On Recent Deletions, movals and threatened ban of lunoor by turin

[Wei Shan Yang]

"If SHM has no issue with his posts being moved then its not your battle Lunnor, only his thus I do not see why its a issue with you."





Hey Wolf, it was Lunoor's post that was moved. She had a poem in the stalking thread where the deletions occurred, and Turin moved her poem to Tone. But Lunoor said that the poem's intent was for stalking, herself and others, in that thread in the stalking forum. So its (the poem's) construction was intended for the place it was intended. Moderators do not always know the intent of the posters, so too much moving of material based on logical deduction (i.e. a poem, or picture is for Tone forum) is not ultimately going to go over well for members who knew their intent when posting material and were contributing to a thread and then have their contribution removed on the grounds of its literary style etc. So, I believe we should not say if its a poem it must be posted in Tone. I like to post poems in the threads where I am moved into writing in prose.

[Wei Shan Yang]

wow we posted one second apart, lol. Ya beat me to it Lun. By just one second though

[Wei Shan Yang]

"I will be taking more of a backseat now, its not my forum and I hear some valid points being made about freewill, so if people want to **** on each other, I will not interfere unless it becomes obscene or threatening or suchlike."



Turin,
First of all, I have not seen people shitting on each other. People are here to communicate their perspective. I know people act mostly of their best intentions, are doing their best. Most here are warriors through and through. Lunoor is certainly one of them. To you she is just complaining, to you I am just complaining. Hmmmmmmm. I think you need to widen your perspective here.



Some forums would support an authoritarian approach "The moderator knows whats best for everyone even if the rest of you can't see it" This forum has always been built on the autonomy of its members. So if you seek to change that dynamic, I think it would not be so easy, which you found out. But to not be able to see your own actions is not going to help you any.



We are moderators, yes, but we too are learning. The reason we are moderators is not because our insights are superior. Its becasue we have a quality to our character to want to help and shape the direction of forums, that its in our nature to be this way. I does not mean we always know what is best, or do our best at all times. It does not mean we can't learn from others who are not moderators.

[Nagual LoneWolf]

Ok I see now how its being seen. We all learn and see and experience. Hopefully we shall learn from this and go on with new insight. Not a easy task for any and all but through discussion I, you, we shall prevail.

[Wei Shan Yang]

Glad you support discussion Wolf. Only then can everything emerge. So thanks for that. I do feel this is nearing resolution if not already there. Yes, we learn and there is never a wrong. Only insights to be gained, by all involved.

[Nagual LoneWolf]

I do agree Lunoor with your comment that if you didn't say anything then it would not have been a issue. To address making a post about a move or delete is not necessary. The mod should send a pm advising the poster of the action though. Turin has advised she has learned from this and we have discussed it. Let me apologize Lunoor for the action. Is there anything further you would like me to do on this issue? Please feel free to copy and paste the poem back to where you had posted it. As I am often gone from being online for a week or more I cannot always catch up to the posts. Yesterday took me three hours just to read posts and messages and respond to them.

[Lunoor]

Wolf, I want this place to be a place where people are still free to make what comments they make in the way they make them: in poetry, prose, short story form etc etc etc and for forms beyond prose to not be limited to being posted in the Tone.



This forum has a history of many inspired and eccentric members with wonderful posts that never would have happened had they been limited to posting in a special forum here. That part of its action and history is one of the many things that has made this place rock for me. Also, sometimes a picture or video posted with a thread is good, a legitimate placing.



I am fine with posts being moved when the forum is being redesigned for example, as you have done when you created new forums and then added some posts from other places to give it some content to get the ball rolling. The thing that bothered me initially when those posts from GS were moved to sorceress was that some of them were insulting to women and ended up in a womens' forum but that was soon righted when some discussion began from them.



I don't agree with you on deleting or moving a post without a public notice regarding the action when such action is taken because of some infraction. If a notice is posted by the moderators and the deletion or move is legitimate most members will understand and be okay with the action but if those actions are taken without such public notice there is more chance of such actions being overused and/or not wielded wisely because the moderator is less publicly accountable that way. Thus members who are not designated moderators can have some say in the integrity of the forum too as they have a chance to speak up if they think something is being unfairly removed or moved.



In most cases, I feel a public reprimand for such posts and a warning given that if further such posts happen by that member they will be deleted or moved is an even better approach allowing for more public scrutiny and moderator accountability, after all, moderators make mistakes too and can benefit from hearing public opinion especially in matters wherein they themselves may not be clear. We all have our issues and sometimes they cloud our judgment.



I thank you for having this forum to deal with issues such as this, it helps keep the integrity of the forum intact and gives members a place to speak their minds on the issues that come up. It shows this forum's strength and helps keep it strong.



I agree that Turin should remain moderator, she deserves a chance to learn and grow as we all do.



I realize that what I ask might make running the forum more time consuming and difficult but I feel it can make it a better place with more member input and participation. In the past some issues have been handled with public warning first, so there is already a precedent set. Worth the effort. These issues don't come up all that often anyway, most members don't make deliberate infractions here.



Thanks Wolf.

[Turin Otzaki]

Lunoor!!! I wish you would stop saying that GS's posts were moved to Sorceress! Grrrrr.

I am sure that I moved most of his pictures OUT of there to Tone and left a few in place where discussions came of them. Its the first thing I did as a moderator.



I was asked initially by LW to be a Moderator....and I said yes since nobody else was doing it at the time and I was getting pissed off by some the **** that was being posted by GS in Sorceress and wanted to know who to complain to!!! Ironic huh lol. I found myself clicking on picture after picture looking for discussion topics and finding pictures instead. It was then I PMd LW to ask who are the moderators here.



I think what you write above is a good suggestion of how to deal with things.

[Lunoor]

Well, I guess it wasn't you who put them there but I am sure most of his posts of jokes and sayings were not in sorceress at first. I am here a lot and I kept seeing them when he put them up over and over in shammanic warrior as I remember it and then I remember seeing them appear in sorceress and being a bit angry about it since some of them were offensive towards women. I don't think my memory is that faulty but it is possible I had daily brain farts for weeks though not very probable. It's more likely that I am wrong about the time period when you became moderator and the posts were moved there before you came back, in fact that makes the utmost sense and would explain why we have different memories of the matter, after all you hadn't been back for very long after your absence from here when you became moderator so you wouldn't have known he initially posted them in shammanic warrior.



Anyhow, it's fine now, you moved them to a good spot and I will drop the sorceress thing, gladly. And I thank you for being open and reconsidering and learning and growing; that takes courage and insight. Thanks Turin.

[Nagual LoneWolf]

Lunoor, Ok let it be that when there is a moderator action such as editing, moving or deleting posts there be a public post made regarding the incident.

[Wei Shan Yang]

GS did not post originally in Sorceress. His posts were in Shamanic Warrior, I don't know why or who moved them, but as moderator of Sorceress I made use of them, so who ever it was that moved them, thank you. But Lunoor is correct on that, they were posted originally in Shamanic Warrior and I observed them get moved one day as I am here nearly every day, but this is all a good thing. GS posts have made so many feel uncomfortable, and its been just that controversial speech that got the warriors off their butts to show how those words he put down could be transformed into new understandings.
Oh, and if my memory serves me correctly, the posts were moved before Turin became moderator. This is a bit harder to remember since its a specific date rather then the actual act of seeing them moved which is easier to recall.



re the moderation method, that sounds good to me too.

[Lunoor]

Yes, thanks folks.

[Guest]

I just read this thread from top to bottom.  I am not really sure why or how I ended up here,  but I just want to say that I feel some good came of this particular conflict, and that, even if some things still remain on the table, I believe this to be a good post for reference concerning future conflicts and possible (probable) resolution.

[Guest]

Nagual LoneWolf wrote:Lunoor, Ok let it be that when there is a moderator action such as editing, moving or deleting posts there be a public post made regarding the incident.
This is what I was talking about.

[Guest]