Sorcery

[Wei Shan Yang]

"would you classify sexual abuse as one of the freedoms a person free of all limitations can INFLICT on another.."



no, I speak of freeing perception, not action. I think we should act with care toward our fellow human beings...even if we don't adhere to perception of any moral code or belief system. We should make our lives run as smoothly and positively as possible...still its all folly. When I speak of freedom, I speak of something others may not observe in our words or actions, yet its there.

[snowblind]

the other part of that is this...did the experience further the evolution of the perpetrator...or of the victim? If it did then was it "bad"?

[SelfHealedMadman]

~ 

To call them sorcerers is not my choice.  

Brujo or bruja, which mean sorcerer or witch, are the Spanish terms they themselves use to denote a male or a female practitioner.  

I have always resented the negative connotation of those words, but the sorcerers themselves put me at ease, once and for all by explaining that what is meant by sorcery is something quite abstract; the ability, which some people develop, to expand the limits of normal perception.  

The abstract quality of sorcery voids automatically, then, any positive or negative connotation of terms used to describe its practitioners.  

Expanding the limits of normal perception is a concept that stems from the sorcerers' belief that our choices in life are limited, due to the fact that they are defined by the social order.  

Sorcerers believe that the social order sets up our lists of options, but we do the rest: By accepting only these choices, we set a limit to our nearly limitless possibilities.  

This limitation, they say, fortunately applies only to our social side and not to the other side of us; a practically inaccessible side, which is not in the realm of ordinary awareness.  

Their main endeavor, therefore, is to uncover that side.  

They do this by breaking the frail, yet resilient, shield of human assumptions about what we are and what we are capable of being.  

Sorcerers acknowledge that in our world of daily affairs there are people who probe into the unknown in pursuit of alternative views of reality.  

The sorcerers contend that the ideal consequences of such probings should be the capacity to draw from our findings the necessary energy to change, and to detach ourselves from our definition of reality.  

But the sorcerers argue that unfortunately such probings are essentially mental endeavors: New thoughts and new ideas hardly ever change us.  

One of the things I learned in the sorcerers' world was that without retreating from the world, and without injuring themselves in the process, sorcerers do accomplish the magnificent task of breaking the agreement that has defined reality.

[snowblind]

SelfHealedMadman wrote:~ 
"Most people don't have the wits nor the size of spirit to dream.  do you feel like most people SHM?
"They cannot help but see the world as ordinary and repetitious; and do you know why?" she asked, fixing me with her keen gaze:  "Because if you don't fight to avoid it, the world is indeed ordinary and repetitious. 
"Most people are so involved with themselves that they have become idiotic. 
"Idiots have no desire to fight to avoid ordinariness and repetitiousness."  What do you mean by this?  Could you give an example?

[SelfHealedMadman]

~  
Hello Snow! 
These comments and quotes are from Being In Dreaming by Florinda Grau, not SHM. 
Thus, to tip-toe through the Intent of a Witch adept in Sorcery, SHM will not do. 
If you wish to seek revenge for upsetting yourself in chat, please address at YAW.  The Shamanic Warrior Discussion Group is not a playground; more of a battleground  for waging war.  War on the Self. 
Thank you for taking the time to read the posts.  
An arrow of freedom from the fierce bow of the heart,  
SelfHealedMadman

[Wiseass]

SelfHealedMadman wrote:~  
Hello Snow! 
These comments and quotes are from Being In Dreaming by Florinda Grau, not SHM. 
Thus, to tip-toe through the Intent of a Witch adept in Sorcery, SHM will not do. 
If you wish to seek revenge for upsetting yourself in chat, please address at YAW.  The Shamanic Warrior Discussion Group is not a playground; more of a battleground  for waging war.  War on the Self. 
Thank you for taking the time to read the posts.  
An arrow of freedom from the fierce bow of the heart,  
SelfHealedMadman

[Mornings Son]

The Shamanic Warrior Discussion Group is not a playground; more of a battleground  for waging war.  War on the Self.  Well said!

[Mornings Son]

EDIT: well said SelfHealedMadMan!

[Lunoor]

It is the self that wages war on the self, the Nagual remains unconcerned but will help in the battle of the liberation of intent by blowing the dust of the ages aside.

[Wei Shan Yang]

snowblind wrote:the other part of that is this...did the experience further the evolution of the perpetrator...or of the victim? If it did then was it "bad"?That's a good point.
Its very paradoxical...as things usually are. On the one hand, to realize perfection and that everything that happens 'was meant to happen' will free one from the social perimeters that suffocate empowerment, and the other hand is that after realizing this, one can view back upon their experiences (recap) and harness all the positive energy from what was otherwise a tragic or unfortunate situation in social terms.
I have a friend who was raped and her story illustrates this very well. After her rape she self-destructed pretty bad, just spiraled down and down to hit rock bottom. In her mind she was 'victimized' and felt herself the victim. She went to court and lost the case. then that's when it started for her...she took her rage out on a family member, was arrested for assault and told that in order to keep her children she had to attend a 3 month retreat. She was an alcoholic at the time. What happened is the retreat put her in contact with other people "like her" (veterans of the school of hard knocks) so she didn't feel so alienated by her experiences. Also she stopped drinking. When she got out she started up yoga classes, and had a big group of friends who had  been to hell and back so she could call them up and turn to them in moments when she felt tempted or whatever. So her life transformed from that event and I hope she sees it as a positive. She may not see it entirely as a positive, but that's truly how we should see it, eventually after the smoke has cleared.
As for the perpetrator, I'm not sure how his life transformed, but it surely did transform. He was a relative of her. Not knowing of his situation, I am still inclined to say his ultimate realizations will be for the better.

[SelfHealedMadman]

~
In chat, Power was mentioned...an attempt at a definition.
Found this interesting in The Sorcerer's Crossing by Abelar:

"Remember this, Taisha, power is when energy gathers, either by itself or under someone's command.

[snowblind]

yet power is never defined...perhaps a mindfuck?

[SelfHealedMadman]

snowblind wrote:
yet power is never defined...perhaps a mindfuck?
Snowblind is never defined, yet you choose to talk incessantly about yourself.  Perhaps you're a mindfuck?  Perhaps I'm a mindfuck.
Perhaps we just have fucking minds and they're always in our way??

[Wei Shan Yang]

IF you define it so, yes.

[rosygyro]

I wouldnt like to speak of what people learn from sexual or energtic abuse..

the whole concept is designed to help people heal sexual trauma and enegetic damage through acceptance of the things they have learned through negative experience..

Its not really about theorising about wether sexual abuse in the future has a purpose...



which is preciseley what i mean about freedom and controlled folley...



an energetic wound someone has can suck out your energy...

healing of suc=h wounds can be made more possible by showing them a future where such things never happen anywhere.. this is a potential world in our future..

and as such it can be aquiesced....



I really dont want to develop theories on the usefullness of peodophilia in a modern society .. thanks.. and fuckyou.. for quoting such bullshit as if you know! which you obviously dont!

[SelfHealedMadman]

~



"True sorcery," Mr. Flores interjected, "does not allow for human interference."

[Wei Shan Yang]

rosy, in your anger or whatever it was, you miss my point.



Any trauma can be overcome, healed when viewed in light of universal design. So people who have suffered in how they processed their expereinces can end that suffering when they realize they were not victims, and instead harness the positives of what occurred afterward. The perception of being a victim is a very unpleasant one. Torcherous one. So to relinquish it is a relief to say the least. We cannot stop what has already occurred, but we can look at it from a new angle that does not endorse victimization, or the revenge that almost surely follows. The reason my friend became abusive (and was arrested) is because victims usually seek revenge and so the cycle of abuse continues until identity of the victim and victimizer can be dropped.



Whatever you are going on about in the future and implications of etc is your opinion, not mine.

[rosygyro]

And heres the problem..

although we are all free to intend..

within the larger scheme of things the entire planetary dream changes day to day!

I am mereley pointing out that TRUE INTENT in line with the nagual..

will sureley be in alignment with the needs of the seven billion other people you share the larger dream with...

If your intent is in alignment with thetrue intent that others can not as yet voice..

then you are doing them a big fvour a.. as well a beginnign a "snowball effect" or a avalanche of activated intent in your souroundings..



I do not think i am being foolish to suggest a future where equality is a reality..

And i wouldnt call it MY opinion either..

I would call it a world of potentiall energy that has more life giving ramifications than many others in our future..

and i would also dare to suggest it is more equally aligned with global intent..

as well as that tiny "fracture" on the habitual assemblage point..

That marks possibly the ONLY weak point in the long standing position that can actually be implemented.. through life energy rather than sorceric will!..

hence the naguals equal effect on all assemblage positions...

i am simply trying to bridge the gap between fluid and stationary awarness in a way which global intent can aquiesce..

but by all means carry-on with whatever it is you make your lifes purpose!

[SelfHealedMadman]

~
"i am simply trying to bridge the gap between fluid and stationary awarness in a way which global intent can aquiesce.."  
Awww...that makes me feel all warm and nagualicious inside....  
"And heres the problem.."  
Listen!  
Sit down, shut up, and ask yourself what's true until you know.  
That's it.   
That's the whole deal - a complete teaching of enlightenment, nagualism, toltec, etc., etc., a complete practice.  
If you ever have any questions or problems - no matter what the question or problem is - the answer is always exactly the same:  Sit down, shut up, and ask yourself what's true until you know.  
In other words, go jump off a cliff.  
Don't go near the cliff and contemplate jumping off.  
Don't read a book about jumping off.  
Don't study the art and science of jumping off.  
Don't join a support group for jumping off.  
Don't write poems about jumping off.  
Don't suck up to someone else who jumped off.  
Just jump.

[Wei Shan Yang]

"I do not think i am being foolish to suggest a future where equality is a reality.."



equality is perceived, so its not regulated to time constraints nor agreements. Also, such a word has multiple meanings.

[Gonzo]

If I understand you correctly, rosy, what you are suggesting is a correction to the way things are in the world...perhaps an evolution to let's say, "a higher way of being". That of course, presumes you find fault with it's current way of being. Why is that? Is it not possible the world, with all its faults, inequities, injustices and tragedies, is exactly the way it is for a purpose?



I particularly like a line from Richard Bach's "Illusions":
It's OK if the world is destroyed. There are a thousand million other worlds for us to create and choose from. As long as people want planets, there will be planets to live on.

[SelfHealedMadman]

Gonzo wrote:
If I understand you correctly, rosy, what you are suggesting is a correction to the way things are in the world...perhaps an evolution to let's say, "a higher way of being". That of course, presumes you find fault with it's current way of being. Why is that? Is it not possible the world, with all its faults, inequities, injustices and tragedies, is exactly the way it is for a purpose?
I particularly like a line from Richard Bach's "Illusions":
It's OK if the world is destroyed. There are a thousand million other worlds for us to create and choose from. As long as people want planets, there will be planets to live on.Which brings up the question:  Are there millions of worlds, or only one world, split infinitely by perception?

[SelfHealedMadman]

~



"Sorcery makes us aware of different realities; different possibilities, not only about the world but also about ourselves, to the extent that we no longer are able to believe in even the most solid assumptions about ourselves and our surroundings."

[Gonzo]

Regardless of the possibilities, regardless of the forays into whatever attention level by whatever means, we still end up back here. Sorcery is nice, and so are mushrooms, but in the end, we fetch water and carry firewood, believe it or don't.

[SelfHealedMadman]

Gonzo wrote:
Regardless of the possibilities, regardless of the forays into whatever attention level by whatever means, we still end up back here. Sorcery is nice, and so are mushrooms, but in the end, we fetch water and carry firewood, believe it or don't.We addressed this in chat, so no use for repetition here.  Although, G, would you copy your post from YAW over here?  I really enjoyed it, and will perhaps clarify you point.