Modern Nagualism-What Happens After Death?

[Uncle Sam]

QS: But the transfer of awareness into double in the death - is NOT the third attention achievement, toltec total freedom is only the third attention achievement.

I know that we all have energy body (dreamways says that we just dont bother to use them), and the third ring of power is the intent to bring the two bodies together in close proximity (integrating them, where is the bilocation as a stage, bilocation is proximity, reaching the third point , thats happennig in the healthy beginning too, not the dreaming bias).

SO the freedom is intent to get the two bodies together, not only second attention double awareness, but to get the bilocation awareness, what means that both body and energy body can be here on Earth ready to burn (fuse, merge and blast. Ofc, recapitulation is the most important third attention practices, not the dreaming, because paradigm says that we have energy bodies allready, just we need the intent to bring them together close back, as it were natural state when born before processed by Bobby matrix system.

So have intent to bring the bodies together, you and your double, and be sure that without complete recapitulation eagle will eat you, i.e. if you burn, it wont fuse, and eagle will eat the tonal body, leaving the double and that will be second attention warrior, not the evolved third attention being.

if you do the 2nd attention transfer, then you avoid reincarnation and will be "re-born" some millions or billions years later interdependently on your energy body (this will imply some local plane catastrophe), Earth is safe cca 5 billions years (and can be moved ,).. so it is 5 billion years possibly.. if you are in some high energy world, because also it lose impetus, those energy bodies can fade (death defiers are full on vampires frequently). so it depends where you want to live in afterlife and it is afterlife, it is not the third attention, dj has called it graveyard. there is interdependent origination then.

there are more possibilities in the death if you do Yoga, how to transfer use and awareness of both you and your double in the death. it does all depends on energy level and knowledge.

e.g. double can disintegrate in one year after death and you can be reborn as a chicken in 5 days

[quantumshaman]

Uncle Sam wrote:

QS: But the transfer of awareness into double in the death - is NOT the third attention achievement, toltec total freedom is only the third attention achievement.
I know that we all have energy body (dreamways says that we just dont bother to use them), and the third ring of power is the intent to bring the two bodies together in close proximity (integrating them, where is the bilocation as a stage, bilocation is proximity, reaching the third point , thats happennig in the healthy beginning too, not the dreaming bias).
SO the freedom is intent to get the two bodies together, not only second attention double awareness, but to get the bilocation awareness, what means that both body and energy body can be here on Earth ready to burn (fuse, merge and blast. Ofc, recapitulation is the most important third attention practices, not the dreaming, because paradigm says that we have energy bodies allready, just we need the intent to bring them together close back, as it were natural state when born before processed by Bobby matrix system.
So have intent to bring the bodies together, you and your double, and be sure that without complete recapitulation eagle will eat you, i.e. if you burn, it wont fuse, and eagle will eat the tonal body, leaving the double and that will be second attention warrior, not the evolved third attention being.
if you do the 2nd attention transfer, then you avoid reincarnation and will be "re-born" some millions or billions years later interdependently on your energy body (this will imply some local plane catastrophe), Earth is safe cca 5 billions years (and can be moved ,).. so it is 5 billion years possibly.. if you are in some high energy world, because also it lose impetus, those energy bodies can fade (death defiers are full on vampires frequently). so it depends where you want to live in afterlife and it is afterlife, it is not the third attention, dj has called it graveyard. there is interdependent origination then.
there are more possibilities in the death if you do Yoga, how to transfer use and awareness of both you and your double in the death. it does all depends on energy level and knowledge.
e.g. double can disintegrate in one year after death and you can be reborn as a chicken in 5 days As usual, Scout 1, you are speaking AS IF you know... when the reality is that you don't know anymore than I do. *shrugs*
It's all just pointless speculation at this point.  Might as well speculate what happens to a fart when it leaves the body.  LOL.

[Peacefulwarrior]

quantumshaman wrote:
delawaredan wrote:

I say so and you obviously don't know what you are talking about. I learned from Mooji that the body dies and then the mind. And it is obvious that the Spirit doesn't otherwise there would be no infinity. What do you believe happens when we die? Also Im 100% sure that some of Carlos Castaneda's work is pure fiction otherwise I should have already reached "total freedom". What do you believe will happen when you die?
  
What I "believe" is entirely irrelevant.  What you believe is entirely irrelevant.

I don't know who Mooji is, but if you want to believe him/her/it, go ahead. It won't change the fact that it's all pointless speculation and conjecture, 'cuz Mooji doesn't have the patent on knowing what happens after we die.

What I KNOW about what happens when you die is that your awareness can be transferred to your double, so that you inhabit the totality of yourself.  I don't "believe" it or hope it is true.  I have experienced it outside of time (which I don't expect you to understand), and at the very least I don't have to base my beliefs on what someone else told me.  Heh. 

And for what it's worth, spirit and infinity aren't necessarily the same thing, so I'm not sure where you are coming up with your notion that spirit doesn't die or there could be no infinity?  Eh? 

The one thing we agree on is that at least some portion of CC's work is fiction.  Then again... life itself is largely fiction. 

  
Mooji is a sage nad he knows. Ofcourse your mind dies and your body disentrigates when you die come on man thats baby stuff. Also I was in come once and experienced blackness. It was very peaceful. You have it upside down man - you do not have awareness - you are it. The double is where your awareness returns to when you die (The Indescribabale Force or Nagual or Eagle). Spirit and Infinity are not the same thing, but the spirit or the Nagual is omnipresent, omniscient and infinite. All the best

[Peacefulwarrior]

delawaredan wrote:
Peacefulwarrior wrote:
quantumshaman wrote:

Peacefulwarrior wrote:

got it right. Most of the comments are nonsense. When a person dies his body dies and then does his mind. His spirit though doesn't die. I don't know about reincarnation, but I think that those who were evil reincarnate as animals or as poor people. Those who were not evil have a choice whether to reincarnate or to merge with The Creator and be eternal Bliss.
Who says so, and why would you believe them?  Why do you believe a person's body dies and then his mind?  Why do you believe the spirit doesn't die?  Why would you think those who are evil reincarnate as animals or poor people (that one brought a chuckle)?  And - most of all - why do you believe in a "creator" or the idea of bliss, or evil?

Everything you are saying here is assumption upon assumption, resulting in a false belief system that will bury you if you let it.

Don't shoot the messenger.  Just pointin' it out.

QS
I say so and you obviously don't know what you are talking about. I learned from Mooji that the body dies and then the mind. And it is obvious that the Spirit doesn't otherwise there would be no infinity. What do you believe happens when we die? Also Im 100% sure that some of Carlos Castaneda's work is pure fiction otherwise I should have already reached "total freedom". What do you believe will happen when you die?

PW - you have not reached total freedom becasue you wallow in self pity and threaten to kill yourself.    

  
I didn't threaten to kill myself. All I said that my life has become such a mess that it probably is going to end very soon.

[Peacefulwarrior]

Uncle Sam wrote:
 
LOLZ

[delawaredan]

PW - you know what you sent me in a private message...I was truly worried and wasted a lot of energy worrying.    I do not appreciate being solicited for money after you tried to play on my emotions with idle threats of suicide.   I will terminate communication with you now.   I hope you find happiness.

[quantumshaman]

delawaredan wrote:

PW - you know what you sent me in a private message...I was truly worried and wasted a lot of energy worrying.    I do not appreciate being solicited for money after you tried to play on my emotions with idle threats of suicide.   I will terminate communication with you now.   I hope you find happiness.    
!!!!! You might want to mention that to NLW - I'm sure he wouldn't tolerate that kind of behaviour here.

[quantumshaman]

Peacefulwarrior wrote:
I didn't threaten to kill myself. All I said that my life has become such a mess that it probably is going to end very soon.

Based on what delewaredan just posted, I have to say that you are creating your own reality.  Maybe your life's a mess because you are making a mess of it.  When you behave in an irrational and overly-dramatic manner, it makes it difficult for anyone to trust anything you are saying.  It sounds like you need a crisis counselor, not a Toltec forum. No offense.

[quantumshaman]

Peacefulwarrior wrote:
Mooji is a sage nad he knows. Ofcourse your mind dies and your body disentrigates when you die come on man thats baby stuff. Also I was in come once and experienced blackness. It was very peaceful. You have it upside down man - you do not have awareness - you are it. The double is where your awareness returns to when you die (The Indescribabale Force or Nagual or Eagle). Spirit and Infinity are not the same thing, but the spirit or the Nagual is omnipresent, omniscient and infinite. All the best
You are far too trusting in what other people have told you. Mooji may be a sage, but he can't think for you. 
As for your comment that the double is where your awareness returns to when you die... the only way your awareness can "return" to the double is if YOU do the work to create the double in the first place.  It isn't a given.  You're not born whole.  You become whole through the process of living and through the gathering of experience and cohesion.  To say the double is where your awareness returns to when you die... is naive and too rooted in the philosophy of entitlement.  Nobody is sitting in the clouds handing out souls.  The only way you get one is if you create it.  Believe otherwise at your own peril.
One major element of the Toltec teachings is getting rid of the belief systems that spring from the foreign installation.  You seem to believe a lot of stuff... but have you stopped to ask yourself WHY you believe it?  Because Mooji said it?  Because you read it in a book?  Think for yourself... or someone else will do it for you.
QS

[Uncle Sam]

Energy body is already formed, it is only not within the reach. Human beings are born with complete nagual double energy body. The point is to bring it together back and burn.

[Uncle Sam]

This and other issues has brought me to comprehensive conclusion that this and everything is only 100 % practicality issue.

[rosygyro]

I think the idea is to understand i
Individual recapitulation of this incarnation
and then discover inherant awarness..
which in itself is a two fold memory of both your inner dna workings through your families geneology which led to your birth..
and secondly inherant awarness of your mind style and spirits previous feats of corporeal manifesation.
the fusing of the two aspects of inherant awarness is done through impeccable recapitulation of your current life events and protracting that memory into the inherant awarness framework.
the aim is to Bottom out inherant awarness into a paradox which is essentially free from observation within awarness except by the equally impeccable who ahve recapitualted enough to know their spiritual strengths.
this is both in the blood and in the spirit.. past.
once inherant awarness is ROOTED in the paradox of the jewel of immpeccability..
then EVOLVING awarness for you becomes a SPEAR stuck into potential energy of the unfolding now..
and the leap to infinity becomes at least a possibility..

[Gonzo]

rosygyro wrote:I think the idea is to understand i
Individual recapitulation of this incarnation
and then discover inherant awarness..
which in itself is a two fold memory of both your inner dna workings through your families geneology which led to your birth..
and secondly inherant awarness of your mind style and spirits previous feats of corporeal manifesation.
the fusing of the two aspects of inherant awarness is done through impeccable recapitulation of your current life events and protracting that memory into the inherant awarness framework.
the aim is to Bottom out inherant awarness into a paradox which is essentially free from observation within awarness except by the equally impeccable who ahve recapitualted enough to know their spiritual strengths.
this is both in the blood and in the spirit.. past.
once inherant awarness is ROOTED in the paradox of the jewel of immpeccability..
then EVOLVING awarness for you becomes a SPEAR stuck into potential energy of the unfolding now..
and the leap to infinity becomes at least a possibility..Right on, Rosy...a post of yours I actually understood and quite agree with.

[spiderlily]

Gonzo wrote:
.
Right on, Rosy...a post of yours I actually understood and quite agree with.
Rosy is one smart dude.  Don't be  put off by his poetic ramblings.

[Peacefulwarrior]

delawaredan wroteW - you know what you sent me in a private message...I was truly worried and wasted a lot of energy worrying.    I do not appreciate being solicited for money after you tried to play on my emotions with idle threats of suicide.   I will terminate communication with you now.   I hope you find happiness.    
 
I didn't play on your emotions with threats of suicide. I was in a difficult situation.

[Peacefulwarrior]

quantumshaman wrote:
Peacefulwarrior wrote:
Mooji is a sage nad he knows. Ofcourse your mind dies and your body disentrigates when you die come on man thats baby stuff. Also I was in come once and experienced blackness. It was very peaceful. You have it upside down man - you do not have awareness - you are it. The double is where your awareness returns to when you die (The Indescribabale Force or Nagual or Eagle). Spirit and Infinity are not the same thing, but the spirit or the Nagual is omnipresent, omniscient and infinite. All the best
You are far too trusting in what other people have told you. Mooji may be a sage, but he can't think for you. 

As for your comment that the double is where your awareness returns to when you die... the only way your awareness can "return" to the double is if YOU do the work to create the double in the first place.  It isn't a given.  You're not born whole.  You become whole through the process of living and through the gathering of experience and cohesion.  To say the double is where your awareness returns to when you die... is naive and too rooted in the philosophy of entitlement.  Nobody is sitting in the clouds handing out souls.  The only way you get one is if you create it.  Believe otherwise at your own peril.

One major element of the Toltec teachings is getting rid of the belief systems that spring from the foreign installation.  You seem to believe a lot of stuff... but have you stopped to ask yourself WHY you believe it?  Because Mooji said it?  Because you read it in a book?  Think for yourself... or someone else will do it for you.

QS
Yes you must do the work to create your double or rather it always exists whether you are aware of it or not. For me "the double" is the deep sleep state where you return to also when you die. You may be wrong and that we are born whole, what do u suggest say a baby is born and then dies, do you think that he will be eaten by the eagle? you must be very stupid to answer yes to this question. "Believe othwerwise at your own peril" lol you must be very simple minded. No offense. I believe it because it is the TRUTH it is a proven fact so shhhh.


PW

[Peacefulwarrior]

I was once in coma and there was peacuful serene blackness, much like in deep sleep. Come on Dela, you also talk in yourwebsite about the "Who am I" question, whcih leads you into contempleation of your divine eternal nature - same as Mooji - to conclude its disastrous to try to build your ego by writing against what i have said, which is the truth.

[quantumshaman]

Peacefulwarrior wrote:

I was once in coma and there was peacuful serene blackness, much like in deep sleep. Come on Dela, you also talk in yourwebsite about the "Who am I" question, whcih leads you into contempleation of your divine eternal nature - same as Mooji - to conclude its disastrous to try to build your ego by writing against what i have said, which is the truth.
Clearly you are a moron.  There is no cure.
Your post here makes no sense.
And you know nothing of "truth."
You are a gamester and a fool. 
You are probably just one more manifestation of Scout1.

[Peacefulwarrior]

quantumshaman wrote:
Peacefulwarrior wrote:

I was once in coma and there was peacuful serene blackness, much like in deep sleep. Come on Dela, you also talk in yourwebsite about the "Who am I" question, whcih leads you into contempleation of your divine eternal nature - same as Mooji - to conclude its disastrous to try to build your ego by writing against what i have said, which is the truth.
Clearly you are a moron.  There is no cure.

Your post here makes no sense.

And you know nothing of "truth."

You are a gamester and a fool. 

You are probably just one more manifestation of Scout1.
It makes no sense, because you are blind.

[Senear]

This may be out of place, and if so i apologize...but reading the exchange above, I come to the same place i often do, when reading such exchanges: what is the point of it? QS pointed out that an assumption is an assumption, no matter how much weight we give to the source...be it Moogie, Rom or even Quark. The reaction to that...prodding perspective, was "Oh yea, I looked at your website, and YOUR the blind one!" then Qs said "whatever ****-for brains, and you smell like scout" to which PW replied..."If you smell it, its only because your smelling your upper lip...double burn!".

While its all very fascinating, and entertaining, in the dull persistent sort of way a ten penny nail might slowly work its way through ones skull, much like that simile, one must wonder...whats the point? I get QS pointing out an assumption is an assumption, thats a good thing to point out, even if delivered with the typical i don't really care as such but i do give a **** style. But the reaction, PW, to point at her writings and say you do the same thing so you suck... and then the back and forth after that...why? Cant one just consider what she might mean and accept the perspective for what it was...a gift, and an expression of giving a **** (concern of a sort for "awareness" if not the specific point/topic)... even in an abstract way. thats why i dont like forums in general, its either a great big consensus circle jerk and then attack the dissenters...or in the absence of that, people arguing about their ideas like others...like their is some goddamn reason people need to accept what is being said...there isnt, its solitary...in that its not consensus based...and anything but whats real is just wasting what little time we have to be/do. Why do people care...react, and go in circles...myself included...hmm no thats interesting...like the nail in the head, and my goal is for it to work its way out where i can remove it, not have it burrow to the center. For this, the claw is of more use then the hammer (two ends of a standard nail driving tool). and instead of saying that i could just post a video of mc hammer and type lol lol lol but then id be arguing with Qs again (because thats what happened last time i did that) and putting myself in Pw's shoes...Im not the moron you are! id be forced to say to protect my ego/self interest. So... the internets...sigh.

[quantumshaman]

Senear wrote:

I get QS pointing out an assumption is an assumption, thats a good thing to point out, even if delivered with the typical i don't really care as such but i do give a **** style. But the reaction, PW, to point at her writings and say you do the same thing so you suck... and then the back and forth after that...why?    Hi, Senear.
In this case, the back and forth was a stalking effort on my part to get PW to reveal himself - which he did.  Yet one more manifestation of Scout1 or someone VERY much like him.  PW has been playing games since he came on board, as delewaredan and others can validate.  And the opinions he expresses are just mirrors of Scout1 (aka uncle sam & a host of other nyms) - IOW, PW is a sock puppet created to support unclesam... who is a sock puppet created to support Scout1... and so on and on and on.
A rat is still a rat, even if you try to dress it up like a cat.

[spiderlily]

quantumshaman wrote:

In this case, the back and forth was a stalking effort on my part to get PW to reveal himself - which he did.  Yet one more manifestation of Scout1 or someone VERY much like him.  PW has been playing games since he came on board, as delewaredan and others can validate.  And the opinions he expresses are just mirrors of Scout1 (aka uncle sam & a host of other nyms) - IOW, PW is a sock puppet created to support unclesam... who is a sock puppet created to support Scout1... and so on and on and on.



 

I don't think this is even relevant, but Scout and PW and Uncle Sam are not the same person.  True, they are similar. 


Senear,

Great post, love your sense of humour!   Beleive it or not, there are forums in which people don't go around in circles like this, chasing each others tails.   Truth is, people feed off this srot of energy.  It can be exhilarating and even addicting at times.   For that reason it's easy to get caught up in.  Self importance knows how to feed itself!
While its all very fascinating, and entertaining, in the dull persistent sort of way a ten penny nail might slowly work its way through ones skull, much like that simile, one must wonder...whats the point? I get QS pointing out an assumption is an assumption, thats a good thing to point out, even if delivered with the typical i don't really care as such but i do give a **** style. But the reaction, PW, to point at her writings and say you do the same thing so you suck... and then the back and forth after that...why? Cant one just consider what she might mean and accept the perspective for what it was...a gift, and an expression of giving a **** (concern of a sort for "awareness" if not the specific point/topic)... even in an abstract way. thats why i dont like forums in general, its either a great big consensus circle jerk and then attack the dissenters...or in the absence of that, people arguing about their ideas like others...like their is some goddamn reason people need to accept what is being said...there isnt, its solitary...in that its not consensus based...and anything but whats real is just wasting what little time we have to be/do. Why do people care...react, and go in circles...myself included...hmm no thats interesting...like the nail in the head, and my goal is for it to work its way out where i can remove it, not have it burrow to the center. For this, the claw is of more use then the hammer (two ends of a standard nail driving tool). and instead of saying that i could just post a video of mc hammer and type lol lol lol but then id be arguing with Qs again (because thats what happened last time i did that) and putting myself in Pw's shoes...Im not the moron you are! id be forced to say to protect my ego/self interest. So... the internets...sigh.

[delawaredan]

Senear wrote:

This may be out of place, and if so i apologize...but reading the exchange above, I come to the same place i often do, when reading such exchanges: what is the point of it? QS pointed out that an assumption is an assumption, no matter how much weight we give to the source...be it Moogie, Rom or even Quark. The reaction to that...prodding perspective, was "Oh yea, I looked at your website, and YOUR the blind one!" then Qs said "whatever ****-for brains, and you smell like scout" to which PW replied..."If you smell it, its only because your smelling your upper lip...double burn!".
While its all very fascinating, and entertaining, in the dull persistent sort of way a ten penny nail might slowly work its way through ones skull, much like that simile, one must wonder...whats the point? I get QS pointing out an assumption is an assumption, thats a good thing to point out, even if delivered with the typical i don't really care as such but i do give a **** style. But the reaction, PW, to point at her writings and say you do the same thing so you suck... and then the back and forth after that...why? Cant one just consider what she might mean and accept the perspective for what it was...a gift, and an expression of giving a **** (concern of a sort for "awareness" if not the specific point/topic)... even in an abstract way. thats why i dont like forums in general, its either a great big consensus circle jerk and then attack the dissenters...or in the absence of that, people arguing about their ideas like others...like their is some goddamn reason people need to accept what is being said...there isnt, its solitary...in that its not consensus based...and anything but whats real is just wasting what little time we have to be/do. Why do people care...react, and go in circles...myself included...hmm no thats interesting...like the nail in the head, and my goal is for it to work its way out where i can remove it, not have it burrow to the center. For this, the claw is of more use then the hammer (two ends of a standard nail driving tool). and instead of saying that i could just post a video of mc hammer and type lol lol lol but then id be arguing with Qs again (because thats what happened last time i did that) and putting myself in Pw's shoes...Im not the moron you are! id be forced to say to protect my ego/self interest. So... the internets...sigh.
thank you!

[quantumshaman]

spiderlily wrote:
I don't think this is even relevant, but Scout and PW and Uncle Sam are not the same person.  True, they are similar. 
Self importance knows how to feed itself!
To the first point, if they are not the same person, they might as well be.  And I would be willing to bet that if any of the moderators would bother to check IPs, they would find that all 3 nyms hail from the same general area, if not from the same exact IP.  Scout 1 (and his alternyms) are obsessed with this forum and keep finding ways to sneak back on even after NLW has banned him.  History speaks for itself.
To the second point... you  let's not pretend your comments here are coming from an innocent perspective.  They are rooted in the personal history between us, which is okay by me, but I'm no longer going to allow you to play your passive-aggressive games with me on an open forum.  Self importance knows how to feed itself?  You should know most of all, or you would not have felt the need to make this post in the first place.

[delawaredan]

The IP addresses were already checked for Uncle Sam, not sure of PW - but I do not feel Scout is PW.    I too do not like passive aggressive games.