Carlos Castaneda

[alien]

Both. 
The warrior chooses to open herself to power - which is a living "force".  (Use the force, Luke).
If the warrior is ready and (moreso) able, power then chooses the warrior.
An energetic marriage.

[Nagual LoneWolf]

Well said ALieN

[serendipity]

Hi scout,

whilst some of what you say regarding "followers", is quite close to the mark, your comments on CC's writings are laughable! It seems to me that, to make definite statements such as you are making, would require a considerable knowledge of the subject matter, which, - judging by your comments, - you obviously, do not have.

To mistake ignorance for expertise, seems a ridiculous error. Perhaps, you have overdone the "dreaming", and "stalking", and are now, suffering from permanent derngement?



You wrote,....."There is no way to verify the indescribable events Castaneda pretends to experience of the "nagual".

Think again. If, you wish to verify the events described, get off your lazy cynical ass, and put the techniques described, into action.

It requires effort, and that, is where most folks stall.



I have no idea who, or what, CC really was, but I can verify that, some of the practices described in the books, are genuine and effective.

I can,t help wondering, how, a con-artist got hold of such knowledge. He certainly did,nt get it by plagiarising previous works of anthropology. Maybe, you think he conned some old shaman into revealing his secrets?



Your certainty is inappropriate. I suggest, you would profit from reassessing your position on this.





Oh, btw,.........."alien" IS a girl.

[alien]

serendipity wrote:

Oh, btw,.........."alien" IS a girl.
Did you peek? 
And how are all those sheep in Scotland?  Hehheh.   (I didn't do it.  You can't prove it. No one saw me.  The sheep are lying.)

[scout1]

The non-doing of any evil,

the performance of what's skillful,

the cleansing of one's own mind:

this is the teaching

of the Awakened.



http://www.accesstoinsight.org/

[scout1]

I wrote some confused posts on CC. You can try to practice it. I did it, and failed because i was not enjoying my normal human life (= path of heart) and screwed up on CC sorcery and psychotropic drugs (on Power)

[scout1]

Relevant opinion



http://www.oldnagualnet.c...INTERVIEWS/KINDRED1.HTML







Carlos Castaneda has given in his nine books all the necessary clues to follow the warrior's path. He has presented those clues in the same fashion in which they were presented to him. Underlying this procedure is the sorcerer's conviction that the intellect has to be pricked first; once the intellect is curious about something, persistence can open energetic doors that will make direct participation possible. This answer seems mysterious and enigmatic but that is only a superficial appearance. The sorcerers in don Juan's tradition said that it is impossible for the linear mind to fathom the intricacy of the universe. Energy, as a bona fide affair that rules our lives, is not part of our understanding of the world. Another way to answer the question would be to say that if we persist in following the warrior's path, energy itself will make it possible for us to continue.

[Gonzo]

If you read the books, you find the real goal is quite simple: achieve the totality of yourself.  It has very little to do with sorcery.  It has a great deal to do with self examination (recapitulation), and with,as dJ said, properly ordering the items of the tonal.  In other words, it is a psychological effort aimed primarily at discovering who you really are and then accepting all that you find.

[scout1]

So Carlos does not seem to be very sunny-like after death as i wrote previously, ie. carlos is evil after death you fools, its very negative channel of energy after 1998, all i wrote previously is in this respect dark landspaces of afterlife. I have actually spoke with him telepathically its not so bad (with me) =) He told me: do not do this to me..



data:





Castanedas dogs



http://nagual.yuku.com/to...Castaneda-s-Dogs?page=-1

Cults And Cult Leaders



http://nagual.yuku.com/to...And-Cult-Leaders?page=-1

[scout1]

Lover and Sorcerer's Apprentice - 'It Goes Beyond Death'



http://ezinearticles.com/...-Beyond-Death&id=3005547

[scout1]

Carlos s landspaces of death in afterlife seems to be pretty gloomy destination in the active side of infity like a graveyard you wrote.





Pretty individual destination for everybody it seems to be.





==========================================



some basic notes on topic of the afterlife landscapes from world literature.





All the afterlife landscapes are basically gloomy, if your not headed in spirit to heavens (in kama-loka) or Gods realms (rupa-loka) or in the sphere of pure mind (arupa-loka). Buddhist cosmology overview:



http://www.accesstoinsigh...f/dhamma/sagga/loka.html



I recommed this book about this topic by Stan Grof full of data:



http://www.amazon.com/Ult...tery-Death/dp/0966001990





And Armando Torres s book with first class quotes on topic.



Journey thru bardo is very well described in the tibetan thanatological texts (+Sogjal R. book Tib.book. on death and Nam. Norbu R. books on dzogcen phowa)



You should always consider "dependent co-arising" or continuation in that.





The classical view is recorded from ancient Egypt leading to Mesopotamia and Greece Underworlds. Maya has a good elaborated incubators for unborn. You can map and see it for yourself with energy body (Soul). Its all located in the Cosmos.



Its the view that our being has components and there is some degree of continuity after the death.



Compare Egypt: 2 components of soul ( Ka and Ba in Egyptian original), so, the ka - spirit continues thru bardo and the memory the shadow ba withou will goes past acheron to Hades (underworld where its like hollow memory remainder the shade).



But in fact, its only one component of continuity of afterlife although there could be a remainder or emanations, but simply said the counsciousness continues to 6 realms of existence... hells, ghost-shades, demons(Jinn), organic life, titans (asura), kama loka Gods, rupa loka Gods and magnitudal states of pure mind (arupa loka).



In nagualism you have either some degree of coherence it the active side of infinity (the afterlife) or its Graveyard....





A nice shot of Ancestors world is in the end of Gladiator film

[scout1]

“ For don Juan Matus, a pragmatic and extremely sober shaman, ‘Spirituality’ was an empty ideality, an assertion without basis that we believe to be very beautiful because it is encrusted with literary concepts and poetic expressions, but which never go beyond that.



Shamans like don Juan are essentially practical. For them there only exists a predatory universe in which intelligence or awareness is the product of life and death challenges. He considered himself a navigator of infinity and said that in order to navigate into the unknown like a shaman does, one needs unlimited pragmatism, boundless sobriety and guts of steel.



In view of all this, don Juan believed that ‘Spirituality’ is simply a description of something impossible to achieve within the patterns of the world of everyday life, and it is not a real way of acting.”

[scout1]

On the afterlife landscapes



its pretty clear that after the death of physical body



that if you wont be coherent energetically you will end up in the infinity in afterlife

landscape in similar condition as Castaneda, or as one zen-nagualist practioner nicknamed Gato coined it: to be tied to a pole of Eternity like a donkey. Forever.





In the Separate Reality book by CC is cited Don Juan that some men of knoledge choose in the end to dissapper to dissolve in Infinity (something like nirvana), and not to continue, cos it will lasts aeons., its not a personal choice eitherway, its rather impersonal, cosmic.

[BarefootInTheSand]

scout1 wrote:On the afterlife landscapes



its pretty clear that after the death of physical body



that if you wont be coherent energetically you will end up in the infinity in afterlife

landscape in similar condition as Castaneda, or as one zen-nagualist practioner nicknamed Gato coinded it: to be tied to a pole of Eternity like a donkey. Forever.



In the Separate Reality book by CC is cited Don Juan that some men of knoledge choose in the end to dissapper to dissolve in Infinity (something like nirvana), and not to continue, cos it will lasts aeons., its not a personal choice eitherway, its rather impersonal, cosmic.
However, the countless stories of the afterlife as told by the participants in the show, I Survived Beyond & Back, who have had no prior training in becoming energetically coherent did not seem to fizzle into the infinity.

[scout1]

Well, i comment here on post mortem destiny of Nagualist practitioners, like ancient sorcerers, Don Juan Matus, Carlos Castaneda and those who will follow..



If You wont make it ("total freedom activity ideal", the dream of sorcerers) and wont dissolve into Infinity - the end result of advanced nagualist practitior is basically "GRAVEYARD" (and there are differences.. you can stay with inorganics, in death defiers world, in freaky places like a ghost), a hence the saying to be tied to a pole of Eternity like a donkey, forever.



But, ordinary person also takes the time after the death in some various (freaky) landscapes (like a ghost), respectively reapers with its mindstream(samtana = consciousness stream) in some of the six realms of existence.





But the problem with sorcery (nagualism) is you can end up somewhere as ghost for as long as the time lasts, for aeons, forever. Hence they saying to risk something much more than ones life.



But we are mostly ordinary people. This note concerns more advanced practitioners. Other people simply reappers after death with theirs mindstream ad infinitum until the total unbinding, the great Nirvana is reached.



Its good to know about Buddhas perspective, and i am glad i can do this service for you here, the ancient sorcerers did not know too much about karma and consequences, and got trapped or ended up terribly.



Also hells are real.

[BarefootInTheSand]

No one can know this.



What we have is actual real-life accounts of afterlife experiences...and they sound nothing like that.

[Nagual LoneWolf]

Let me quote Don Juan (POS)" Sorcerers say death is the only worthy opponent we have. Death is our challenger. We are born to take that challenge, average men or sorcerers. Sorcerers know about it, average men do not."



Sorcerers have it in them to fight death, it is true for that the ones who fail, there are those of them who never find their way and get lost in the darker worlds.



That is why stalking is so important to the sorcerer, for they can stalk themselves to break their obsessive natures and learn how they will battle death by the stalking.

[BarefootInTheSand]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai-HgIEdV7Q



Stories like this...repeated by a large number of people who have gone through it.



"Everything felt so much better...and I was so like energized. And it was just, how do I go from being tired to being tired to energized. And I look down at my body and I just see this dead kid just laying there. I was kinda like from above..."



Now to me that would be the magic moment where one should remember that they are a warrior and are suppose to do something...



"I felt very peaceful in the cave. And Robin, my friend Robin was in the cave with me. There was also a presence with us in the cave. And the presence didnt look like a human being...didnt look like anything."



A shared death experience even. Interesting how common the "presence" theme is.



Now either there is an actual death experience one experiences as they die...or one slips into fantasy in their mind before dying. However, assuming that death is a passage way to what is next...so in other word a actual experience and something we all share. Then where in these common experiences is the place and time for DJs practices?

[scout1]

I have made also this post on nagual.yuku.com (Dreamways forum) in "Castanedas dogs topic" and got banned immediately with an additional amusing insult, so it only suggests how relevant it is.



There is another idiom beside the donkey to tied to a pole of Eternity, forever - to describe this - its like to be pulled on rope (tied to the neck).. because after the death of physical body, the impersonal forces of Cosmos like Intent are running this.



Offcourse Dreamways is right about the secondhand knowledge, or the scepticism of id Barefoot co-responder - but the Buddha says like this: I see here this one stain: the stain of ignorance. And this ignorance brings danger for ignorant people of all kinds in the next world, and to be wise means to see this danger in the next world.



Nagualism has not a patent on sorcery or vision, its universal knowledge, you can find capable yogis, buddhists or taoists (or kungfu practitioner) with control of their energy body.

[BarefootInTheSand]

scout1 wrote:No, i really mean the afterlife not the NDE, Nagualist practitioners gravitate to such a fate of staying somewhere with disembodied consciousness for millenia, but this is same also for ignorant people. The soul, the capability to witness other worlds, the mythological dimension, use to be a standard position of man in Cosmos, nowadays people are left without this capability, spiritually damaged thru consumerism.



Barefoot: i dont mean the NDE experience or the ketamine experience or induced OBE, but the mindstream (use wikipedia) after the death of physical body, or the afterlife, continuation or the reappearing with some degree of continuation of the consciousness. Scientism has no place here, you can possibly verify this only by your energy body ("dreaming"), derived from this capability comes the world religious literature of judaism, christianity, islam, buddhism and so.





So I have made this warning about this afterlife issue of staying somewhere tied for eternity ( but likewise this is warning also for spiritually dead, materialistic people).
I think we are speaking of the same thing...the continium of consciousness.  Where we differ is that you are using terms from books and philosophies rather from experiences...and I am trying to tie it to actual experiences. 
They have been asking some interesting questions about the nature of consciousness because people keep their continium of consciousness even through brain inactivity.  In other words people record memories when their brain is shut down.  This sounds very much like your mindstream reference.
The warning you are saying is about getting tied any one place...do you mean like endless reincarnations into the human form?

[scout1]

Barefoot: What you are "saying" here is also irrelevant in this respect, once again, the only acceptable avenue for acceptable verification of knowledge here is: dreaming OBE techniques (the real oobe, real world, real time, real sensory channel) starting with lucid dreaming, high doses of psychedelic agents (dmt, ayahuasca, 5th2a agonists/ nmda antagonists, 5ht2a agonist/kappa opiod agonist - this is castaneda smoking mixture btw, he smoked psilotsin with salvinorin a in his mixture; complete list) or dying process itself (tibetan literature is very usefull on that), and also meditation ( or with some trance like drumming or holotropic breathwork). But the sorceric dreaming techniques, the consolidation of energy body (=energy body is soul btw), is the avenue, every other techniques are only perturbation of energy body.



What does it mean ? It means that only personal experience or witness is valid for verification of knowledge. What i have written here is only an account on that. Once again, this is the subject of energy body, for verification.



For example, read a nagual.yuku.com, here the person is reporting encounters with DJM in dreaming or Castanedas afterlife landscape.. its completely hilarious, complete fantasy without actual sorceric dreaming capabilitity.



I hope its now satisfactorily clear to you, what is a valid verification and how it differs from discourse i am presenting here whats an exercise in applied phenomenology/hermeneutics.

[scout1]

Why is Dreamways still banned, what about lifting the ban ?



Barefoot: this is not the case, not a real OBE, this brings confusions, also its not ketamine experience. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6960612.stm

[scout1]

Assemblage point, or major shift in perception (in dreaming, energy body, not in the physical body !! ) comes here to the play.. so there is this clear distinction, clear dualism - the vehicle of remote perception beyond this world is energy body, not the physical one. Drugs and NDE are rather violent means to activate awareness of distant and separate energy body. Do not confuse this issue please.

[scout1]

We should RESPECT life and death because of the danger in the next world.

[Nagual LoneWolf]

Just a note: Dreamways is not banned from these forums.