The Knock of the Spirit

[Bob May]

"Could this type of confrontation with a Petty Tyrant be the source of the New Seers methods? Frankl's book describes many mental effects upon the
camp prisoners that were so similar to , though not in intensity, the methods used upon Castaneda, with similar results in refining his purpose and acts. These
prisoners lived with death 24-7 for years , and death could come at any time for no reason at all."




I think you have something there. Add to it Fasting (starvtion), leaving everything you know (family members killed and uprooted from their homes),


Apathy can also be seen as looking objectively at themselves as also watching themselves waste away.




"...though not in intensity, the methods used upon Castaneda, with similar results..."


You cannot know the intensity, not having expereinced it yourself. Same with Castanedas experiences.


I am sure many if not most who went through such experiences "stopped the world."




Where they went from there is another story and another path, but many rabbis were among them as spiritual councilors. And many of those were Kabbalists and
are probably still alive today.




The methods of "breaking" a human beng's idea of self have always been known and used. But to what purposes?




The ingenuity of assholes throughout history is astounding.

[Hawkeye Crow]

Frankl's study does concern transcendence , making the best of any situation. His use of getting a patient to do the opposite of his usual reaction to
cure an anxiety was especially eye-opening. Not-doing.




I am gratified that some folk at this forum are examining the 'dark side' . Know your enemy , I always say.

[Hawkeye Crow]

Know This:

[Hawkeye Crow]

EDITORIAL
Cullowhee incident an outrage at every level
ù published October 22, 2008 12:15 am
   Comments on Topix forums (click to comment):
Read all 29 comments ¯
If the person or persons who killed a 75-pound bear cub, draped Obama posters on its body and then dumped it on the campus of Western Carolina University were trying to shock and horrify, it's fair to say they were highly successful.
If they were trying to make a political statement, they failed miserably.
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First, it's not clear what statement they were trying to make.
Was this a veiled threat against Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama's life? Was it a pro-gun, pro-hunting, pro-Gov. Sarah Palin statement?
What to make of it?
Palin's photo with a caribou she killed has been publicized as part of the McCain-Palin campaign. Was it a protest against fears flamed by the National Rifle Association that Obama will take guns from hunters, which he has clearly said time after time that he will not do?
Even if the intended political statement were clear as glass, it is lost in the disgust any humane person feels for the brutal, despicable act the perpetrator or perpetrators committed.
Bear season is under way in North Carolina and the kill may have been legal, though it is illegal to kill cubs that weigh less than 50 pounds.
But the killer's or killers' disrespect for the animal whose life he or they took dishonors the tradition of hunting and shames any worthy hunter.
The deeper concern, however, is that any person who is willing to kill an innocent - human or animal - to make a political point is a terrorist, plain and simple.
Such individuals are a danger to society and should be treated as such under the law.
It's unfair to lay such reprehensible behavior at the feet of the McCain campaign. But the campaign needs to do more to quell the wrath increasingly in evidence at town hall meetings and other rallies featuring Palin and/or McCain as polls show the ticket falling behind.
The rhetoric McCain and especially Palin use as they attack Obama does little to discourage it.
A negatively charged environment
On Oct. 6 in New Mexico, McCain asked a crowd "Who is Barack Obama?" Someone yelled "terrorist." McCain paused, then continued on without responding.
On the same day in Florida, Palin told a crowd that one of Obama's earliest supporters was a man named Bill Ayers.
"And, according to the New York Times, he was a domestic terrorist and part of a group that, quote, `launched a campaign of bombings that would target the Pentagon and our U.S. Capitol.'"
The crowd booed and someone in the audience yelled "kill him."
Character attacks
Ayers was a member of the Weather Underground in the late 1960s and early 1970s. He's now an education professor at a Chicago university. Obama served on a Chicago charitable board with him and has condemned his past activities which, as Obama has pointed out, occurred when he was 8 years old.
Several days later, McCain contradicted a woman at a town hall meeting when she said she didn't trust Obama.
"I've read about him and he's an Arab," she said.
"No ma'am, no ma'am," McCain said. "He's a decent family man...[a] citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues. That's what this campaign is all about."
If that's the case, McCain and Palin should focus on issues and abandon their attempts at character assassination.
`Another destructive period'
"What I am seeing reminds me too much of another destructive period in American history," Rep John Lewis, D-Ga., said in a statement. "Sen. McCain and Gov. Palin are sowing the seeds of hatred and division, and there is no need for this hostility in our political discourse."
Lewis went on to say that George Wallace never threw a bomb or fired a gun, "but he created the climate and the conditions that encouraged vicious attacks against innocent Americans who were simply trying to exercise their constitutional rights."
The McCain campaign cried foul, demanding an apology and calling Lewis' remarks a "character attack" that is "shocking and beyond the pale."
Lewis later issued a statement saying he did not compare Sen. John McCain or Gov. Sarah Palin to George Wallace.
"My statement was a reminder to all Americans that toxic language can lead to destructive behavior," Lewis said. "I am glad that Sen. McCain has taken some steps to correct divisive speech at his rallies. I believe we need to return to civil discourse in this election about the pressing economic issues that are affecting our nation."
We couldn't agree more.
It was an innocent bear cub that lost its life this time as some deranged person or persons expressed their political rage. Next time, it could be an innocent person.
www.citizen-times.com       Asheville , NC  10/22/08

Oh Yeah , people.  Even though I am disillusioned with religion , I am disgusted with the talk that , 'no , he's not a MUSLIM , HE'S A DECENT HUMAN BEING' . This is FI at it's worst.

[Bob May]

"Oh Yeah , people. Even though I am disillusioned with religion , I am disgusted with the talk that , 'no , he's not a MUSLIM , HE'S A DECENT
HUMAN BEING' . This is FI at it's worst."




So, Are you saying you do believe he's a Muslim and you don't believe that he is a descent human being?


And that when McCain said this he was speaking as a mouth piece for his Foreign Installation?


That is pretty much how it sounds.


Never talk religion or politics at a party.

[Hawkeye Crow]

If you want a party , go tap a keg somewhere. I was paraphrasing some comments , Ret. Gen. Colin Powell among them. My point was that propaganda in the USA
these days labels Muslims as evil , while Gen Powell stated that some soldiers that gave their lives in US operations were Muslims, lying in military graves.
He , and I , take exception to bigoted and uninformed remarks about anyone. To Jesus , even the Romans were human beings worth consideration, isn't
that so?





I am Hawkeye Crow. You can also call me the 'Truthseeker"

[Hawkeye Crow]

According to authorities here , the bear was not shot , after all, but likely hit by a car , which , like deer, is a common occurrence here , as it is with
deer , elsewhere. The problem is that these authorities were showing cowardice in the face of an incident , and therefore released inaccurate info in a
panic. The rest of the story still stands. Seven students have been charged on various offenses.

[Hawkeye Crow]

I have noted this before . Castaneda's writings about perceptions note that many of our perceptions are inaccurate , based on self reflection and FI from
many sources. Scientific research has shown , within a reasonable margin of error , that eyewitness testimony of criminal events is largely UNRELIABLE.
This led to a death row project at the University Of Chicago , a decade ago , that resulted in the release of many persons on death row in Illinois , as well
as a moratorium on executions. Evidence compared to DNA samples was the reason for these releases. Also , torture and police pressure resulted in false
confessions .






Know this: You , anyone , can be in the wrong place at the wrong time ( even if you think you are such an impeccable sorcerer!) , and be caught up in a
dragnet. YOU can be put on death row even though all the witnesses admit a mistake. Then , your fate is in the hands of the court, judges , bored and jaded
with no concern for justice.




Maybe Death is an adviser , but Death on the left hand is no joke. There but for fate go you and I.

[Hawkeye Crow]

The Dalai Lama says he has given up on negotiating with China for autonomy for Tibetans. So it goes. The Indians had no luck negotiating with the Spanish or
English , an it's unlikely that the Hebrews would have fared any better with the Romans. The Toltec teachings about Controlled Folly and facing the
Tyrant become more effective than ever.

[Hawkeye Crow]

Tomorrow , in the United States of America , Nov 4 , 2008 , will determine whether I , and millions around this Earth , will continue to be slaves , or have a
chance to be freemen. This comes from the viewpoint of labor , making a living , or , just living at all. Millions struggle and starve , while the masters
live in luxury. Not much has changed since Roman times. Of course , those blessed by and trained in , Power , may survive , but do not be doped by the
propaganda , the FI.




Death waits on the left-hand at all times , and has many helpers. Life , is a dream , with few able to move the AP towards it.

[Hawkeye Crow]

If I can accept that all existence is energy configuration in various forms , which I do , then , there can be no separation between my inner self and an
outer world. That is , everything is connected , everything affects me as I affect it. Of course , there are subtleties of time , conflicting energies and
so much more I don't even know of. Still , I have my own Intent.




" Long ago you never found half a village hungry , jobless , and homeless while the other half lived in luxury. The chief saw to it that everybody
worked , cooperated , and made the village livable and prosperous. If crops were poor , all suffered alike and long were their prayers and appeals to the Great
Spirit. "





--from Princess Red Wing's 'History of the Indian Religion '





Gee , that's almost like the way the Nagual Julian did things. Of course , a coterie of sorcerers is not a village. Few are configured to be
sorcerers , it seems. There is still a nation of people needing some structure , however.

[Guest]