The fog

[shamanka]

i have had,  experiences with 'The Fog', that is described, i believe in the CC books. although i hadn't read them at the time. I would like to hear from others on their experiences of it, and ask, do they use it for anything specific now...

[NagualHuman]

The fog in many cultures over the world and it's myths is an element that is bound to the meaning of mystery, unknown.
Often sorcerers come out of the fog and warriors; adventurers venture into it.

Fog is impermeable by sight and distorts the level of actual seeing capacity, that creates element of unknown, from which then the magic can appear.
In essence its destructulize the reality in it's cloak for that - then then construct of mysticity can appear.

Fog is wet, gray and sometimes cold as it is of water element; the fluidum, when sorcerers expose them to the fog, when sorcerers tend to use; experience fog it is for the reason that it allows, deeper journey; travelling across the realms, for that some sorcerers use the fog, utilizing it's refreshing effect.

Modern Nagualism is very connected within the earth, and the elemental nature of nature, as they are by virtue of Gaia created, they use the most simplest and efficient things, for powering one's self. There are four elements - Water, Earth, Fire, Wind and the Fifth Element which is in oriental tradition prescribed as a Steel in other tradition it has more enlightening meaning; effect.
Elements are just another name for patterns and their processes;behavior and it's tendencies to project dream in sort of way, across the whole time of doings of humanity.

[NagualHuman]

There is also element of suprise inside the fog properties.

[Guest]

That's really interesting NH, especially the part about the elements just being another name for patterns and their processes. I know many people use the elements in activities related to the fog and I never quite saw that its a representation for patterns and processes. Very useful for me, especially when I'm practicing magick. Thanks for the connect.

[shamanka]

have you had the fog in dreaming Kao?

[Guest]

Would you mind describing your version of the fog for me just so we're speaking on the same topic?

[NagualHuman]

Kaomea wrote:That's really interesting NH, especially the part about the elements just being another name for patterns and their processes. I know many people use the elements in activities related to the fog and I never quite saw that its a representation for patterns and processes. Very useful for me, especially when I'm practicing magick. Thanks for the connect.
 

Thanks for apprecitation Kao, You are very powerful sorcereress, you gave me quite amount of kicks in the dreams, back in time

[shamanka]

'The Fog', that is described, in the CC books....

[seesaw]

Fog is mentioned a couple of times in CC books, in two very different ways.

One refers to the 'wall of fog', a perceptual barrier that we encounter as our awareness moves from the attention of the daily world to another type of attention.

Another time CC talks about the effects of gazing at fog. The type of fog that appears in our daily world as mist like clouds.

The two things are very different

[NagualHuman]

Don Juan told me that there are many ways through which sorcerers alter and enter into another realms, but the effects are very same at them all, what is of matter is how we are able to hook our attention towards these focuses, to shoot the perception out and the more focuses, gates and all the elements viable in his realm sorcerer uses to alter and dissolve the world, the more his unbending intent is actualized.

[Guest]

Shamanka, you can vaguely reference an idea but that does nothing to assist me in making the mental leap into which aspect of the idea you're speaking on. For example, asking me if I've ever experienced 'God' does nothing to help me formulate a response to what you're really asking about.

Seesaw, THANK YOU for providing something tangible to work with.

To answer Shamanka's question now, yes I have encountered a fog. Just like Shamanka, I've experienced it before having heard about the CC version of it. I could just end the statement there, doing what Shamanka did. Though I think it might be helpful to expand slightly on what I experienced. To me, I see it as having two minds. A mind which is anchored in the tonal and another which is anchored in the abstract. I access each mind depending on context; if I'm having a tonal experience, I'll mainly reference the tonal mind (it's helpful when communicating with others who are anchored in the tonal). If I'm having an abstract/non-human/spiritual experience, I'll use the abstract mind mainly.

I can see the literal translation to the fog experience. Fog makes things more difficult to see, it can be more of a challenge to navigate because of the lack of visual stimuli. However, if a secondary sight is employed it's less disorienting.

Sham's, hows abouts yous? Got any insight to share or just gonna hold the space for us noobs?

NH, thanks for expanding on the idea. Your paragraphs were also helpful to reference. I'm bummed your area isn't around... the human anatomy and luminous egg visuals were also valuable references.

[Guest]

Seesaw, THANK YOU for providing something tangible to work with.

To answer Shamanka's question now, yes I have encountered a fog. Just like Shamanka, I've experienced it before having heard about the CC version of it. To me, I see it as having two minds. A mind which is anchored in the tonal and another which is anchored in the abstract. I access each mind depending on context; if I'm having a tonal experience, I'll mainly reference the tonal mind (it's helpful when communicating with others who are anchored in the tonal). If I'm having an abstract/non-human/spiritual experience, I'll use the abstract mind mainly.

I can see the literal translation to the fog experience. Fog makes things more difficult to see, it can be more of a challenge to navigate because of the lack of visual stimuli. However, if a secondary sight is employed it's less disorienting.

NH, thanks for expanding on the idea. Your paragraphs were also helpful to reference. I'm bummed your area isn't around... the human anatomy and luminous egg visuals were also valuable references.
(edited link)

[shamanka]

the fog i ran though the first was amber, like a sandstorm, in it i saw the skeleton on a man and the skeleton of a bird at the time i felt it was a pelican, when i ran past its edge i was in desert and in second or dreaming attention. the desert landscape was very real with the plants being so solid one could pick them.

i used this fog on numerous occasions to get to the same space in dreaming attention.

now i use this fog, although now it isn't amber, for other purposes, if someone has difficulty with lucidity and asks to dream with me, i take them to the fog so they let go of their mind, whilst going through it, therefore moving them into their dreaming body.

If the mind is strong they show resistance and their 'body' gets heavy through the fog, it drags behind.sometimes the dreaming together is abandoned.I take them back through and leave them on the tonal /mind side.

If they get through and form solidly in the desert landscape, then i have noticed a high percentage of dream recall for that person, even if, we go dream somewhere else or i leave them to have their own dream.

i wondered if anyone had come across either anything in the fog as i did, or they have also used this technique for themselves or for others, in gaining lucidity or better dream recall.

[Guest]

That's very helpful and interesting. Thank you for sharing your experience with us.

[NagualHuman]

When I experience the fog it is made only because of the participant in the shared dream, that tend to need some kind of a focus from which they can proceed to a sunlit dream mostly in forest, personally I never had experience with a fog in desert locations, but sometimes in town and then the properties of the dreams seem very alike the rocky experiences, that made me understand very much thanks for reference shamanka.
Also I have very ellusive experiences with purple fog, which seems to be made out of light more like a hue and it's essence tend to enchant very much in way that all participants feel it as alive, yet very mysterious and ellusive - very dreamlike.

I will be glad for Any kind of a reference or your experiences with this particular fog, I can't quite get to resolution what to think about it, because it makes me feel right and enchanted, but on other side it creates very unreal experiences.

[Littlepaw]

Nagual Human,

I believe that all of the mystical experiences you talk about are all lies!

Say hello to Don Juan for me while you and him are soaring past the Eagle like the impeccable Free beings you both are.

[NagualHuman]

Thanks you, it really touched my heart

I hope your path leads you, where you are ment to be, whatever anyone may say.
you are right on the path on which you are doing what you are ment to be doing.

[Littlepaw]

I am not doing so good in life the moment NH so you are completely wrong! LOL

I feel from your post that you are hurt by my brutality in calling you out in front of everyone, some of whom also may lie from time to time about the odd thing here and there to make their story look a little more impressive.

S*** I used to do it so I know how it goes. I think in the right places lying is a great tool but if it comes out of your tool box everyday the things you build will either need constant repairs or will fall apart.

I think you post with the intention to disguise what you really think rather than be honest, this is my whole problem with your behavior.

Like I said I am not doing so great in life at the moment but I still do try most sincerely not to lie to people. Especially about my experiences as a Shaman! These experiences for me are serious and mean everything to me and to be quite honest to hear you on every subject, '' oh yes I know about that'' '' Don Juan said to me ..'' '' that happened to me '' It seems like you know about every aspect of sorcery, the Warriors way and what ever other subject people are discussing.

If all of your stories were true I would be a practical novice and you would be a master sorcerer!

[NagualHuman]

Yes, I know what you mean about me and its very pathetic

anyway, I hope your life comes to better

if you are so daring to accuse me and be so brutal to me, what about you try me out once and for all ?
Brutality is the Ruthlessness and very useful tool of a sorcerer, and you seem to have alot of it so if we stand in the truth we hold for atleast. the moment, lets take that your statement as challenge okay ? Lets take that your ending - final sentence as a Warrior and lets be impeccable with what we say I mean like for very real without all lies; anyone can spot them right on sight anyway....

Lets throw the trash out ouf the way.

All you have to do is be the most brutal to me as you can be,

So do we have a deal ?

[Littlepaw]

NH,

I am trying you out. I said I believe your experiences are lies but I do not know. I believe all kinds of things that I am sure are not true. Why do you not know this?

I do not know if Don Juan talks to you, does he? I believe this is not true, is it? Am I wrong? it happens, I am wrong all the time!!!!!!!!!

But it has been bothering me for a long time. I take my knowledge and experiences seriously and I take yours seriously too! How can I take you seriously if you are not being honest about your abilities and knowledge?

Do you hope my life comes to better?

Honestly?

Last time we spoke you told me to shut the f*** up, I wondered if you would speak in to a strangers face this way.

I do not think anyone on this forum can really know what is best for another person but you act as though you have all the answers, I believe you do not know, but do you?

[NagualHuman]

Thank you for your openess, sometimes the reality we live in feels to more even more unreal and vicious.

I do not know if I can speak from a level like that, but I somehow just try to feel deep compassion with earth or humans that live here and pass through our lives.
I am glad your intention behind the ruthlessness are the one of a impeccable warrior, and it really makes me smile, once again, how close; yet far we are able to find what we are looking for.

I really do hope your life is going to be better, if you want I would love to make you believe that

Honestly, this journey, life is so fast and our ways sometimes very far from that what we strive for, that I think the only way how to truly see or count a power of another human heart, is to just get all over that and listen to what everyone tells us, not on the surface where it hurts, endlessly strives to compromise, but beneath where we strive and feel, that we are worthy of this experience life, this dream in an uncompromising way, that is the dream of dream... that for me is Don Juan.

I am sorry for my past words to you, I did not realized they could make you feel attached, and I am glad you point that out, because you truly show me that if we are able to give off ourselves; symbolically die and just passionately feel the need to make what is best for all around, yet doesn't care at all, then we live and pass by, by magic that is like sunshine.

I will atend to my life, thanks to you now in much more serious way as you made me understand a lot of things, I thank you for that
so if anyone is ready for the bussiness in like of what is written please let me know in a way that is high, simple, maybe little "otherwise" and ask or want anything you want.
I am ready to attend to my duty, I just really does not know what every single one of "you" wants.

[NagualHuman]

Be impeccable with your words and acts, but do not think about what does that mean and how you should anyhow interact, but how you feel in your Warrior's Heart that it is truly right.

[Littlepaw]

NH,

Will it help you to know that I am full of ****!

I used to be more full of **** but I still am full of ****.

I will tell you a something about myself that makes me feel vulnerable. I am very poor at the moment and living with back with my Dad, recently I stole the rest of his 1 and 2 pence coins. I did pay back the £10 I previously took but only after he complained about it.

I take things that are not mine. I feel like explaining the positive side and things I have done to change but the bottom line is still the same I am a thief.

Tell me about you NH, why don't you tell me something bad about you? admitting our shortcomings rather than defending them is, well I am actually interested to see if you know what it is?

[NagualHuman]

I am on it same like you, this is the REALITY.

I have no work, I live with my mom, I havent worked for several years, after I left school which I did not finished, I stole my mother about 1700 Euro over the time for drugs, because I am simply give a *** how bad it makes me mom feel, I constantly run out from reality into other realites of others and trying to find escape and solution that would finally make me happy about my own, because the mine is worthless, I do things for which I am not happy afters, like everyday begging out cigaretess of my mother which makes her sometimes even cry and anxious, even though noone realize and my only friend where I feel atleast a little myself is a internet, cause I can share something I feel worthy, without fear that comes when I would have to present my petty worthless shitlike face to anyone that is actually living around me in real world.

I really do not know what is real and I give a *** about that, I really does not care even for the slightest emotion of others and finding resolution within my real life, all I do is desperately dream about worthless things, illusions and fantasies.

I wanna see what you say me on that.

[Littlepaw]

I Just have allot of time and admiration for someone who will say the truth. In my world NH you have gone from someone I want to punch to someone I want to hug in two seconds.

If you are open with me it makes me want to hear what you have to say! The truth, I think, must be very powerful.

I think from what you say that you and I probably have allot in common. Before reading this I could not know. You might think your normal life is not worth mentioning but I think it is!!!

I want to get away from this house, I really messed up to end up back here at age 31. Seems to happen periodically, I will be doing fine on my own then suddenly I will get bored and ruin everything, what the hell is wrong with me?

This is how I think right now : (