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I have been reading Castenda's books for a couple of years in a quest to find out more about what happens after death. Not saying that everything I read has the truth but his books has some truth in it.
Im working on a screenplay involving aspects of sorcery but my own journey is to find the truth is equally important. I have been reading what's been said on death and I wondered. Why is it so important to survive after death? If your awareness gets transferred to the universe (as I have interpreted it, you loose your identity?)
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Hi trinsic
Love that you are writing a screenplay, care to tell some more about it?
The afterlife thing.. well to me it seems that Carlos writes about, becoming an immortal - like some taoist sage. Or to escape the cycle of reincarnation, through self-realization/enlightenment.
Either way I'm not so sure if it is good or bad.
What I do like is that there are people around that report encountering the spirit of Don Juan and others from the party and that they provide teaching.
This is really cool and very tradition, you know the spirits of old masters teaching and guiding in dreaming or in altered stated of awareness.
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trinsic wrote:
I have been reading Castenda's books for a couple of years in a quest to find out more about what happens after death. Not saying that everything I read has the truth but his books has some truth in it.
Im working on a screenplay involving aspects of sorcery but my own journey is to find the truth is equally important. I have been reading what's been said on death and I wondered. Why is it so important to survive after death? If your awareness gets transferred to the universe (as I have interpreted it, you loose your identity?)
One of the things don Juan said that originally caught my attention many years ago was that... when a man leaves this world in the manner of a sorcerer, he can take his awareness with him. That's a paraphrase, but generally accurate.
The way I see it is that an "ordinary man" (a non-sorcerer) gives up his awareness to the eagle at the moment of death. That awareness is shredded and returns to the cosmos to go through the infinite cycles of life, rebirth, death, and so on.
Someone who dies with awareness (a sorcerer) has the ability to "slip past the eagle to be free." Depending on how one interprets this (and there are lots of interpretations around these parts), that generally translates to keeping one's awareness (and identities) in some manner of eternal existence. My personal interpretation is that we transfer our awareness into our double (the energy/dreaming body) instead of giving up our awareness to the eagle. The double is the key to survival beyond the threshold of "death".
D
http://www.quantumshaman.com
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trinsic wrote:I have been reading Castenda's books for a couple of years in a quest to find out more about what happens after death. Not saying that everything I read has the truth but his books has some truth in it.
Im working on a screenplay involving aspects of sorcery but my own journey is to find the truth is equally important. I have been reading what's been said on death and I wondered. Why is it so important to survive after death? If your awareness gets transferred to the universe (as I have interpreted it, you loose your identity?)
The cosmos creates experience, one type of experience is to be a singularity, the experience of being separate from the eagle. If a singularity does not grow, beyond a certain threshold energetically it remains in cyclic existence. Nothing wrong with that. The eagle has also provided an avenue to move out of the cyclic experience, and create perpetual singularities that do not forget themselves within the infinity of experiences available within the emanations at large. To do this is to one must amp up energy enough move out of the intent of the first attention. It's not really something I would describe as important, its just another possibility a game we can play.
As far a truth, that is a moving target, that changes, depending on perspectives, and energy levels of the observers.
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Mornings Son wrote:Hi trinsic
Love that you are writing a screenplay, care to tell some more about it?
The afterlife thing.. well to me it seems that Carlos writes about, becoming an immortal - like some taoist sage. Or to escape the cycle of reincarnation, through self-realization/enlightenment.
Either way I'm not so sure if it is good or bad.
What I do like is that there are people around that report encountering the spirit of Don Juan and others from the party and that they provide teaching.
This is really cool and very tradition, you know the spirits of old masters teaching and guiding in dreaming or in altered stated of awareness.
Its a modern adaptation of Andrei Tarkovsky's "Stalker" and The PC Game "Stalker - Shadows of Chernobyl". Its in its early research stages.http://stalker-exclusion-zone.tumblr.com/ contains some concept art and a synopsis of the plot.Do you mean that Don Juan visits people in spirit from what some of the other people told you? That would be good to experience.
The cosmos creates experience, one type of experience is to be a
singularity, the experience of being separate from the eagle. If a
singularity does not grow, beyond a certain threshold energetically it
remains in cyclic existence. Nothing wrong with that. The eagle has also
provided an avenue to move out of the cyclic experience, and create
perpetual singularities that do not forget themselves within the
infinity of experiences available within the emanations at large. To do
this is to one must amp up energy enough move out of the intent of the
first attention. It's not really something I would describe as
important, its just another possibility a game we can play.As far a truth, that is a moving target, that changes, depending on perspectives, and energy levels of the observers. Yeah good point truth is depending on my level of awareness.One of the things don Juan said that originally caught my attention many
years ago was that... when a man leaves this world in the manner of a
sorcerer, he can take his awareness with him. That's a paraphrase, but
generally accurate.The way I see it is that an "ordinary man" (a
non-sorcerer) gives up his awareness to the eagle at the moment of
death. That awareness is shredded and returns to the cosmos to go
through the infinite cycles of life, rebirth, death, and so on.Someone
who dies with awareness (a sorcerer) has the ability to "slip past the
eagle to be free." Depending on how one interprets this (and there are
lots of interpretations around these parts), that generally translates
to keeping one's awareness (and identities) in some manner of eternal
existence. My personal interpretation is that we transfer our
awareness into our double (the energy/dreaming body) instead of giving
up our awareness to the eagle. The double is the key to survival beyond
the threshold of "death". I wonder why Don Juan decided to leave and not come back. I have read all of the books and never understood that.I am working with magical passes but the biggest problem i have is not staying consistant with my practices, if anyone had any advise for that it would be helpful.
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I loved the Stalker movie, but not the game so much. A bit to difficult in (the many) battle, but it is intense! I would have loved it with much less action.
It is a cool idea IMO that you got. Good luck with it.
Don Juan have been reported seen by a few I know. I meet him too (maybe), how can one be sure? I did not make tests, but went for the wisdom of the words, rather that 'oh it Don Juan'. It might well have been an entity that used a 'Don Juan' mask to get the message(teaching) through to me.
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trinsic1 wrote:
One of the things don Juan said that originally caught my attention many years ago was that... when a man leaves this world in the manner of a sorcerer, he can take his awareness with him. That's a paraphrase, but generally accurate.The way I see it is that an "ordinary man" (a non-sorcerer) gives up his awareness to the eagle at the moment of death. That awareness is shredded and returns to the cosmos to go through the infinite cycles of life, rebirth, death, and so on.Someone who dies with awareness (a sorcerer) has the ability to "slip past the eagle to be free." Depending on how one interprets this (and there are lots of interpretations around these parts), that generally translates to keeping one's awareness (and identities) in some manner of eternal existence. My personal interpretation is that we transfer our awareness into our double (the energy/dreaming body) instead of giving up our awareness to the eagle. The double is the key to survival beyond the threshold of "death". I wonder why Don Juan decided to leave and not come back. I have read all of the books and never understood that.I am working with magical passes but the biggest problem i have is not staying consistant with my practices, if anyone had any advise for that it would be helpful.The question is... was "Don Juan" ever really "here" at all? My personal theory at this point, after many years of being on this path, is that don Juan was actually the double and alter-ego of Carlos himself. Carlos was clever enough to play the fool and have us all believing it - but by the time he COULD have revealed the "deception", he was ass-deep in criticism about other aspects of his work, and to reveal that he himself was don Juan... would not have played well in the midwest, as the old saying goes. Bottom line - it really doesn't matter whether don Juan was a flesh-and-blood human being, or the double of Carlos personified into his own personality. I've experienced my double as both (solid flesh and blood, and the higher-self personified). What matters is that the teachings are real, wherever they came from - as anyone who really does The Work will discover. I know a lot of armchair philosophers who like to sit around and debate the veracity of don Juan, the "truth" of Castaneda's teachings, and many end up bitter and disenfranchised - largely because they are spending their time debating rather than DO-ing.
As for the magical passes... I don't really find them to be helpful in the least. They are, for the most part, martial arts kata re-dressed and sold as "tensegrity". If it works for you, that's cool, but mopping the floor, doing the dishes or raking the yard are all just as effective as "not-doings". I don't say that to be critical of tensegrity, but as someone who studied martial arts actively for 15 years, I can say there is value in the discipline, but the movements themselves are only as "magical" as the practitioner. You are the magic.
D
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quantumshaman wrote:trinsic1 wrote:
One of the things don Juan said that originally caught my attention many years ago was that... when a man leaves this world in the manner of a sorcerer, he can take his awareness with him. That's a paraphrase, but generally accurate.The way I see it is that an "ordinary man" (a non-sorcerer) gives up his awareness to the eagle at the moment of death. That awareness is shredded and returns to the cosmos to go through the infinite cycles of life, rebirth, death, and so on.Someone who dies with awareness (a sorcerer) has the ability to "slip past the eagle to be free." Depending on how one interprets this (and there are lots of interpretations around these parts), that generally translates to keeping one's awareness (and identities) in some manner of eternal existence. My personal interpretation is that we transfer our awareness into our double (the energy/dreaming body) instead of giving up our awareness to the eagle. The double is the key to survival beyond the threshold of "death". I wonder why Don Juan decided to leave and not come back. I have read all of the books and never understood that.I am working with magical passes but the biggest problem i have is not staying consistant with my practices, if anyone had any advise for that it would be helpful.The question is... was "Don Juan" ever really "here" at all? My personal theory at this point, after many years of being on this path, is that don Juan was actually the double and alter-ego of Carlos himself. Carlos was clever enough to play the fool and have us all believing it - but by the time he COULD have revealed the "deception", he was ass-deep in criticism about other aspects of his work, and to reveal that he himself was don Juan... would not have played well in the midwest, as the old saying goes. Bottom line - it really doesn't matter whether don Juan was a flesh-and-blood human being, or the double of Carlos personified into his own personality. I've experienced my double as both (solid flesh and blood, and the higher-self personified). What matters is that the teachings are real, wherever they came from - as anyone who really does The Work will discover. I know a lot of armchair philosophers who like to sit around and debate the veracity of don Juan, the "truth" of Castaneda's teachings, and many end up bitter and disenfranchised - largely because they are spending their time debating rather than DO-ing.
As for the magical passes... I don't really find them to be helpful in the least. They are, for the most part, martial arts kata re-dressed and sold as "tensegrity". If it works for you, that's cool, but mopping the floor, doing the dishes or raking the yard are all just as effective as "not-doings". I don't say that to be critical of tensegrity, but as someone who studied martial arts actively for 15 years, I can say there is value in the discipline, but the movements themselves are only as "magical" as the practitioner. You are the magic.
D
Yeah I have a hard time believe that DJ was carlos's alter-ego. Too much information from which we know little about is contained in his books. There has to be something to DJ IMHO. But its true the teachings is most important. Its my understanding that you need a certain amount of energy to do this work and magical passes is suppose to help with that. How did you go about reaching your double?
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nemo wrote:trinsic wrote:I have been reading Castenda's books for a couple of years in a quest to find out more about what happens after death. Not saying that everything I read has the truth but his books has some truth in it.
Im working on a screenplay involving aspects of sorcery but my own journey is to find the truth is equally important. I have been reading what's been said on death and I wondered. Why is it so important to survive after death? If your awareness gets transferred to the universe (as I have interpreted it, you loose your identity?)
The cosmos creates experience, one type of experience is to be a singularity, the experience of being separate from the eagle. If a singularity does not grow, beyond a certain threshold energetically it remains in cyclic existence. Nothing wrong with that. The eagle has also provided an avenue to move out of the cyclic experience, and create perpetual singularities that do not forget themselves within the infinity of experiences available within the emanations at large. To do this is to one must amp up energy enough move out of the intent of the first attention. It's not really something I would describe as important, its just another possibility a game we can play.
As far a truth, that is a moving target, that changes, depending on perspectives, and energy levels of the observers.
How does one gain enough energy to move out of the intenet of the first attention with out a teacher?
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trinsic1 wrote:
Yeah I have a hard time believe that DJ was carlos's alter-ego. Too much information from which we know little about is contained in his books. There has to be something to DJ IMHO. But its true the teachings is most important. Its my understanding that you need a certain amount of energy to do this work and magical passes is suppose to help with that. How did you go about reaching your double?
The story of how I came face to face with my double is on my website at: http://www.quantumshaman.com/html/mirror.htm
Bottom line... without realizing it, I had been creating my double all my life, since early childhood. I believe I was born to it.
D
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trinsic1 wrote:
How does one gain enough energy to move out of the intent of the first attention with out a teacher?
The quick answer is personal unbending intent, but in a way that is not really enough if the intent is misdirected. What I did was continually use my daily life and my interaction with it, and stalked myself. A honest appraisal, of my motivations for what I did, and taking some chances at times, that would be considered unordinary, small things at first, then as I gained in familiarity with the process, took on bigger things, that in turn amped up my personal power, enough to see when I was acting in the world from the attributes of the first attention, which have been called by others, and works for me, actions based on self importance.
This process could be reduced to "starting to see the energetic framework that the first attention uses to bind the AP and the those around it, to behave in the way it does"
If in this short spurt of words the possibility to get across to you or anyone something that would help is that energetically speaking, information is energy, the first attention will lie, and use manipulation to get what it wants, and this leads to energy drains and vampiristic interaction in most first attention interaction, from things like beefing up self importance, to wallowing in self pity and the pity of others. So strategically disengaging from first attention actions once it is recognized, for what it is, is step one.
When I say lie, that is not necessarily the obvious straight up lie, but the subtle one that sits in us and is so familiar that it seems like it is not there, directing our behavour, yet it is, That once you notice it, you can shine a light on it more and more and as you do that, the thing that drains your energy looses more and more of its hold and in this way energy is saved.
Saving energy then is like building a mountain, bit by bit, and as you climb again and again to the top struggling to put another piece on, you start seeing further and further, until you have the energy to gently, slip out of the intent of the first attention.
Look for information that empowers you and anything that you come across that does not give you a boost, isn't.
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nemo wrote:trinsic1 wrote:
How does one gain enough energy to move out of the intent of the first attention with out a teacher?
The quick answer is personal unbending intent, but in a way that is not really enough if the intent is misdirected. What I did was continually use my daily life and my interaction with it, and stalked myself. A honest appraisal, of my motivations for what I did, and taking some chances at times, that would be considered unordinary, small things at first, then as I gained in familiarity with the process, took on bigger things, that in turn amped up my personal power, enough to see when I was acting in the world from the attributes of the first attention, which have been called by others, and works for me, actions based on self importance.
This process could be reduced to "starting to see the energetic framework that the first attention uses to bind the AP and the those around it, to behave in the way it does"
If in this short spurt of words the possibility to get across to you or anyone something that would help is that energetically speaking, information is energy, the first attention will lie, and use manipulation to get what it wants, and this leads to energy drains and vampiristic interaction in most first attention interaction, from things like beefing up self importance, to wallowing in self pity and the pity of others. So strategically disengaging from first attention actions once it is recognized, for what it is, is step one.
When I say lie, that is not necessarily the obvious straight up lie, but the subtle one that sits in us and is so familiar that it seems like it is not there, directing our behavour, yet it is, That once you notice it, you can shine a light on it more and more and as you do that, the thing that drains your energy looses more and more of its hold and in this way energy is saved.
Saving energy then is like building a mountain, bit by bit, and as you climb again and again to the top struggling to put another piece on, you start seeing further and further, until you have the energy to gently, slip out of the intent of the first attention.
Look for information that empowers you and anything that you come across that does not give you a boost, isn't.
Ohh, I see. I think I have been doing that for awhile now then. I got on the spirtual path when I started reading "The power of now" from eckhart tolle. Over the years I have been using presence to shine the light on my actions and thoughts to the point where I have made big changes in my life. I come from a place of love for myself and others instead of a place of fear and resentment.
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trinsic1 wrote:Ohh, I see. I think I have been doing that for awhile now then. I got on the spirtual path when I started reading "The power of now" from eckhart tolle. Over the years I have been using presence to shine the light on my actions and thoughts to the point where I have made big changes in my life. I come from a place of love for myself and others instead of a place of fear and resentment.
I know of tolle, but have not read any of his books, When I discovered Castaneda's books, a year or so before the eagle's gift was published. They were the first books that spoke directly about dreaming in a way that was true for me. So I speak in Toltec terms, and see the "spiritual path" more as an incremental movement of the assemblage point, away from it's customary position.
"What is reflected, must be the self" I think it is stated by DJ, somewhere, so it is paramount within this game, to see what is being reflected.
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nemo wrote:trinsic1 wrote:Ohh, I see. I think I have been doing that for awhile now then. I got on the spirtual path when I started reading "The power of now" from eckhart tolle. Over the years I have been using presence to shine the light on my actions and thoughts to the point where I have made big changes in my life. I come from a place of love for myself and others instead of a place of fear and resentment.
I know of tolle, but have not read any of his books, When I discovered Castaneda's books, a year or so before the eagle's gift was published. They were the first books that spoke directly about dreaming in a way that was true for me. So I speak in Toltec terms, and see the "spiritual path" more as an incremental movement of the assemblage point, away from it's customary position.
"What is reflected, must be the self" I think it is stated by DJ, somewhere, so it is paramount within this game, to see what is being reflected.
Yeah I think its a good way to describe the mystery behind the process so Im glad for both ways of looking at it.
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hey-- your from sustained reaction.. just a button away.. but a completeley different scheme of moderation.
what goes on there behind the scenes?
THIRD RING OF POWER
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"Behind the scenes"
Or under the blanket as a friend fellow dreamer has coined it...blanket being formative recognisable dreaming, if making correct anecdotal connection with personal experiences..one of which just emerged from..."behind the scenes" exploration. I ask myself, again fresh from something utterly undefinable...riches beyond words (y'all...there's riches BEYOND WORDS!! I'm happy to say it)..."if I spent as much time romancing the energy body as I did speculating about it...well, I'd sustain a perennial conviction that words just don't suffice...either in getting you there...or in describing it once you get there." Issue is in the difficulty in letting go of the compulsion for reference point..."self", I guess...or of social sense of self...or whatever-it-is that keeps us looping in limbo, even in dreaming. The "thing" that words tend to wrap themselves around without end, feeding each other but leaving the sneaking impression we're missing out on something really huge. The presumed "snuggly" aspect of the blanket. But can deliberately roll the blanket back...and then...well there's something very special under there. It's abstract yet blissfully intimate. It's composed of light, in part...and of intense but in-graspable feeling that plays amongst itself...and of expressive intelligence beyond thoughts and ideas. Only the energy body knows that supreme language. All the other compulsions toward Bible Code and playing with numbers and perceived patterns....and dates and prophecies and implied meaning and fixtures and systems...well, from this little chipmunks perspective....all of that is just irrelevant in the face of it. It is a gorgeous and wonderful thing, the sheer RANGE of awareness. There is no end to the possible vistas of exploration. Go bananas, I say to myself. Quit dribbling about it and dive deep. Who gives a **** about trying to cohere around some groups need to categorize every fucking thing....as if we know what in the hell we're talking about. We don't. Descriptions are folds in the blanket....I mean, sure no problem gathering it here and there if I feel cold. But knowing there's untold amounts of space beneath it, which is ready and waitiing. Half gainer with a twist
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Glance said:
Only the energy body knows that supreme language.
Hi Glance, still waiting for that skype conversation I read what you said a few times, and I am not in disagreement with it, but as a total statement you are essentially strati ling sp? the energetic feeling you have with the solid deciphering tonal energy matrix. Correct me if I am wrong please.
Continuing assuming that is so, then the statement that I cut and pasted might be used to condense what you said, by me at least.
So for the tonal "us", the one that likes to see an order to things, then is being dismissed as secondary to this language, once removed from it. This then leaves us with the feeling that the language is beyond, the tonal. It is my conviction that this is not the case, if the natural order of the total being is achieved. Meaning that yes that is true if the attention is not whole, the being itself is divided into parts. It is not true if a being is energetically integrated and not reflective of an incomplete state.
Descriptively speaking of course
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GREAT PICTURE ROSY )))))))))))))))
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Oh, don't sweat it Nemo I should always preface with "Please understand I'm speaking for myself here". There is nothing in what I said (or saw) that was meant to foster or be rendered into anything resembling "conviction". All that up above simply erupted from a unique transitory experience for me. It wouldn't be wrong to write it off as "sophomoric ravings of hysteria", if you like. That would be quite the valid view, I think.
You know, for some strange reason I've never been able to get Skype to work right for me....some glitch that won't allow the interface Oh well.....here's to star-crossed conversations! *CLINK*
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To be clear, though...for god's sake, I am in no way claiming anything remotely indicative of "whole awareness"
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Okay glance, thx for the explanation. Mornings Son was to skype with me at sometime also, MS? Your whole chat crew? What happens after death is you have to talk with nemo on skype, that's only funny because a friend of mine is talking with me through someone else i talk to on skype, and he died about a year ago.
Thx rosygyro for the Third Ring of Power, I had forgotten that term and it is one of my favorites.
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LOL...sry, man...it's no explanation, I know. Next time, I'll stick to poetry
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rosygyro wrote:hey-- your from sustained reaction.. just a button away.. but a completeley different scheme of moderation.
what goes on there behind the scenes?
THIRD RING OF POWER
You know, I noticed that at the end of my name but its been so long that I have used yuku that I dont know where its from? is it another forum I must have used a long time ago? I dont know for sure.
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Mornings Son wrote:I loved the Stalker movie, but not the game so much. A bit to difficult in (the many) battle, but it is intense! I would have loved it with much less action.
It is a cool idea IMO that you got. Good luck with it.
Don Juan have been reported seen by a few I know. I meet him too (maybe), how can one be sure? I did not make tests, but went for the wisdom of the words, rather that 'oh it Don Juan'. It might well have been an entity that used a 'Don Juan' mask to get the message(teaching) through to me.Yeah, I like the stalker movie but I think he uses too much exposition to convey ideas though the character's philosophical musings I like the visuals though. The game is more interesting because you are experiencing the zone world even if it is from a combat perspective it still has alot of openness to the game world to experience all the creations of the zone. In my story the zone is kind of like a transition between This world and another world that can be reached similar to how a sorcerer moves his AP. Im working on combining the world of the zone in the move stalker with the world of don juan. The zone has many interesting things happening in it since it was created by human consciousness being in contact with the planets no-sphere which is an energy configuration that orbits the planet. Right now im working on the backstory of our orgins (how we got here on this planet) So im looking into the creation of judeo-christianity and alien influence on our culture though religions. Apparently in many cultures there is this perception that aliens came to our planet very early in our history and have something to do with our evolution. The zone aftermath of the chernobyl explosion is like a terraforming event on a energy level that is bringing humans into balance with the universe.
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not knowing what really happens after death i can only get some kind of a view by the stories I have heard. I saw a couple of clips on you tube about young people who say they can remember who they were before this life. One small boy said he was a Japanese kamikaze pilot, his story checked out enough for a news broadcast to be interested. I like stories and I like how the mere act of hearing a new story means my view has to change as I try and find a place for the new information.
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