The Soul

[watergaze]

I am reposting here my posts from 10 May 2014 that I originally wrote somewhere more private:

In shamanism, as I learned, the soul is seen to be divisible. In cases of for example trauma or danger (but also sometimes during joyous events) a part of the soul might leave in order to protect itself and/or protect the whole. Sometimes it does not come back and then one needs to do a soul retrieval. In cases when one knows one is going to experience something harder for oneself (could be surgery, anesthesia, or even travel if one is badly affected by travelling) one can protect oneself so this does not happen.

The soul, as I would understand it now, is luminosity (and at this point I would rather not go into what specifically that means for me).

Shamanism in some sense is a study of the soul. And of course about connecting to spirit, which connects one to the natural way of things.

The soul is an important aspect of being whole.

P.S. Below I talk a bit about soul retrieval and what relates to it, however, I do not provide a how to for soul retrieval (I focus more o preventing losing a part of the soul in certain circumstances like surgery or when known discomfort/suffering if coming up). I might add to it or make another thread for soul retrieval later.

[watergaze]

A few months back I was mentioning to a friend, who was about to go under anaesthesia about this and how to protect oneself, if needed. Interesting was that at that point I did a google search and found plenty on the soul retrieval but not much on how to protect oneself prior to the damage being done. So I wrote the following:

... I did a search in google, but I only find things after the soul had already left. Then you do a soul retrieval (on which there is quite lot of info, you can google it. It tells you how and why it happens, often stuff like "Whether the unconsciousness was caused by you knocking your head, or by having anaesthesia, through ill health or drug abuse, isn't really important. Any form of unconsciousness may trigger soul loss. Part of you is "out" during the unconscious phase anyway, and if you don't return fully, if a part of you stays out, you may end up having permanent soul loss." - http://www.way-of-the-wild-rose.com/sou ... al_26.html - they then offer to help you ).  But one can protect the soul so this does not happen. Sadly, I cannot find anything on this on the net.. The instructions I gave are all there is to it really (of course it would help if you had a shamanic ally/power animal to supervise it and answer your questions along the way if something came up). 
.
I wrote:if you will be under anesthetics during your surgery. If so, there is a sort of shamanic protection for the soul, so that no trauma is involved for it.. one puts the part that would be vulnerable or damaged by it in a safe place before the surgery (anesthetics) and afterwards goes there and takes it back.
If you are interested in doing it, i can tell you how to find an ally, it is very simple, you might even discover you have one already you just did not know that is what it is called .

It is all very simple in itself, you can do it easily. Plus finding a power animal is a very beautiful thing.
It would be good if you had a drum (or a rattle if no drum is around), if somebody could drum for you while you do this.. but it is not a must, just very helpful. If you have a drum or rattle then drum a constant beat and at the end of the travel change the rhythm in some way and be clear this is your coming back signal: we do a few slower beats (4x7) then a succession of fast beats and then a few (7) slower, and becoming more slow, firm energetic beats. There are actually recordings of drumming to help people who dont have a drum or a drumming partner (one can drum for oneself, but one needs to get used to it plus it generally is not the same). 
Also before you go roaming the worlds it is good to have a sort of base..

1. finding your shamanic base
1.1. you close you eyes and go into a meditative state (and you do this for all of the points) and innerly voice your intent: "my intent is to find my beginning place for shamanic travelling" (it is important not to be saying anything random, some of the intents are very specific in their formulation and changing a word or two can have a difference, but of course it is the intent that is most important). 
[here you will find a place that might be in the forest, or a beach by the sea, or in the mountains a hut, it can be just one tree, and it can even be just a specific feeling that you get.. all is valid.. you can ask it "are you my beginning place for shamanic travelling" and it will most probably answer]
1.2. here you do back to our world. Generally this is done by the drum with the return signal. If you do not have a drum or rattle voice your intent. it is like coming from dreaming, you know that .

2. finding your power animal 
(you go into a meditative state a person is drumming)
2.1. you voice your intent to go to your place of beginning shamanic travels (honestly not sure how they call it in English), once you are there
2.2. you voice your intent: "my intent is to go into the lower world"
[here you will either just find yourself there, or you will go down the roots of a tree, dive into water, just spin into the ground etc]
2.3 now you are in the lower world. You voice your intent: "my intent is to find my power animal"
You might just get there and the first thing that comes to you is your power animal.. You always ask: "Are you my power animal?" Then it says either yes or not. If it says yes, you do a sort of check. You ask it to show itself to you from 4 sides. If it does this check it is your power animal... 
If you dont see any animals after you arrive you wait, look around, observe. You might see more animals, you might see beings that are not connected to you too (who will tell you no they are not your power animals or who will not pay attention to you). You can ask them if they know where your power animal is, be civil. They will point you the right way. Dont interact with insects (that is not for beginners, it is not to say one cannot have a bee or an ant as an ally, but it is just not good to do this on your first go, because a lot of insect type stuff could make us ill etc and you dont have an ally to guide you yet and no experience to sort such things out, the experience to know the difference). 
2.4 You found the ally and it answered yes and showed itself to you from 4 sides. Now you know this is your ally. As you understand this and accept it the next steps happens sort of on its own, sometimes you touch, sometimes the ally jumps into you, sometimes you hug, sometimes the ally becomes small and you can hold it in your hand, sometimes you put it into a part of your body.. there are many ways how that can go.. It could bite you for example, dont be scared if that happens. Dont be scared if your shamanic allies tare you apart (though that generally does not happen at first contact, just so you know), it is a powerful healing.
Often you feel a change in your state/feeling when you 'merge' with the ally. You can feel its energy..
2.5. You go back to your shamanic base (you voice your intent to go there), from there you wake up 
-> so now you have your shamanic power animal

3. protecting the soul before anesthetics
3.1. you go to your shamanic base (you inwardly voice your intent to go there)
3.2. you tell your ally your intent is to protect yourself, your soul before anesthetics and during surgery. That if any part of it would be negatively impacted by it that you want to protect it. You see what happens.
often the part of the soul looks like a bird or a butterfly, but might be anything. The power animal might lead you to where the soul is, or the soul might just appear in front of you at your shamanic base. 
The ally will tell you what to do or you will just feel what is right to do, if you have any uncertainties you ask your animal. 
[for example you can have an object that is a part of your soul and you can out it in a jewel box and keep it at your shamanic base, or hide it in a hollow of a tree, in a pond etc]
3.3. You go back to your base and then you wake up. (when you have another drummer you usually set up a time frame, like drum for 30-45 min and then the drummer does the return signal, it calls you from the travels and before waking up, the signal is long enough for that, you first go to to your beginning place and from there you wake up. The beginning place is here a sort of buffer in this sense, so that the transition into waking is more smooth)

4. after surgery when you are already recovered from it a bit (you can ask your animal when is the right time) you go back to the place where you hid the soul and you bring it back to yourself, you might swallow it, merge with it, who knows . All this is very open how it happens. 

(you see that you could also do just the soul part, you are intuitive enough to do it, but having a power animal is a very nice experience )

====
the theory behind this is that the soul is divisible. In cases of trauma or danger a part of the soul might leave in order to protect itself and/or protect the whole. Sometimes it does not come back and then one needs to do a soul retrieval.

quoted from the same site:
Soul Loss is a protection mechanism which serves to protect us from unbearable suffering. In the normal course of events the soul piece should return automatically after a few hours or a day or two -- but unfortunately often it does not. In those cases the soul piece has become permanently lost in the Otherworld and is either unable or unwilling to return. 

The leaving part of your soul looks exactly like you at that time. It is an exact copy of you at that age and time. So if you lost a part of your soul at age 8 years, this part of you will still be an 8 year old, while you may now be in your forties! The lost piece of your soul also takes a piece of your energy body with it, leaving a permanent hole in your aura. ...
Unfortunately this hole in your aura will also leave you susceptible to entities, demons and psychic attack, combining the suffering of soul loss with suffering from entities. An intact aura can ward these negatives off, but once you have suffered soul loss you don't have an intact aura anymore. You are now easy game for any entity happening to be around.

[watergaze]

the last quote says that the lots soul fragment looks exactly like the person at that time, how it is an exact copy of the person at that age and time. This may or may not be fitting to a concrete experience. As I have seen it, the soul fragment in the retrieval journey can take a more symbolic aspect too, for example it could be seen as a butterfly or a bird, etc. And I have seen it as the quote describes, but not only, so just wanted to point that out. Just be open to whatever comes.

Years ago, when I was first asked by a friend to do a soul retrieval for him, I had no idea about it, but I asked my allies and they told me what to do (this is why it is good to have them around). One can find courses on how to do soul retrievals, they are provided for example by the Foundation for Shamanic Studies (in America and Europe). 
The way I was guided to do it for another person was to breathe the soul fragment that I had gotten on my travel into the body of the other person. First into the heart area and second into the top of the head (facing that area straight on). When I did it for myself I did not breathe into myself hehe, I embraced, absorbed, merged with the soul fragment.

Although it often works better if one does not do the soul retrieval themselves, I did soul retrieval for myself and I have seen good results of that (it could be harder to do though and maybe in some cases it might not work - for all I know). In the mentioned example of my friend, when I did the soul retrieval for him I could see and also told him what I saw connected to the soul leaving (after which he told me the background, and that was interesting to me for sure, especially since this was one of the first links/results between shamanic travels and real tangible reality stuff, amazing).

For me I find it is a good method to combine with self-stalking and recap. The hardest soul retrieval I did for myself were very similar to CC's recap. I just did not sit and move my head left right. The hardest I say because it took me a few tries and visits to get it done, it took some changes inside me before the soul fragment returned for good (and that took some time) - it might also be that if someone else had done it for me that the process would be faster, no way to know really.

2 things are of note:
1) Do not force the soul fragment to come back. Negotiate with it, ask it what it would like, talk to it. Remind it where it has a home and that you miss it etc. (you can also ask your allies for help on what to do, what to say, what to offer, etc)
2) Just getting the soul fragment back might not do it (in the long run). If the person does not change the behavior or circumstances that led the soul fragment to leave then it will leave again. One should not only help get the soul back, but also look into how to take care of it in the transition and future.

Why does the soul fragment not come back?

As mentioned above, the soul fragment left for the protection of the whole (it is a matter of survival). And the soul does return spontaneously in many cases. Sometimes the situation/circumstances that caused it to leave last longer/too long, or some circumstances have a very strong force, the person after the incident is such that the return is not possible (the soul keeps away for protection), to sum it up in general I have no clue (in some cases this info might pop up, and then it is obviously situation specific). What I do know is that the soul fragment could to an extent forget about the whole and/or get lost. And it might also be scared or rather reluctant to come back. So it might need some convincing, negotiation, reminding of home/whole (but do not put this in there, very often it is an easy process and the soul fragment is very happy to go back right away to where it belongs)

I have a vague notion of some things I have yet to explore or come across.. for example linked to freezing and I have also heard about soul fragments leaving unnaturally.

[watergaze]

A paper by Christiane Horst called The Ancient Art of Shamanic Soul Retrieval that I found on the web on this topic:

http://www.creativespirit.net/learners/ ... -horst.pdf  [sadly the link is outdated and the article is no longer found there. Full bibliography on the article is: "Horst, Christiane. The Ancient Art of Shamanic Soul Retrieval: Use and Therapeutic After-Effects in Modern Psychological Practice. Atlantic University, March 2017."]

I have not read it all, just the part about soul loss and soul retrieval (part 4.2)

reading (I did not find what I was looking for, but) I was reminded of what is there called Soul Remembering:
In rare cases, I have to bring back a soul part that has rather been more forgotten than lost. Sandra Ingerman who was taught this technique by her own power animal calls it ‘soul remembering’. This term refers to the fact that once, upon birth, the soul knew about her task and goal for the life-to-be, while during the process of delving more and more into this world of matter, with other people telling her what and how to be, she starts to forget her original intention. 
 
Usually this forgotten essence will be displayed as a symbol, for example a specific flower, or the image of an apple tree blossoming over and over. As it serves as a reminder of the client’s core essence and her/his most important strength, I encourage her/him to get a picture of the symbol or draw it herself/himself.

[watergaze]

So, that above I wrote c. 4 years ago. I did another search just now, here is some info on one website about:
soul loss: http://www.sharedwisdom.com/page/soul-loss
soul retrieval: http://www.sharedwisdom.com/page/soul-retrieval

[watergaze]

Anyone interested in soul retrieval can start with Sandra Ingerman's book called (duh) Soul Retrieval . Sandra Ingerman, I hope, is not someone that needs an introduction

[Kaomea]

I like this topic and the discussion flowing from it.  The ideas are good.  

My two-cents on souls is that they will protect themselves when their temporary shell, the body, becomes inhabitable.  The soul, to me, is this mega mass collective of many lifetimes.  This lifetime can benefit from the soul knowledge, if accessed correctly (if this lifetime experience achieves alignment of the mind and body, spirit becomes accessible).  

Our spirit/soul knows a lot.  Imagine knowing things you don't know.  Being guided by a higher power that is the soul.  You.  It's beautiful.  I view soul retrieval as achieving alignment.  I find it's important to know, too, that sometimes opening the door to past knowledge may not be helpful for this lifetime.  There's a reason we don't remember it all... and ideally we don't need the experiences of our other lives to help this life.  

I know it might seem like more knowledge the better, but sometimes learning a lot, really fast, is bad.  Having access to an extra lifetime or many lifetimes, all at once, can cause trauma.  There's a lot of strong and likely conflicting emotions and beliefs involved with the process.  Cognitive dissonance, or the inability to mentally cope with conflicting ideas, can cause the mind to break.  

Yes, one should explore past lives.  Slowly.  And with a great deal of love and understanding for the lifetimes one has experienced.  It's a journey one should take into oneself.

[Kaomea]

Also, Shamanka is a past life expert. She does them for people and I thought to ask her for help in doing that years ago, but doing that over Skype made me uncomfortable.  I was concerned about losing my internet connection mid session while in a receptive state.  Could be sketchy.  I was nervous.

Anyway.  If that's something you're interested in she might have something beneficial to offer in terms of guidance.  If speaking to her directly is bothersome to you, she might even have a YouTube video out.  

Good luck!

[watergaze]

Interesting how you link soul to past lives. It might be interesting to hear your experiences with this and how you came to see this. 

I myself would not be so hasty to make this link between soul and past lives as I do not have the direct experience to back it up. I do not see this link as of yet. And in terms of belief I find it more practical to do it CC style - it's now or never. It makes some sense to me that we live multiple lifetimes, sure, but I kinda prefer to think of it like parallel realities - that we can access for example in dreams/altered awareness. I read something where they were calling it connecting to our oversoul. Seeing/becoming aware of other parts of ourselves. It does not necessarily have to be a thing of the past though. My jury is still out on that one . I mean why jump to conclusions? It could just as well be a thing of one lifetime. How would we know? 

Anyway, in case you'd like to share some of your know-how and experience about past lives it would be cool if you made a thread for it (so we have it nice and organized) . You can even link to some of the videos if you find them helpful.

[Kaomea]

Time is relative so in one sense we are linear but at the same time also non linear.  It is easier to conceptualize time in a linear sense because it gives a point of reference.  When I mention time feel free to perceive it in either linear or non linear.  

The soul is the collective experience we've had, are having, and will have.  Think of them as past lives or parallel lives either perception is true.  

When I feel ready to write up my soul adventures and how I came to my beliefs, I'll share it. 

All that said, trial and error is how I know my own soul.  We each come into our truth and sight in our own time.  Some spend lifetimes never learning the past or the future.  Some manage to figure it out.  The ones who do usually don't openly share themselves except with very close family.  

Each soul, who takes a body, is like a box.  Each box holds secrets.  Not everyone opens their box those who open their box expand their perception in beautiful ways.  Open the box.

I don't need Shamanka's videos at the moment. I pointed to her as a known expert in that area, since you're working on that stuff.

[watergaze]

It is not actually me who is working on this stuff right now, I shared this for the benefit of someone else. (edit: I almost never share things here in the public parts for reasons such as me working on them.) Of course, that is just a detail and not all too important, the soul is not something I will ever be uninterested in. So, thank you for your contribution to the topic .

[Kaomea]

Audience does make a difference for my glorious storytelling skills.  For that person, I'll add that our souls are infinite.  We meet others at the level we've met ourselves.  One cannot go outward without first knowing what is within.  Inside first, outside second.  In order to understand another's soul, one must first understand it in themselves.  

I don't know why people struggle with the soul retrieval thing.  It's just a matter of holding a space for the self.  Like Serloco said many times: build a gourd. The soul will come if there is space for it to fill.  One must have room in the mind and the heart for the soul to occupy.  If we are already full, the soul must live outside the body.  We must empty out some of our mind and heart to make room for the soul.  Empty meaning becoming more flexible or fluid in cognition and emotions.  

I'm willing to share more depending on the audience.  If that person wants more of an explanation they are invited to post here

[Kaomea]

Seriously tho, should retrieval is a great topic. There's so much that could be discussed. It's a very emotional topic in that when we incorporate the soul or invite it back into us, we are emotionally vulnerable. We must love it for it to stay. We must also acknowledge that we were hostile to ourselves and that is why it fragmented. It doesn't fragment from others. We fragment it by not treating ourselves with kindness and love. Mantras and affirmations can help foster self love and self acceptance. The fragmented soul needs to learn to say fck everyone else. I love the person I am. Imperfections and all.

The fragmented soul benefits from a lot of self-care. Glob it on thick. Do things that make them feel good, higher vibrations type of things.

A good place to start. Not the only things one could try

[Kaomea]

Oh! I found a song to demonstrate the AP to be held while healing the soul.



To be blunt, while the soul is healing the attitude should be a protective one. Boundaries need to be upheld to limit access and that may come off as c*nty or a$$hole behavior. BUT! it's important to only allow loving energy in during the wholeness phase. Be an a$$hole. Set limits. Say no to stressful situations. Protect the soul, be its guardian, and it will guide you. If you lose friends over it, who cares. Do what's appropriate for your own well being because only then can you provide the strength necessary to carry others.

I really do love this topic.

It's basically a lesson in caring for the self. Loving all the parts of ourselves and saying fck anyone who doesn't like it. It's a great opportunity. Liberating.

[Kaomea]

The nice thing about having a fragmented soul is that when it's  healed/united the result is stronger than a person who hasn't had a fragmented soul.  I guess it's similar to blacksmithing.  Melting and hardening makes for a very strong vessel.  The melting is an opportunity to mold.  

The birth of a new person rises from such fire.  Not a process to deliberately engage, but when thrown into it...make the most of it?

It's what I do.  I'm a little addicted to the destructive cycle of rebirthing myself.  I'm happy with my results.  I did lose friends along the way, but if people don't like me, it's ok.  I haz peeps who love me.  The real friends let me be me.  The ones I lose are always the ones hoping I'll fit into their box  it's sweet but unnecessary.

I know.  I had a lot to say.  I think I'm done now.

[Kaomea]

This is why the process and experiences related to fragmented souls is so personal.  It's often painful emotions to overcome and so it's expected to be shared with those we trust.  

Asking someone how they learned of their soul or their experiences with having a fragmented soul is not the same thing as asking someone what time it is or what what flavor leopard they enjoy.  

Emotional stories are entrusted to people who love and will hold a space for that sharing.  

I don't just ask people about their life trauma in the middle of a business meeting.  There's a time and place.  I also would only ask people I'm close to or responsible for.  

Being sensitive to others is important.  It's part of being mindful.  

Ok.  Now I'm done.
I eagerly await a response I was a bit wordy. It happens.

[watergaze]

Kao, thank you for sharing the above words linked to the topic of the soul. I find it is great if an interested person can read things from different sources/perspectives. It gives the thing more shades and dimensions or flavors than if only one person were to say something. Especially if two quite different people agree on something, it can also show that the thing itself is more objective or has more merit/usefulness/etc than if it were only able to reach a certain type of people. But this is just as a side point .

--- Empty Space
Kaomea wrote:It's just a matter of holding a space for the self.  Like Serloco said many times: build a gourd. The soul will come if there is space for it to fill.  One must have room in the mind and the heart for the soul to occupy.  If we are already full, the soul must live outside the body.  We must empty out some of our mind and heart to make room for the soul.  Empty meaning becoming more flexible or fluid in cognition and emotions. 
What you say about the inside and outside rings very true in my experience. I think it is one of the basic facts of life. A very important core principle of our reality/lives. 
There are two basic approaches, that link to this topic imo, in sorcery / warriorship / getting to know: 1) I know/understand myself because I have come to know/understand others.  2) I know others because I have known myself . Both work.

(Before I respond to this great point that you bring to the forefront here, I would like to just mention a few words of practically oriented caution linked to this empty gourd business hehe. Namely, it is not good to have spaces in us that are empty for longer periods of time. It is not just our soul that could find a place there. Other things try to get in. The shaman suggested to us once that after we have made space it is good to place something there, for example 'river' , instead of leaving it empty. )

Kao, mentioning empty space, you bring a very good point to the forefront here. This seems to be repeated by practitioners that one might need to make space for the returned soul. Taking this into a specific direction, it is not uncommon that a shaman / healer first has to do an extraction healing before they can return the soul. (Extraction is a whole other topic though that too would be great to explore. One of the forms of extraction that one hears about in link to shamanism is when the traditional shamans actually take out tangible physical objects/stuff from the body of the sick.)


---- Vulnerability and Protecting oneself
Kao wrote:when we incorporate the soul or invite it back into us, we are emotionally vulnerable.
Yes, the person who suffers from soul loss is more vulnerable. The process of integration might need some readjusting and that could make us vulnerable and/or less stable too.


.
Kao wrote:We must love it for it to stay. We must also acknowledge that we were hostile to ourselves and that is why it fragmented. It doesn't fragment from others. We fragment it by not treating ourselves with kindness and love. Mantras and affirmations can help foster self love and self acceptance. The fragmented soul needs to learn to say fck everyone else. I love the person I am. Imperfections and all.
The fragmented soul benefits from a lot of self-care. Glob it on thick. Do things that make them feel good, higher vibrations type of things. 

A good place to start. Not the only things one could try
Great points to mention. Thank you

.
Kao wrote:To be blunt, while the soul is healing the attitude should be a protective one. Boundaries need to be upheld to limit access and that may come off as c*nty or a$$hole behavior. BUT! it's important to only allow loving energy in during the wholeness phase. Be an a$$hole. Set limits. Say no to stressful situations. Protect the soul, be its guardian, and it will guide you. If you lose friends over it, who cares. Do what's appropriate for your own well being because only then can you provide the strength necessary to carry others.
I find the topic of healthy boundaries a crucial one for the overall wellbeing of souls in general (not just during the soul retrieval period). I do not think one needs to be so one dimensional, it is not like we can't go outside and live our lives during the process of incorporating a lost part of our soul. But it would be great if overall our sensitivity towards the settings we are in and places we interact would be increased what concernes our well-being. it is good to ask the soul what it needs. Like Kao says: the soul will guide you. During the process of soul recovery and return it is common to ask the soul if there is anything it needs to help the process be successful. And then ofc to check on it now and then if there is anything needed later. it is great to check on the soul like this in general . One should always be protective of this very gentle and sensitive part of themselves. But there is no need to be an a-hole or a c-unt to others in order to achieve it. But if it is needed then sure . But this goes for all life situations. . 

One thing that might be useful to point out is that the part of the soul that left might have carried off a part of our pain, trauma, etc. And when it comes back it would be good to not be surprised or discouraged if certain feelings emerge that one had not felt for a while. It really is about accepting oneself. Like Kao says it is "a lesson in caring for the self. Loving all parts of ourselves." Of course, no hard to bear feelings may come at all . Sometimes also memories come back that could be painful or wonderful. 
One thing that was quite the epiphany for me back in the day was that a part of our soul can leave during things that are really actually wonderful and nice to feel. For example, it could be that we have a wish / dream to live on an island surrounded by wonderful azure seas... and this is such a strong desire... ofc course in this scenario we live in some slum and barely have the money to go to the next town. In this imaginary scenario a soul part might go off into that dream of the island. To give another example, sometimes we let a part of our soul leave or follow people we admire. It could be even someone we don't properly know but who is famous - like a football star we come to see at the stadium. The shaman once said that people come to the show cause they wanna see their souls. Quite disturbing if you think about it. This is not to say famous people are evil or any such thing. It really is about what happens in our own selves. And to a degree ofc some things are supported by the culture we live in (if by nothing else than by the sheer ignorance about it all).

[watergaze]

Kao wrote:The nice thing about having a fragmented soul is that when it's  healed/united the result is stronger than a person who hasn't had a fragmented soul.
This links to the self-healed healer thingy . Imo one does not have to be broken first in order to be whole, fluid, healthy,  etc. But in order to have the strength required and to understand what is going on and in that way to be able to help others, it is probably crucial. Maybe such a person is indeed always stronger than a person who did not go through such experiences - however let us not glorify this (saying this just in case someone reading this might have these urges) because it might be that in order to make it past the eagle (so to speak) one might not need that necessarily in their life. I have come to understand that it is best to always only ask for what one needs. Everything else is unecessary. Of course, I think it might be impossible to find anyone in this lifetime who has not had some kind of wound, hardship, trauma, etc experience during their lives. But just saying, in theory, it is imo best not to wish to be fragmeneted just so one can heal. Somewhow our culture has this idea that things need to be hard and that there needs to be a lot of suffering and that is imo a load of **** that we are injected with when we are helpless and cannot defend against this BS principle. It then shapes our experiences and our lives and creates a lot of sorrow/hardship in lives. And then others look at it and even glorify it. Best to be rid of these prinsicples behind glorifed martyrdom. 

So, yea, totally agree here:
Kao wrote:The birth of a new person rises from such fire.  Not a process to deliberately engage, but when thrown into it...make the most of it?
.
Kao wrote:It's what I do.  I'm a little addicted to the destructive cycle of rebirthing myself.
This makes a lot of sense hehe. I find that if this is your path that leads to growth and learning then it is amazing. 

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Kao wrote:This is why the process and experiences related to fragmented souls is so personal.  It's often painful emotions to overcome and so it's expected to be shared with those we trust. 
Indeed, this is true of any spiritual or deeply emotional experience. What you write, Kao, is common sense and it surely should be said. It links again to boundaries. Some people don't have them in strangely vulnerable places. Sharing something that one should not or is not ready to share is usually not a good thing. 

It is not the case though that a wonderful and helpful sharing cannot occur between strangers or outside of the "people who love and hold a space for that sharing". As they say, those that are least lovable need love most. After one has processed these experiences and they are no longer wounds or scars left behind then, once one has crossed a certain threshold, one can share. And of course it is best to share in this style when one has omens from Spirit to do so. The world is then a magical place.

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Kao wrote:Asking someone how they learned of their soul or their experiences with having a fragmented soul is not the same thing as asking someone what time it is or what what flavor leopard they enjoy. 
I'd say use your common sense! In my language it is called "healthy sense", cause sadly it is not always as common as one might like .
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Kao wrote:I don't just ask people about their life trauma in the middle of a business meeting.  There's a time and place.  I also would only ask people I'm close to or responsible for. 
Again, use your common/healthy sense. In normal life situations, I rarely breach the subject until a person themselves decides to speak on the topic - kinda like Kao did here in the thread . If someone starts talking about it without you asking them to or addressing them specifically it means they either want/have things to say on the subject or for other reasons would benefit from putting their attention in this direction. Still, it is always the case that one needs to be very sensitive about this topic and anything that touches on the soul. 

And, yes, be sensitive to others . Howgh!

[Kaomea]

That was pretty to read

I thought it interesting that you brought up a filler to avoid having an empty space. Yes, I suppose extractions are a consequence of being empty, then filled by an unwanted energy.

That's a neat concept too.

I agree, it is better to use something to occupy the space as a placeholder. A river is a neat idea, something natural that provides movement of energy. Keeps the space fresh

Since you brought up extractions, I'll bring up possession. Yes, sometimes we are possessed by an unwanted energy. However, sometimes we accidentally slip into unwanted energies. Sometimes we're possessed and sometimes we do the possessing. Empaths are very prone to inhabiting the energetic body, AP, of those they are understanding or "seeing into". Psychics and their many varieties need to use caution when seeing into others because there are some people who are so different than our AP that it breaks our AP. Case in point: for those of us who aren't psychopaths, if we engage a really nasty one and accidentally slip into their AP (merely by looking or gazing) we see and feel really strong foreign energetic patterns. In extreme and very rare cases this overwhelms the psychic... damaging their own AP. In these situations an extraction isn't necessary because the psychic went into another. Healing becomes a matter of coping with the experience of what was seen, remembered, and felt. Some inexperienced seers may mistake the experience as something within them they unlocked. That's not it. It was that they were too efficient and saw straight into the AP of their target.

Ideally no one ever makes a slip like that. You don't really know what's too much until you find it. Then it knocks you on your a$$ and it takes a hot second to recover from it.

This soul stuff is crazy weird.

[Kaomea]

Oh, I guess I should add a footnote. When I referred to a "really nasty psychopth" I don't mean to imply that is bad and healers are good.

In this case I'm associating the empath with also being a healer.

A really nasty psychopath is just someone who is very different than a healer. In a black and white world one is good and the other is evil. But I think many forget that evil also carries their own history and reason for holding their given AP. It doesn't excuse the "evil" behavior they commit, but that population has almost always been a victim too.

Having researched serial killers and psychopaths I've learned many people have failed them before they became the monster they ended up as. They are a result of a very flawed system, culture, and society. It doesn't justify perpetuating crimes against others, but I hope that people understand that monsters are created, not born. They were made. By us.

:/

Interestingly, I bet those monsters think that we're monsters. There are people who have been dubbed "good" by society who turn out to be committed to doing harm unto others. Failure to act to prevent harm to others is harmful too.

So in this wonky world of labels, good and evil are just subjective terms that are slapped onto individuals based on the limited belief system us humans utilize. They are whatever.

Anyway, nasty psychopath and healer are just two sides of the coin. Both bring balance, but they are different and that difference makes it really uncomfortable for either to switch sides should they "see" the other.

I imagine the response to be along the lines of, "What the bloody fck is this sht?! My brain, my heart, I can't fcking, no, ahhhhhh the pain!" It hurts to do a sudden swap with a polar opposite.

That's why we don't "see" everyone. It shifts us. Those with a lot of pain can be unbearable to experience. A person could learn to tolerate more, in order to connect with tortured APs, but it can hurt to build that tolerance. When you can't see someone it's not because they're good at hiding or a master of shamanism. It's typically that they are in so much pain that you can't even touch it without searing your own awareness. It's self preservation that your spirit can't see it. Tho it may see parts and with enough parts a portrait may be revealed.

Anyway. A fragmented soul could result from seeing something you aren't quite prepared for. Baby steps are nice

Trying to see a tortured soul is not appropriate for most. Don't do it unless it's your job or your passion (e.g. healers). Otherwise, there's no real reason to fully explore that variety of reality.

On a grander level, healers can't heal what they don't understand. Trying to understand a tortured soul can be dangerous. I would say do what makes sense to you and your situation.

[Kaomea]

I find it nice to remember that when we fracture our soul due to forcing our ability to "see" what it's not prepared to see, it is from a place of deep love. We gave enough of a sht to truly see and understand someone we weren't ready for. We shouldn't do it purposefully, but should it happen, know that it takes a great degree of love, awareness, and intent to achieve that sight. Sadly, the reward of that effort is earning a tortured yourself.

But it adds dimension and character...if it doesn't kill you. So I guess there's that.

[Kaomea]

That's a weird way to leave readers. Let me try again.

For a group of warriors, developing sight is a skill commonly sought after. Seeing people similar to ourselves is easier than seeing those who are different than ourselves. Seeing a polar opposite is a deathly terrifying experience. Exercise caution. The mind is likely to burst so have safety nets in place.

In the event of an emergency, don't panic. What you saw isn't you, but you're affected as though you experienced it yourself. Seamless integration into another awareness is like virtual reality on steroids. It's a top level skill that should be done under proper supervision.

All that said, that skill is a hobby for warriors. That's shamanism. That's what we each signed up for. Can it suck? Definitely. Is it worth it? Maybe. Does it help us make it past the eagle?! I don't even know what the eagle is symbolic for! I don't know guys! All I know is shamanism is weird sht. I toy with it. It can be groovy. I know some magic tricks. It makes me a fascinating person to know. But would I reccomend people to do this? H3ll no!

Some of it leads to fractured souls. The soul isn't even recognized as a legit thing in the field of science. We're risking breaking something that can't be fixed by any health plan approved medical providers. That's insane in itself!

We're adventuring into areas that officially don't exist. We risk parts of ourselves that we aren't officially in possession of. We're doing all of this with social science degrees and hoping no one gets eaten by a symbolic eagle.

We sound fcking retarded.

But we explore anyway.

Are we better people for it? Lol. Depends who we ask.

At the end it's all figureoutable. If you're out there doing this then we need to group up with people who have done this too. Numbers increase survivability. Push away idiots, embrace real healers. Know the difference.

Ok, this was somehow better, right?