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Don Silvio Manuel, perhaps the most powerful nagual of the line of the new seers, was a very rare case of nagual impeccability.
I would personally love to know more about him, but it's not the time.
He was one with the Intent of the Spirit. He passed the Eagle with ease. How are we to emulate this level of achievement? What was his secret, so evasive to
the rest of the naguals of that line?
Since I'm the Speculator I'll just speculate about it. It's fairly simple to say, yet very hard to actually do: Silvio Manuel craft was simply
remain free. He didn't have any other wantings.
He had a link with the Spirit, but not for using it only when it was convenient for him.
He received the commands of the Spirit and lived to work them out impeccably. The rest of the time he stayed in silent heightened awareness. He wanted just
that: Remain in the AP position of perceptual freedom known to naguals.
When it was the time to depart this world, he did it in the most natural of ways. Freedom was his unbending intent. Explanations, desires, tonal adventures...
this things meant little or nothing to him.
He was a man of action, a master of intent... yet he wasn't, to the naked eye, inclined to do anything. By living to work the Intent of the Spirit, he
recieved the Eagle's gift.
Isn't that something?
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Silvio Manuel inspired no great admiration, as don Juan did. He mostly inspired fear from everyone of the apprentices. That says all I need
to know about Silvio Manuel. I say that only a fool would actually want to know him.
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Sidarthur Prospero wrote:
Silvio Manuel inspired no great admiration, as don Juan did. He mostly inspired fear from everyone of the apprentices. That says all I
need to know about Silvio Manuel. I say that only a fool would actually want to know him.
I don't think he intended to inspire fear in the apprendices. He was feared because of his power, but I don't remember anyone being a
victim of his doings.
Don Juan planned the assassination of Carlos with Doña Soledad and he is, to the eyes of the speculators, a wise, loving individual worthy of emulation. He
also killed a man with a single hit under the influence of the Devil's weed and who knows what else. Appart of his knowledge, what was nice about him?
The Nagual Julian was morbid and terribly feared... but loved and admired at the same time. Powerful and effective, he didn't pass the Eagle.
The point of the post is simply saying that the lack of self-importance, indulgence and love of freedom made Silvio Manuel more spiritually powerful than the
rest of the Party. Not more free in the end, but more powerful while living.
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Persyd:
1: Doña Soledad was personally coached to kill Carlos by Don Juan alone. He even told her about his personal weaknesses to exploit and how to entrap him.
Silvio wasn't there, because Soledad wasn't his apprentice. In any way the point was that Don Juan wasn't as nice as portrayed by his
"fans". As most naguals, he wasn't a saint. A shaman is not a buddha.
2: Silvio Manuel was more powerful and more connected to the Spirit, but he wasn't the Nagual Leader. The one that told Castaneda that Silvio was the
"worst" was Don Juan himself! Even La Gorda speculated that the true heart of that particular Nagual
operation was Silvio Manuel. They were all naguals, but some had more power and connection with the spirit.
3: The Nagual Julian didn't pass the Eagle. It's on the books. He knew it and made peace with it. I would not dare to invent or speculate something
like that without knowing! I personally love Julian, but he had his character flaws. Still he managed to produce a nagual inheritor and a working nagual party,
unlike Carlos.
This rather simple post about freedom, self-importance impeccability had two answers:
1. You are fool. (Silvio Manuel was scary... go figure! Like most naguals!)
2. You are wrong (As usual!).
Da point of the post? Completely missed. ***!
Self-importance remains a very important subject, even if you guys don't care.
It seems that most of us are more speculators than we know. At least I'm open about it.
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Persyd is right... Don Juan`s final plan was not assassination.
The assassination of Carlos was meant to go a certain way. It was to prove the superiority of Carlos.
Don Juan wanted to afirm to the others than Carlos was the leader, so he put him in a survival position.
Don Juan knew that Carlos would win over Dona Soledad... That`s how I see it.
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Perhaps it is Blue, but the truth of the matter is that Carlos survived a number of attacks almost by luck. He was not saved by his seeing, his personal power,
his double, nor by La Gorda. "Da Nagual"... the implanted nagual-energy... saved him.
Soledad wasn't a Catalina. She literally wanted to kill Carlos and take the nagual-energy from him.
Doña Soledad was a solid Nagual, so this "test" was not a late teaching of Don Juan but an insurance to keep "the nagual" within a viable
nagual leader. She failed, but she came very close to kill him... for real. He had to die, I dare to speculate, because he would not give up the
power-of-the-nagual that he got from Don Juan.
Carlos had enough impeccability to survive. Thank God for that! Still... I thinked less of Don Juan after learning of this fact. Showed me how a number of
circumstances can lead a wise, old nagual to take such a drastic decision.
Respect for life has little place in the nagual path. They take the predatory universe philosophy to far. They learn, mostly, how to become predators instead
of preys. Soledad wanted that energy to be able to eventually pass the eagle. Imagine that... killing for spiritual freedom. It isn't that easy.
This kind of not-doings just put you up in the food chain, but doesn't free you from it.
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I always saw Soledad`s attack as a test for Carlos, and mainly as an attempt to prove the superiority of carlos to the others.
Yes he did get attacked many times and survived many times. That was the plan of the spirit, and DJ wanted to show it to everyone. DJ had faith in CC, even if
he was slow to learn. He had faith in his destiny has a nagual.
Don Juan was superstitious and believed in infinity`s plan... But if you look at the attacks with a more sober attitude,
it`s easy to see that the outcome of the attacks could have been different. CC was weak compared to the others.
Also, in certain traditions, masters would kill their students if they wouldn't`t finish their formation.
They didn't`t want a student to bring shame to their legacy. It could have been the case with CC, but I doubt it.
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grandspeculator wrote:
Don Silvio Manuel, perhaps the most powerful nagual of the line of the new seers, was a very rare case of nagual impeccability.
I don't remember reading anything that said he was a nagual, I thought he was just a sorcerer. Do you know where it says he was a "nagual"?
Thanks.
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dreamways wrote:
grandspeculator wrote:
Don Silvio Manuel, perhaps the most powerful nagual of the line of the new seers, was a very rare case of nagual impeccability.
I don't remember reading anything that said he was a nagual, I thought he was just a sorcerer. Do you know where it says he was a "nagual"?
Thanks.
Hehe, you are a purist Dreamways. He was a "man of knowledge"... a master of intent... but he wasn't "The" Nagual. He had a very good
connection with the Spirit. Did he channelled nagual energy? Don't know.
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grandspeculator wrote:
Hehe, you are a purist Dreamways.
LOL, maybe so. I don't think it's possible to be a "purist" on this path unless you revert to the first way of nagualism, but
that was not Don Juan's way. Currently, I'm looking at the exact method by which one nagual passes the torch to the next nagual. The old nagual does
not lose any power by doing this, but something is done to the new nagual. The transformation of the new nagaul is not instantaneous either, there is a
considerable span of time between the point he is "chosen" and when he is actually able to perform as a full fledged nagual. It is an interesting
phenomenon.
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I read in one of the books that the new nagual's energy body is open up in half and his "nagual" is pulled out.
"Do you know why we called Juan Matus the Nagual?" Nestor asked me.
I said that I had always thought that that was their nice way of calling don Juan a sorcerer.
Benigno laughed so loudly that the sound of his laughter drowned out everybody else's. He seemed to be
enjoying himself immensely. He rested his head on my shoulder as if it were a heavy object he could no longer support.
"The reason we called him the Nagual," Nestor went on, "is because he was split in two. In
other words, any time he needed to, he could get into another track that we don't have ourselves. Something would come out of him; something that was not a
double, but a horrendous, menacing shape that looked like him but was twice his size. We call that shape the nagual and anybody who has it is, of course, the
Nagual.
"The Nagual told us that all of us can have that shape coming out of our heads if we wanted to, but
chances are that none of us would want to. Genaro didn't want it, so I think we don't want it, either. So it appears that you're the one who's
stuck with it."
They cackled and yelled as if they were corraling a herd of cattle. Benigno put his arms around my shoulders
without opening his eyes and laughed until tears were rolling down his cheeks.
"Why do you say that I am stuck with it?" I asked Nestor.
"It takes too much energy," he said, "too much work. I don't know how you can still be
standing.
"The Nagual and Genaro split you once in the eucalyptus grove. They took you there because eucalyptuses
are your trees. I was there myself and I witnessed when they split you and pulled your nagual out. They pulled you apart by the ears until they had split your
luminosity and you were not an egg anymore, but two long chunks of luminosity. Then they put you together again, but any sorcerer that sees can tell that there
is a huge gap in the middle."
"What's the advantage of being split?"
"You have one ear that hears everything and one eye that sees everything and you will always be able to
go an extra mile in a moment of need. That splitting is also the reason why they told us that you are the Maestro.
"They tried to split Pablito but it looks like it failed. He's too pampered and has always indulged
like a bastard. That's why he's so screwed up now."
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grandspeculator wrote:
"The Nagual told us that all of us can have that shape coming out of our heads if we wanted to, but
chances are that none of us would want to. Genaro didn't want it, so I think we don't want it, either. So it appears that you're the one
who's stuck with it."
It sounds as if they had more than one double being available to attempt making into a nagual, like it's hit or miss, and apparently there is
risk involved. What I was alluding to in my earlier post was the death defier method of guiding a lineage. There is only one nagual that can inherit a
lineage that is guided by a death defier, and that is the death defier's choice, not anybody else's. I get the feeling that death defiers don't
hit or miss either.
It's like there are two stories in Castaneda's books, the way things were with the death defier's influence and the way things would have been
without it.
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grandspeculator wrote:
"The reason we called him the Nagual," Nestor went on, "is because he was split in two. In
other words, any time he needed to, he could get into another track that we don't have ourselves. Something would come out of him; something that was not
a double, but a horrendous, menacing shape that looked like him but was twice his size. We call that shape the nagual and anybody who has it is, of course,
the Nagual.
So, the nagual-body is not the double/dreaming-body, it is something else entirely. It's big and scary and pops out in a surprising way.
Here's the thing, this nagual-energy-body does not account for the continuous energy that a nagual channels/radiates, that special kind of energy that is
their "flavor", that creates a common dream for their party. What I have seen is that the nagual-energy-body has its own dreaming-body, one that is
different than the dreaming-body we normally dream with. This second dreaming-body seems to maintain a continuous frequency of energy, peculiar to each
person, that causes it to glow. That glow of the 2nd dreaming-body is pure intent. OK, here is where it is important. A true nagual can not only manifest
their nagual-body, but they can also control the dreaming of their nagual-dreaming-body. The nagual-dreaming-body, for the average person, is completely out
of control, but, by sharing a nagual's dream, it can be used as a bridge to the nagual himself. As far as I can tell, a nagual can dream very differently
than what a normal person can, and the nagual's dream is what moves the assemblage point. Basically, what I'm saying is that we have a
tonal-waking-body (normal physical self) and a tonal-dreaming-body (normal dreaming and lucid dreaming); and, these are parallel to a nagual-waking-body (scary
thing that jumps out of your head) and a nagual-dreaming-body (energy transmitter and assemblage point shifter).
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grandspeculator wrote:
"They tried to split Pablito but it looks like it failed. He's too pampered and has always
indulged like a bastard. That's why he's so screwed up now."
Well, that's just sad and scary. So, I guess Pablito was also a double being and was meant to be a nagual. Maybe he really failed on his
own, or maybe the death defier had something to do with it. Maybe Carlos succeeded because the death defier planted him in the lineage for his own purposes.
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I, myself always identified with Silvio...
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grandspeculator wrote:
" I was there myself and I witnessed when they split you and pulled your nagual out. They pulled you
apart by the ears until they had split your luminosity and you were not an egg anymore, but two long chunks of luminosity. Then they put you together again,
but any sorcerer that sees can tell that there is a huge gap in the middle."
Sounds like quite an involved task, it looks like it even took two people to get the job done. I think that true naguals have a "presence" that is
bigger than themselves, like looking at the tip of an iceberg and knowing there's alot more of it underwater. The stuff I've seen in dreaming, from
the death defier realm, does not focus on this "splitting" technique, instead it is about "activation." I was told by inorganic beings
that a double being has the energy of "two suns" at their disposal, but rarely take full advantage of it. According to inorganic beings, a double
being, that harnesses the energy of our sun plus the energy of the star from where that person lived in their past life, is a "nagual." The energy
of the two suns is channeled through their heart-chakra, or nagual-body, whatever you want to call it, and the excess is radiated by the person through their
nagual-dreaming-body.
The death defiers have also shown me that there is a sort of "hot potato" of energy, which one nagual passes on to the next nagual when they have
decided to take them on as an apprentice. This is what the death defiers control, because it controls who becomes an inheritor and who doesn't. My
conclusion is that a knowledgeable nagual could create several nagual descendents but only hand the "lineage" to one of them. But what the heck is a
lineage really? And, why are death defiers so fixated on them, more so than on the naguals who lead them. I mean, if you become a nagual, would you really
care if you were the inheritor of a lineage? Wouldn't it be better if you weren't, so you could be free and clear of any unwanted influence?
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The mechanics of the nagual lineage is very unique. In other traditions, such as yoga, one or many inherit the subtle energy created by the spiritual penance
of the Guru. This energy or shakti is much like the energy-of-consciousness emanating from inorganics, but comes from contact with divine spheres.
The fundamental difference between the two "boosts of energy" if that the yogic boost has a particular direction... in other words, it will tend to
take you towards higher spheres.
Cults were made around this energy transmissions. Swami Muktananda's cult of Siddha Yoga is the most well known.
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CC had everyones beliefs from the future at his aid. thats why he got through so much, because his readers love him for what he did.
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grandspeculator
wrote:
Sidarthur
Prospero wrote:
Silvio Manuel inspired no great admiration, as don Juan did. He mostly inspired fear from everyone of the apprentices. That says all I
need to know about Silvio Manuel. I say that only a fool would actually want to know him.
I don't think he intended to inspire fear in the apprentices. He was feared because of his power, but I don't remember anyone being a
victim of his doings. Don Juan planned the assassination of Carlos with Doña Soledad and he is, to the eyes of the speculators, a wise, loving individual
worthy of emulation. He also killed a man with a single hit under the influence of the Devil's weed and who knows what else. Apart of his knowledge, what
was nice about him?
Those are all good points. I think this same theme is well explored in Florinda Donner's book, The Witch's Dream. It's spiritual
pragmatism, similar to the perspective of Aleister Crowley, in my opinion. Not very fluffy, but more honest than mainstream religions. This topic hits on
something I've been looking at recently, how different energy-bodies are perceived as inherently positive or negative. Here's how I think it sorts
out: Tonal-waking-self is positive, Tonal-dreaming-self is negative, Nagual-waking-self is negative and Nagual-dreaming-self is positive. So, the
"fun" part of nagualism is really the "nagual's dream", the rest is scary.
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All the Castaneda forums I have visited make it extremely clear that the Castaneda don Juan path is without heart. Unless the best of don
Juan's teachings are supplemented, as they were with Howard Lee, they will leave a person wasted and confused as Castaneda was after don Juan left and
before he found his martial arts instructor Howard Lee.
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Sidarthur Prospero wrote:
All the Castaneda forums I have visited make it extremely clear that the Castaneda don Juan path is without heart. Unless the best of don
Juan's teachings are supplemented, as they were with Howard Lee, they will leave a person wasted and confused as Castaneda was after don Juan left and
before he found his martial arts instructor Howard Lee.
Spirit takes no volunteers. Castaneda created a volunteer cult. Of course it failed. They all fail.
Howard Lee saw "Castaneda's show" and didn't want to have anything to do with it. Now he is having a "cult-like" tendency with his
Light of Life thingy. They are not promoting paths. They are, at most, fountains of ancient, tangible knowledge.
As far as I can see, Castaneda was a little more than a "spokesman" for nagualism. He, as a nagual, was mediocre. The only thing worthy of his books
are his experiences with real, developed naguals.
It wasn't Don Juan's fault. He did all he could for him. He knew his line ended with him. He accepted it and did what he had to do.
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I've learned that the most wonderful aspects of The Spirit of Nature are especially attracted to those who radiate tremendously sincere
and heartfelt gratitude and appreciation for all the wonderful things in their lives. The Spirit is more than willing to do wonderful things for the truly
grateful and appreciative.
You make your statements as though the Castaneda series is your only 'holy bible'. If it's in the Castaneda books then it automatically must be
true, right? So if it says that the Spirit takes no volunteers that must be true, right? I've learned that the Spirit makes exceptions whenever it may
choose to do so. It may take a volunteer or it may not depending on the situation. No matter what, if the Spirit chooses to take you as a volunteer don't
expect any 'free rides'. You will most certainly pay for you victories and advances in (((PAIN))). That's what I have learned. Pain is the currency
of the Spirit. You will indeed suffer, but for every pain you can eventually expect to be rewarded with AT LEAST ten pleasures...as long as you don't give
up.
I feel don Juan's line ended because the Spirit felt it did not deserve to survive and continue. That was not a compliment from the Spirit.
Don Juan saved the lesson of love and appreciation for the Earth until the end. It should have been the first lesson upon which all the other lessons that he
taught had their base and axis. If he was wise enough to realize this ALL his teachings would have been much more useful to everyone. Alas, I believe don
Juan's main job was to be a 'pimp' for his "ally" forces who were determined to have replacements. Don Juan was 'tricked' by them
into thinking they would let him go free. It is my belief that don Juan, and his sorcerers, did not deserve the 'eternal rewards' they were hoping to
gain from their coveted "freedom".
From what I have read of your writings I would say you are a lot more like Silvio Manuel than you are like don Juan.
That is not a compliment, Joker.
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