Angels, Heaven, God, Life after death...???

[bentheben]

I read Castaneda's books and it all made perfect sense to me. Many things he wrote are definitely correct. Many said that they have experienced things that
Castaneda wrote about, even I have many. But now, before a couple of days I came to this forum. And I saw many writing about Angels, God, Jesus and so on. Well
Castaneda never mentioned Angels and those things. He only mentioned God (in connection with human form) as something that we can feel but doesn't have any
power. But I read here about people claiming to see Angels. And I am a bit confused now. Are there really Angels? What are they (sort of inorganic)? If there
are Angels, is there heaven also? What really happens when an ordinary man dies, what happens when a religious man dies? Castaneda said that there is only one
way to become "immortal", to dodge the Eagle, keep your awareness and live as inorganic.




I know these questions are a bit odd, but anyway I'd just like to know what you think about that. Thank you for your answers.

[dreamways]

bentheben wrote:

But I read here about people claiming to see Angels. And I am a bit confused now. Are there really Angels? What are they (sort of inorganic)?


Just keep in mind that man's quest for immortality did not start with Castaneda. Yes, I would have to say that angels are sort of inorganic, but
at the opposite end of the spectrum of what we usually encounter in dreaming. If you want, you can think of them as "high energy inorganic beings."
Original nagualism was as much related to the rest of the world's teachings as anything else, but, Castaneda's teachings were very much more refined.
Sometimes I think of Castaneda as the Einstein of spirituality, like taking physics to a whole new level when most people didn't even know what classical
physics was about.

[Bob May]

He only mentioned God (in connection with human form) as something that we can feel but doesn't have any power.




I believe he mentioned the Nagual many, many times. Also the Unknowable.


Also on pg. 159 and 160 of The Fire From Within Don Juan said that the Love of God was in his opinion the same thing as the Eagles Emanations. Just a different
way to put it into words. Different perspectives from different cultures.




None of these descriptions really describe anything. Words cannot.


But much of spiritual understanding is 20/20 hindsight. Once you have an experience you are able to then recognise someone elses attempt at describing what
they have experienced.




"Are there really Angels?"




Yes.




" What are they (sort of inorganic)?"




From a higher realm messengers and helpers.




"If there are Angels, is there heaven also?"




Yes, these are permanent planes. There are at least three.




"Castaneda said that there is only one way to become "immortal", to dodge the Eagle, keep your awareness and live as inorganic."




That was his opinion. I see no evidence in his writing that he ever got past the battles of the lower realms. I believe that is what the book of Exodus in the
Old Testament is about. My teacher called Exodus "The occult jungle."




But even Moses never made it to the "Promised Land." This promised land may well be what Don Juan refered to as becoming a man of knowledge. It was
promised to Abraham (belief in the invisible and belief in God) and his seed. (Believers, not Jews)




We as human beings tend to put a ceiling on things that have no ceiling.




"What really happens when an ordinary man dies, what happens when a religious man dies? "




I don't know or care. You would have to ask one after he dies. I don't intend to be either.

[Bob May]

The Temple in the Bible is an illustration and map of awareness. Layed out kind of like concenric rectangles.


There was an outer courtyard, an inner courtyard, etc. these were available to "levels" of people so to speak.




The people could only go so far, the priests could go further, but only the high priest could enter the holiest place of all, the "Holy of Holies"
and even then only once a year at Atonement time he would enter and utter the name of God once. There was a veil that separated this inner Holy of Holies from
the rest of the temple.




At the Crucifixion, when Jesus "gave up the ghost", when his spirit left his body, this veil was ripped from "top to bottom", (implying
that it was God's doing, not man's.)


This also implied that the way to "the Holiest of All" was made available to all people.




To say that "the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand" is to proclaim that there is an invisible realm that we are surrounded by and can enter into it.




My comment concerning what happens to people after they die is,... Why wait?


Why not visit these planes now? Why not live there now?


Jesus said "I and the Father are one."


He also said "The things I do you can do also because I go to the Father."




Don't limit your awareness and don't set your ceiling too low.


By thinking you have attained something you may be limiting yourself.

[Hawkeye Crow]

My interpretation of Castaneda , If clouded by my worldview as anyone may believe , is that the idea of the Foreign Installation , a type of Inorganic Being ,
replaces Angels and Devils.




The reason for this is the elimination of Duality , good and evil. That these things that hassle human beings may be predators , but they are no different
from the predators that aboriginal man faced in the forest. That means to see them as no different than the lions , bears or tigers. That the only emotion
one should have towards them is to learn their ways for the purpose of survival. That also implies that these entities have as much a right and purpose to
exist as we do, and human knowledge should be aimed , partly , to this survival.




There are three levels of reality , according to the don Juan Teachings: the Known , the Unknown and the UNKNOWABLE. The unknowable is where God is. It is
my statement that once a human can claim that he knows God or the things of God , it becomes part of the Known and is therefore no longer GOD!




I have learned a word that applies to all those and their cults who claim to know the mind of God : Absolutism . The idea behind Castaneda's narrative is
to be fluid , flexible , able to change world-view, non-absolute, and that goes for Sorcerers as well.




Now , world religions may have much to teach , I don't slam the Bible. But , frankly , Nagualism has explained more to me , in a more direct manner , than
I ever found anywhere else. And when it comes to Sorcery as a thing in itself , I don't claim to understand it or am I likely to. Then , Understanding is
not possible with Sorcery , only experience is.




However , the Way of the Warrior is within the reach of anyone who is willing to make the effort , and it is not much different than modern psycological
discoveries. I just think it feels better , and Feelings are the crux of Nagualism and altering consciousness.




I just finished re-reading "Tales of Power" , so I'm really 'feeling it' now for sure!

[Bob May]

"I don't claim to understand it or am I likely to. Then , Understanding is not possible with Sorcery , only experience is."




The same can be said for any of the Mysteries in whatever school of thought you subscribe to.


That is why it is called mysterious.

[Hawkeye Crow]

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[Hawkeye Crow]

And again , from the last chapter of "Tales of Power"




'Genaro's love is of the world...the earth knows that Genero loves it and bestows on him its care. That's why Genaro's life is filled to the
brim...This earth , this world . For warriors there can be no greater love."




"Only if one loves this earth with unbending passion can one release one's sadness....That sadness belongs only to those who hate the very thing that
gives shelter to their being."




The wind hissed and then I heard the distant barking of a lone dog....That barking is the saddest thing one can hear......that dog's barking is the
nocturnal voice of a man. It comes from a house in that valley towards the south. A man is SHOUTING throgh his dog , since they are companion SLAVES for
life , his sadness , his BOREDOM. HE IS BEGGING HIS DEATH TO COME AND RELEASE HIM FROM THE DULL AND DREARY CHAINS OF HIS LIFE. That barking and the
loneliness it creates , speaks of the feelings of men,.Men for whom an entire life was like one Sunday afternoon....not altogether miserable , but rather hot
and dull and uncomfortable. They didn't know where to go or what to do. That afternoon left them only with the memory of petty annoyances and tedium and
then suddenly it was all over..."




Castaneda wrote prose , but stuff like this is poetry to my ears.

[ARNWAY]

Within history the interplay of the concept of angles has always been prevalent in all of mans history in one shape or another depending on how you interpret
the concept.




The question is what is the intent of angles that we can try and understand there true existences that goes beyond biblical categorization.

[ARNWAY]

I myself do not be limited to the biblical description of the true orgin of angles that are written by by people that are not in tune with history beyond the
written scriptures that are taken as the assumed factual truth of mans history.




I found that they hold to a secret agenda that does not full-fill the true history of what really happened.

[Bob May]

"The question is what is the intent of angles that we can try and understand there true existences that goes beyond biblical categorization."




Their "intent" would depend on which angels you are speaking about.




"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his ANGELS fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his
ANGELS,.."




But it sounds like you won't accept any catagorization that the Bible has to say on the subject.




Here are some alternatives.




You can go out and buy a copy of "The Greater Keys of Solomon". There are invocations and signs and sigils contained in this book that will guide you
in calling them for yourself. Then you will not have to take anyone's word for it. But I would caution you to make sure of your intent before doing this.




Also there is a book called "The Lesser Keys of Solomon", but you do not want to even read the names in that book. Very bad guys contained in that
book.







"I myself do not be limited to the biblical description of the true orgin of angles that are written by by people that are not in tune with history
beyond the written scriptures that are taken as the assumed factual truth of mans history."




Then read any book of the Old Testament concerning the subject of angels or any other subject contained there.


Because all of those books were written BEFORE there was a Bible.


So there would have been no Biblical history to mold their opinions one way or another.




That would also go for the New Testament books actually.




Another source for this type of information would be the Nag Hammadi Library. Those books were either not considered for or found not appropriate for Bible
inclusion by those who decided what should be included when the scrolls were gathered into a collection of books that would later be called "The
Bible."


Another source would be the Dead Sea Scrolls which some attribute to the Essenes.




The Book of Enoch is also good because it covers the subjects of not only angels, but the fallen angels and their offspring.


The half-breed results of the coupling of the sons of Elohim (gods) and the daughters of men.


It is thought by many that it is they who brought the knowledge of science, architecture, medicine etc., to humankind and were responsible for such
structures as the Pyramids and other advancements which are still a mystery today.


It is also thought by many that these half-breed offspring were the true origins of myths like Hercules, and other greekand Roman "gods" who were
heroes and said to be half man, half god.


The Bible calls these offspring Men of Renoun, Giants, etc.




If this is so, then Greek and Roman mythology, and books like Gilgamesh and the Illiad and Odyssey would also be related material to look into.

[Hawkeye Crow]

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[Guest]