My Question

[dreamways]

The big unanswered question that I have about Sorcery is one that is in regards to people who have never had any contact with inorganic beings, and never
intend to, but are still interested in Nagualism. I understand the attraction people have to it, I just don't understand what some people get out of it.
I mean, what's the payoff? I read The Art of Dreaming, Carlos says that all sorcery is Inorganic, so I get comfy with them and it all makes sense to me.
But the people who don't or can't get in contact with them, what's in it for them? To me, it's like trying to play basketball without the
ball, I don't understand what the point of it is. But, I figure most of Castaneda's readers are that type of Non-Inorganic participant, and they all
aren't out of their minds, so there must be something I'm missing.

[dreamways]

There has to be a way of dealing with people who can't actually participate in sorcery, but are totally drawn to it, without just ignoring the issue
altogether. What is the correct protocol?

[Nagual LoneWolf]

The art of dreaming should have been named Castaneda's Art In Dreaming. His findings were of a more personal sort in my humble opinion. Sorcery takes place
in the first attention and the second attention. In the second attention the sorcerer finds more easily the inorganics. Not just the ones mentioned in
Castanedas landscapes. I have met the saber tooth who taught me about breath as well. This being exists in its own world. A sorcerer can learn from organics or
what WERE organics.

[dreamways]

Nagual LoneWolf wrote:

The art of dreaming should have been named Castaneda's Art In Dreaming. His findings were of a more personal sort in my humble opinion. Sorcery takes
place in the first attention and the second attention. In the second attention the sorcerer finds more easily the inorganics. Not just the ones mentioned in
Castaneda's landscapes. I have met the saber tooth who taught me about breath as well. This being exists in its own world. A sorcerer can learn from
organics or what WERE organics.


I think you hit the nail on the head, you are actually saying the same thing that I am saying but from the exact opposite point of view. Because Castaneda
incorporated inorganic energy into his very being, the way he experienced dreaming was vastly different from somebody who does not do this. This is how I know
that Castaneda was a true nagual, because he could speak to someone like me and also like you at the same time. He was truly two completely different people
at once. So, it would seem to you that he was off on some personal tangent about inorganic beings, whereas I would just view it as everyday normal reality.
But, when it comes to things like tensegrity and the flyers, I feel the same way, like what the hell was Castaneda smoking that day?




I think that it can be looked at this way: As far as sorcerers go, another word for inorganic is fuel, and the other word for sorcery is vehicle. They are both required for transportation.

[docta lee]

I do not feel that advanced yet on the path to even determine what a inorganic being is.




does having a wet dream come close? LOL




i am serious though.

[dreamways]

docta lee wrote:

I do not feel that advanced yet on the path to even determine what a inorganic being is.


does having a wet dream come close? LOL


i am serious though.


Well, I wouldn't say that dealing with inorganic beings is "advanced" by default, the people who are able to deal with them, seem to get on with
it pretty rapidly without much effort. I know, for me, it was harder to have my first lucid dream than it was to encounter an inorganic being. What I think
we have here is a second type of distinction between nagualists, beyond just dreamers and stalkers. It pretty much just boils down to their nature, it being
more organic or inorganic. Sorcery, nagualism in particular, incorporates all four aspects, but only a true nagual leader manifests that integration.
Castaneda's level of energetic completeness is awe inspiring when looked at from this perspective.

[hdoll]

When I have merged with an inorganic being in one of lucid dreams, I have suddenly made surprising discovery. Suddenly I has really understood that all magic
is connected with inorganic beings. About them occultists wrote, about them gnostics wrote. People made a Necronomicons, bestiaries, lists with names of angels
and demons. But speech always and everywhere went about inorganic beings. And even now all modern science, medicine and astronomy speak still about seven
strips of a human cocoon and unorganics. But my colleague of the rights. I cannot transfer a depth of my insight to other people. For this purpose they should
merge with one of inorganic beings and form a symbiotic being.

[dreamways]

hdoll wrote:

When I have merged with an inorganic being in one of lucid dreams, I have suddenly made surprising discovery. Suddenly I has really understood that all magic
is connected with inorganic beings. About them occultists wrote, about them gnostics wrote. People made a Necronomicons, bestiaries, lists with names of
angels and demons. But speech always and everywhere went about inorganic beings. And even now all modern science, medicine and astronomy speak still about
seven strips of a human cocoon and unorganics. But my colleague of the rights. I cannot transfer a depth of my insight to other people. For this purpose they
should merge with one of inorganic beings and form a symbiotic being.


Yes, I have had the same realization too, that both science and magic are both from the inorganic beings. This has been a common assertion throughout the
ages, that all forms of technology have non-human origin, but I didn't take that view seriously until I encountered inorganic beings, then it was obviously
true.




Here is what Don Juan Matus had to say about inorganic beings: "The energy necessary to move the assemblage points of sorcerers comes from the realm of
inorganic beings." "The reason sorcerers have to take energy from the realm of inorganic beings is because there is no other viable energy for
sorcerers." "To fly into other realms, to see energy, to forge the energy body, et
cetera, et cetera, is another matter. For those maneuvers, sorcerers need loads of dark, alien energy. They take it from the inorganic beings' world by the
mere act of going to that world. All the sorcerers of our line have to do this."




I don't see how anyone could doubt that inorganic energy is the foundation of sorcery, but, I believe that certain types of people, the vast majority, will
never get anywhere near inorganic beings without the help of a nagual leader. I think that the reason that people like you and me found it easy was because we
were born with alot of inorganic energy, which made it a simple thing to make the connection. That doesn't make us naguals. A nagual, in my opinion,
could connect somebody with outside inorganic awareness who has absolutely no predisposition for it. A nagual would also be required to connect someone like
myself to a broader organic awareness. Unless a double-being has unified both their organic and inorganic awareness, their is no chance that they can become a
nagaul, they would not even be able to complete their energy body.

[docta lee]

I have a simple question about the inorganic's




Are the human or were they human?




If not what and who are they?




Wolf read about my dream and he said the people i saw with very whiteish faces were inorgani beings.

[dreamways]

docta lee wrote:

I have a simple question about the inorganic's


Are the human or were they human?


If not what and who are they?


Wolf read about my dream and he said the people i saw with very whiteish faces were inorganic beings.
Inorganic beings are not human and never were, but they do have ghostlike quality about them. They have told me that they call themselves the
"first born." Is that totally accurate or just the best that I could absorb it? I don't know, but if that's how they want to be known, it
really doesn't matter to me. They are just too alien to ever be comprehended with reason.

[docta lee]

Thanks dreamways




I like that you wrote this:




"They are just too alien to ever be comprehended with reason. "

[dreamways]

docta lee wrote:

Thanks dreamways


I like that you wrote this:


"They are just too alien to ever be comprehended with reason. "


I think it is fundamental to understand that Reason only deals with the known, if it can't "discover" the known in the unknown, it ignores it.
The Nagual is that part of us that is perfectly at home with the unknown because it is also unknown. The idea that there could be such a thing as experiencing
complete mystery with a totally unknown self, and have it function seamlessly, is not one that Reason was built for. So, when it comes to inorganic beings,
only the nagual side of us can deal with them and not be affected by their infinitely unknown presence. One thing to remember though, is that the unknowable
is what we can't process with either Reason or the Nagual, it can't be experienced at all.

[ARNWAY]

Dreamways this is one dam good question that you brought up about inorganic beings because unless a warrior acknowledges there existence in the arena of energy
A warrior or warrior wannabe will only limit themselves with there potential by denying there existence, I personally think that they are morbid in nature but
whether we like them or not they are "here" in this mysterious world that we live in.




The way I deal with them is that I acknowledge there existence while having my guards up as not to let them butt *** me without my approval because they will
unless you are careful, the knee jerk reaction with most people is that they purposefully shield them of with there defences but that only limits there ability
of what they really want to accomplish with there perception because you can not have one or the other or have your cake and eat it too.




I don't like them no more than anybody else because of there underhanded nature like a gypsy trying to scam you because they will be going after your
energy anyway they can get it.




I traveled with a few scouts to visit there world but stated out loud that I was just there to visit but only to return without any loss of energy by
exchanging or selling a piece of my ass.




Warriors must by the words of D.J. must mingle with there world to gather strength to fight the "Foreign Installation" fixation that is the
"real" enemy of mankind, a person must make this distinction of the energy forces that we are faced with because you will be butt fucked if you
ignore it by fearing it.




Like the statement in your post says it all and as you know and heard of fom Don Juan that the I.B. are trying to buy your energy but he says that he is not
selling it---------------------------------------------------------------------------






"The energy necessary to move the assemblage points of sorcerers comes from the realm of inorganic beings."


"The reason sorcerers have to take energy from the realm of inorganic beings is because there is no other viable energy for sorcerers."


"To fly into other realms, to see energy, to forge the energy body, et cetera, et cetera, is another matter. For those maneuvers, sorcerers need loads of
dark, alien energy. They take it from the inorganic beings' world by the mere act of going to that world. All the sorcerers of our line have to do
this." --Don Juan Matus




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[Guest]