Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
Step 1. Intend a Nagual you feel Heart-Connected. This can be done in dreaming, if you are not on a face-to-face situation with your potential benefactor.
Step 2. Ask him if he takes you as an apprentice.
Step 3. If the answer is yes, learning beyond words and guidance begins. If the answer is no, ask why. Naguals are not capricious and it would serve you to know why are you being rejected as a student. Perhaps a no can mean a "not now", provided that you are willing to fix your follies.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
Philosopher wrote:
Step 1. Intend a Nagual you feel Heart-Connected. This can be done in dreaming, if you are not on a face-to-face situation with your potential benefactor.
Step 2. Ask him if he takes you as an apprentice.
Step 3. If the answer is yes, learning beyond words and guidance begins. If the answer is no, ask why. Naguals are not capricious and it would serve you to know why are you being rejected as a student. Perhaps a no can mean a "not now", provided that you are willing to fix your follies.
Interesting P.
Is this your personal experience?
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
How do you (or
other readers in this forum) think about the functions of a Nagual and a
Benefactor ? Reading the books of C.C. I have the impression, that the
terms Nagual and Benefactor are used sometimes as synonyms , in other passages
I got the impression Nagual and Benefactor have very different functions, especially
Don Juan and Don Genaro in their relationship
to Carlos Castaneda. Maybe it has connection with the old rule of the mexican
naguals , in which every member of the
party have very specific tasks and functions. Does the rule still apply to modern groups of sorcerers ?
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
We could speak about it within a Nagual context and in general. In a Nagual context there is ideally a tonal teacher and a Nagual benefactor, as seen in the Genaro/Don Juan relationship.
The teacher prepares the tonal, the Nagual provides the experiences. They both provide energy and guidance.
In general, we usually have teachers-of-the-tonal that we seek to prop our tonal, but this is tonal-seeking-tonal... so there is no real development happening, but a preparation. Then, if the tonal is "right" and has the right intent, a Nagual pops out and it's up to the tonal to take advantage of the opportunity as much as possible. The Guru/Master/Siddha/Lama/Mystic/Etc can function both as a teacher and a benefactor, but it has to be a benefactor to be a Nagual. In other words, it has to have a degree of spiritual realization and the command to teach from the Spirit.
Then we have a tonal-rearrangement and nagual development going on. In all cases, the nagual/spiritual development is subject to the limitations of the tonal.
The nagual, on it's own, has no issues that would prevent an ongoing development. The tonal, I tend to say, is the whole problem.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
I would have thought that the avenues of NOTHING are even more powerful than intent!
And that as true naguals frown apon energetic attatchment....
chances are you are attatched by nothing more cleverly to a real nagual...
than you could possibly be after making such a "deliberate" attempt to connect to one!
An interesting situation... caused by energetic attachment and questioning for release and healing!
Is that often the subtle linkages in our lives which have remained in the "unknown delicate space of our undisturbed tonal"..
can never be reached by any other than ourselves...
Sometimes to expose such fragile and delicate fibres to the big bad world we percieve even if "aiming" for a nagual.
can lead to more heartache than expected!
olket%
these fragile and delicate unknown are within all beings.. apprentices and naguals...
but speaking from personal experience..
"if it aint broke dont fix it"
besides if you do find a real nagual.. I guarantee.. that if you are trying to connect to him using any energetic attachment.. he will see you as two things..
both as an opponant in power who he now has to do battle with
aswell as a student who needs teaching in the areas he tries to energeticly attatch!!
truth is.. you were both happy before.. so why rock the boat?
The truth is a nagual is NOMADIC in this world!
he seeks no connections to his sourounding people...
as by being free of energetic attachment to those around him...
he can SHARE assemblage with those who are equally free all around the globe regardless of skin colour, religion, or language..
he believes the extent of this type of connection to be a spiritual cause in itself.... Unity he feels with others like himself!
The internet opens up a whole new can of worms..
as he can now talkj to these people without becoming energeticly attatched by traditional means..
although now we have a whole new world of elctromagnetic energy. resonance, language and reason...
I WONDER IF THERE IS A BUNDLE OF FIBRES THAT BRING CLARITY TO OUR WORLD WIDE WEB CONCERNS...
NOT AS A NEW ASSEMBLAGE POSITION... BUT MORE OF AN add_on... JUST AS THE INTERNET IS AN ADDON TO OUR PHYSICAL EXPRESSIONS..
THE MICROCOSM AND THE MACROCOSM!
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
The nagual is also potentially a "petty tyrant!"
the only thing which demarcates the difference between a petty tyrant and a nagual is the way he utilises the power that he is ruled by!
a petty tyrant will willfully "watch" relationships breaking between lovers.. and will gain an emotional charge fdrom seeing their energy bodies "trying" to find unison again!
he may even call this watching of a painfull process,, some sort of seers ability!
However a nagual! Rather than be party to gaining energy by "percieving" emotional pain! decides to "stand on stage".. as such he instead welcomes a petty tyrant into his life...
and studies the emotional wound the petty tyrant feeds from.. from within the rift itself!
hence a nagual endures the most ridiculous amount of emotional angst.. As it allows him to "level" with the petty tyrant..
And begin to have energetic dialogue>>>..
across the concept of DESTINY IN ACTION
and those styles of mind that feed from DESIRE FOR DESTINY.
Essentially destiny in action.. is true love and spiritual union...
and Desire for DESTINY.. is what you experience when such relationships fail.. becasue of the vampiric perception of a petty tyrant!
DEsire for destiny.. is meaningless in terms of the future.. as obviously we want a world where ideally Destiny in action is the rule of thumb!
however desire for destiny.. does activate styles of mind which calculate how to determine spiritual order.. from the petty tyrant.. who inhabits dis-chord.
Spiritual Order... itself is an Easterly Force...
Which the petty tyrant has yet to understand as he is "anti" to the nagual desire for destiny!
if there are three riddles in our maze... We must consider what types of DESTINY IN ACTION which the petty tyrant contains.. have now fullfilled their purpose!
these are three areas of research which are lacking in the petty tyrant! and hence the three areas activated by the Nagual!
if the petty tyrant is placed in the maze.. by view of the fact "he has no empathy" and that three three holes the nagual has,, are like one bronze hammer.. to his as yet un-trifurberated (split into three)ego!
he can be slotted into the oldest TRAP of the Aztec world.. which was definatley designed pureley for this purpose....
it is fuelled by potential energy in the form of an easterly polarizationthrough the archetypal machine, a "fibre" that the human body cannot manufacture.. as he is an organic...
and the petty tyrants discord.. is stabilised..( as he is organic)s the warriors have THREE HOLES where the challenges have been completed they have become channels for undiluted easterly energy!..
As the petty tyrant is still within dischord... it is his east which needs attuning.....which is done through inherant awareness focussed on by your nagual element within his energy structure!
aligning his false re-capitualtion of himself to a) destroy his false story of himself.. B) place an illogical sequnce of emotional-energy lessons directly in his path!...
The way i figure it! WE only need to trap one petty tyrant within the three riddles maze...
leaving his "resonance with other petty tyrantsoutside still intact accross total known awareness.
Then implement the three riddles.. from easterly awareness..which he cannot possibly see YET.
to create "not a treatment for him alone" but an energy form which inhabits common planes with stable energy!
so as to teach the others OUTSIDE
a mirror of reflection exists between the outside and inside of the three riddles maze and is created by the means whith which the GROUP DIRECTION RESONATESthe petty
tyrants outside cant see in becasue one of their mindstyle.. is currently "WITHIN THE MAZE".. and is using the only pair of eyes to tackle the three riddles.....
" it is a bit like wrestling a pig by the tip of one of its bristles,,,,,,,and a lot like a way of finding a common easterly representative assemblage position for the twelve styles of mind!
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
The three riddles of man.. ARE one of the oldest energetic lineages you will find!
GIVE a man energy and he will become worthless at manufacturing his own!
And so the three riddles give energetic challenge instead.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
Philosopher wrote:
Step 1. Intend a Nagual you feel Heart-Connected. This can be done in dreaming, if you are not on a face-to-face situation with your potential benefactor.
Step 2. Ask him if he takes you as an apprentice.
Step 3. If the answer is yes, learning beyond words and guidance begins. If the answer is no, ask why. Naguals are not capricious and it would serve you to know why are you being rejected as a student. Perhaps a no can mean a "not now", provided that you are willing to fix your follies.
In the case of Taisha and Carol, Don Juan initiated them into nagualism, but it was Carlos and Carol who were their intended naguals. It is too bad that Carol never wrote a book about how a woman is trained to be a nagual, it would have completed the picture quite a bit I'm sure. All we have is Carlos' accounts of what happened between her and Don Juan, but I'm sure there is a lot more to the story than that.
As I've written before, when I finally got Don Juan to talk to me in dreaming, he directed me to another nagual, somebody who is enegetically more like me, so I can relate to the position that those two women were in. I was originally intended to fulfill the role of a "blue scout" for another nagual altogether, but that didn't work out, so I just did my own thing for awhile. Somehow, when my energetic destiny reset itself, there was still a position available for me, but this time it is more traditional. My nagual doesn't need a scout because he in already one himself, so there is no pressure on me to do it.
Anyway, I would suggest another step in the process, and that is simply to ask the nagual if he can point you towards the nagual that you are supposed to be with, if it isn't him.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
Good adition. A good/fair nagual seer would do that sooner or later. The thing is that the tonal should be ready to meet their Spirit-given-lineage.
What tends to happen is that a given nagual-teacher works as a bridge between the individual and their lineage. When the tonal is ready, the lineage pops out.
It would be refreshing that a nagual-teacher would put you on your path (or on the road to your path) from day one, but as I said before readiness of the tonal is everything. You could know your lineage without this making any difference whatsoever.
As a side note, I should add that one could hold a great number of good spirit lineages. It's a matter of impeccability and personal purposes. Question is why would anybody do that.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
LatinRonin wrote:
As a side note, I should add that one could hold a great number of good spirit lineages.
I don't think that statement makes any sense at all. The whole point of a lineage is that it is your true path, so there is just one. Lineages are not like Pokemon cards that you collect and trade. You don't "hold" a lineage, it holds you. Next thing you know, people will be trying to sell lineages on the internet, maybe a framed certificate of acceptance that you can get for $10 each....you can then hold them all.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
dreamways wrote:LatinRonin wrote:
As a side note, I should add that one could hold a great number of good spirit lineages.
I don't think that statement makes any sense at all. The whole point of a lineage is that it is your true path, so there is just one. Lineages are not like Pokemon cards that you collect and trade. You don't "hold" a lineage, it holds you. Next thing you know, people will be trying to sell lineages on the internet, maybe a framed certificate of acceptance that you can get for $10 each....you can then hold them all.It goes both ways. One is part of a lineage and one holds a lineage. A nagual is the living line. The nagual is the lineage. Without a nagual, the line ends. CC was the end of his particular nagual lineage, though Don Juan Matus is still around in the subtle.
You can have a main spirit lineage but explore (and be part of) others as well. This is beyond tonal ambition and spiritual materialism. It's about learning and growing, for those who want it.
People already sells lineages, from times inmemorial. That's what I personally regard as being a spiritual whore, for the "nagual/guru/teacher" is selling something that it's not his to sell.
A nagual is an instrument of Power, not the other way around.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
LatinRonin wrote:
CC was the end of his particular nagual lineage, though Don Juan Matus is still around in the subtle. You can have a main spirit lineage but explore (and be part of) others as well.
A person's lineage is an energy that can answer that person's questions about their own existence, and if there is a nagual of that lineage present, it will be much easier to access that energy, and probably the only way possible. Beyond just broadening one's knowledge, I can't see what somebody else's lineage is going to do for me or anyone who is not a part of it. I can't imagine that somebody who didn't know their own lineage would make much of student of anyone else's lineage either, it seems like a luxury we can't afford in our short lives. I don't think that Castaneda had any interest in directing anyone to their true path, he seemed more about having some kind of monopoly on the whole thing. Sure, many or most people will have to settle for whatever lineage has a nagual manifested, but they should at least be made aware that this is the next best thing, and not be misled about it. I think that alot of the people who went to Castaneda's seminars did not understand that they were not connected to his lineage in any way, shape or form.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
I mean, people can do whatever they want with their lives, but helping them know the facts is the right thing to do. Using animal totems as an example, let's say somebody was of the Wolf lineage, but they only had a Jaguar lineage available to them. As long as they understood that this was the case, then if they wanted to put their chips in with the Jaguar lineage, well fine then.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
Doesn't engaging with a lineage essentially mean the same thing as following a leader? I definitely believe part of the process of evolving spiritually involves accepting direction from a guru, however, I also believe the next part of the process is going beyond the guru and not following anyone.
How does this finding lineage (i.e., discovering a designated Nagual) fit within that sort of scenario?
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
Gonzo wrote:
Doesn't engaging with a lineage essentially mean the same thing as following a leader? I definitely believe part of the process of evolving spiritually involves accepting direction from a guru, however, I also believe the next part of the process is going beyond the guru and not following anyone. How does this finding lineage (i.e., discovering a designated Nagual) fit within that sort of scenario?
This is an important point. Following the leader is what we do in the Tonal, that behavior doesn't accomplish anything in the Nagual, which is why somebody's political knowhow is of no use them in Sorcery. When we say "Nagual Leader," we should really put it as Nagual "Leader," because the leader part of the title is from the Tonal. It is something that people will have to try to understand if they don't want endless frustration as the fruit of their labors. The Nagual functions with its own physics, its own laws of exitence, think of it that way, so trying to apply perspectives from the Tonal are just a make-do translation and should not be depended on for the final say on anything. If you are not getting perceptible energetic benefit from a Guru, then don't waste your time following their directions, because that's not going to make any difference. The presence of a Nagaul being is all that you need, they don't have to say anything in order to help you. If a supposed Nagual can't channel energy, then they are not a Nagual, at least not for you, and you should just move on to someone else if you are really seeking a Nagual and not just somebody who runs their mouth machine. A Nagual uses everyone in his party to channel energy even further, so this is another way to zero in on one, by meeting his students. If you feel something tangibley beneficial from being around them, and the feeling gets stronger as you get closer to the Nagual leader, then you are on the right track. Castaneda and company had tremendous energy that I was able to tap into, even though I was not part of their lineage, but, eventually, I had go down my path and not theirs. Their path is lots easier to "follow" because it has the whole corporate program going on, but, all sarcasm aside, if I was in their lineage I wouldn't complain, it is what it is.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
Another point I want to make is that you don't have to be a Nagual to know something about dreaming, sorcery or nagualism, so, their knowledge is not the thing you use to identify them by. I mean, look at me, I'm not a Nagual, and I know plenty.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
|
