Whereabouts of Don Juan and his Party - Attentions

[grandspeculator]

I was reading recently an interview to Castaneda and he and the witches stated that Don Juan and his party where stuck in the second attention. They were
supposed to help them out, but they didn't know how nor the witches had particular interest in actually doing it.




I, and others, speculate that Don Juan and his party are actually in the third attention. I'll dare to speculate some more:




The attentions refer to the perceptions from a subtle or gross standpoint, in many degrees.




First attention: Perception from the gross body


Second attention: Perception from the dreaming, subtle body.


Third attention: Perception from a more subtle body, known in other traditions as causal body. (that naguals never heard of)




I read in the Parallel Perception Forum of naguals achieving a forth and even a fifth attention... but (again, I dare to speculate) it seems that they are
actually passing what could be called gates of the third attention.




The thing is that achieving a superior attention doesn't mean that you loose the perception of the lesser attention. You can actually have a far better
perception of that lesser attention. If a highly developed individual could not "go down" to a second attention he could not make contact with
anyone.




Don Juan and his Party are working in both second and third attention. They have both subtle bodies developed. What they don't have at the time is a first
attention or physical body, an option that the Death Defier does have because of his particular subtle development. (isn't he cool?)




Castaneda didn't have a third attention development, so it's very unlikely that he could know of the third attention of Don Juan and his Party.

[Blue totem]

Hey speculator, what`s up?




I think that wherever they are, they must be there by choice.


Anyway, not having a physical body must be a relief for them.

[grandspeculator]

No sex either... that's a bummer

[Bob May]

"No sex either... that's a bummer"




And to think they could have saved themselves the trouble. You can have no sex and not even get out of the first attention.

[grandspeculator]

And to think they could have saved themselves the trouble. You can have no sex and not even get out of the first attention.
Or you can have sex with a loving partner and move your AP to heightened awareness. It's good, pleasurable and ignites personal power. Sex
Magic works that way... if it is correctly performed.




I know of a latin american esoterist (first half of the 20th century) that fucked in that way every day for 25 years with his wife-priestess. He had enormous
power and realization.




But, then again, it's also a matter of intent, lack of self-importance and impeccability. Few realize that the kundalini-shakti or personal power rises
spontaneously if you are loving and selfless.

[Bob May]

All good points!

[Nagual LoneWolf]

First Attention..your eating a apple Second..your seeing a scout floating in the trees Third..your watching your first attention eating a apple and watching
the scout in the trees Fourth..your watching your third attentions perceptions before they happen Fifth..you go inside the scout and see your third attention
Sixth..same as above but now you perceive that before it happens Seventh..you see all those perceptions many years later..it goes on and on, don't you see?

[grandspeculator]

First Attention..your eating a apple Second..your seeing a scout floating in the trees Third..your watching your first attention eating a apple and watching
the scout in the trees Fourth..your watching your third attentions perceptions before they happen Fifth..you go inside the scout and see your third attention
Sixth..same as above but now you perceive that before it happens Seventh..you see all those perceptions many years later..it goes on and on, don't you
see?


I understand that description Lonewolf, I just don't agree with it. Gates of dreaming are seven and they refer to developments of the dreaming body.
Neither Castaneda nor Don Juan nor anyone from that particular line ever refer to a Fourth Attention... not even the most advanced and powerful. They
didn't even talk of the three last gates of dreaming and were not even clear about the Third Attention.




There is a gap there. Perhaps the Death Defier needs to give some clarification on the matter.

[Nagual LoneWolf]

It is all good for in conversation we can talk of things unheard of in most of the world...one thing I will add: I never limit anything. Seven gates? I
disagree..but then I have my beliefs and so do you. I seek not now to ask you to change your beliefs..it is only how I write..from within..Speculator.

[grandspeculator]

At least here I can write it. It doesn't really matter anyway... it's a puzzle for me, for others are subtle experiences.

[Vrill]

Wolf makes an excellent point. That was very helpful, especially about third attention being where one is watching oneself and the object.





like a tiny fish flashing about in a lucid pond and not disturbing it, intelligently inspect the self-nature of the person who is meditating.





The First Panchen Lama, Lozang Chökyi Gyeltsen

[Bob May]

"It is all good for in conversation we can talk of things unheard of in most of the world...one thing I will add: I never limit anything. Seven gates? I
disagree..but then I have my beliefs and so do you."




In the Qabala there are 50 Gates.


It's all good. It's all way beyond us. It will remain so even after we grow to the point of having experienced much more than we could have imagined.


That's the cool thing it's infinite.




"It has not entered into the hearts and minds what God has in store for his children."




If we can organise it or even imagine it, our concepts are still way too small and always will be. The Adventure goes on.

[Guest]