Simple Question

[someguy]

Do you think the early Nagual's or seer's were or are Astral travelers too or are they 2 different things with some similar elements or both?




I cant help but think there is a similarity between "dream masters" and "astral travelers", from what I read so far in The Art of
Dreaming, he talks about the ability to see the Energy and the lines of energy flowing or as he called them and that each human has an object body and a energy
body which I do believe, and I guess the difference with astral travel is they call them "out of body" experiences but what they share is they both
have an aspect that says we as humans have an energy body, some say soul or whatever but I just want to know your thoughts on the matter.

[dreamgirl]

Hey Someguy,




Good question, I have wondered the same thing too. I think (as you mentioned) that they are 2 different things, but with similar elements. What exactly do you
mean by "Astral travelers" - I know what astral travel is, but are you refering to a specific group of people?




Dreamgirl

[someguy]

Hey Dreamgirl, I wasn't referring to a specific group, I was generalizing, to me the simplest way to describe astral travel is out of body experience, but
the more I think about it, Lucid dreaming and astral travel must be two different things with similar elements, from what I think I understand in astral travel
you are still aware of the physical dimension as well as the next dimension (less dense dimension) and lucid dreaming seems to leave what I think is the 3rd
density but is yet somehow similar I suppose, I think I have only had an out of body experience once which was very short but have not been able to do it
again, but dreaming is something I do every night. I guess the other thing about astral travel is you are aware of yourself and can direct yourself similar to
being in control during lucid dreaming but most people float or fly while astral traveling. I dont know I am trying to sort it out, but I am definitly starting
to feel engulfed in this research. I was just looking for other opinions, thanks for responding!

[Gonzo]

@someguy




If you want some interesting info re astral travel, check out Robert Monroe - he is to astral travel what Stephen LeBarge is to lucid dreaming.

[Guest]

hey some guy


i could be wrong about this, but my experience of dreaming seems to indicate that what you call astral travel is one particular level of dreaming. dreaming is
not simply limited to one level. astral travel is. so what you've got here is a situation very much like you see in geometry, where " all squares are
rectangles - but not all rectangles are squares". in other words, astral travel is dreaming - but not all dreaming is astral travel.


the point of the third gate of dreaming is that you've gained enough power to explore the physical world with your dreaming body - in real time. i suppose
this is what some people might call out of body experiencing. be aware that there is a difference between this and dreaming in the astral plane. one involves a
dreaming construct here in the physical world, and the other involves a dreaming construct in the astral world. the most important thing to become aware of is
that dreaming itself is endless. it's not just one type of experience. what you call your physical body is a dream. so is the nonsense we experience when
we sleep. so are the encounters with inorganic beings in sorceric dreaming, and so is taking a hit of acid. the only requirement for dreaming that i can see
is a displacement of the assemblage point from the place it normally occupies. so it's really just a change in perception, and for many of us, it's
more accessible while sleeping.

[someguy]

Hey Gonzo,


Thanks for the info, I will be sure to check them out!




Hey Mothsdream,


I think I understand what your saying and I forgot there are several levels or gates as described by castaneda and perhaps your right that astral is another
level or gate that one needs to find their way to.




I have read about people, Billy Meier in particular who claims to be able to "step outside of himself" quite easily which I find fascinating and wish
I could do the same and like to believe one day I will be able to do so as well as making it through the several gates of dreaming.




although I believe castaneda or Don Juan said there are 7 gates, through other research in the paranormal/ET field, 9 seems to be the magic number and there
always seems to be 9 levels, perhaps this can apply to the lucid dreaming field, but I think I may be getting ahead of myself since I am so new to this.




Don Juan said himself it took a life time to understand some of the things he was taught so perhaps there is more to it.




Since we have the internet and all this interaction and the means to gain knowledge more expediently perhaps there are more puzzle pieces to consider that were
not available back in the days before the information super highway came into play.




either way I am glad to be here learning and am thankful for your input and I will be sure to share any other discoveries I make.




there are still many books and libraries filled with what I do not know and hopefully I will be able to sustain some of it and put it to use.




but one thing at a time, I think I will persue lucid dreaming before astral travel or perhaps I will find it during my search for the mastery of lucid
dreaming.

[Guest]