Intent

[Julio Juliopolis]

This is a thread for me, (and others), to label, define, map out, and whatever else might help in order to get a better handle on what exactly intent and will are and how to deal with them intelligently.

Disclaimer - Facts written here are not necessarily facts, opinions cited here are not necessarily opinions, and words typed in here are not necessarily words. Also the people who post in this thread are not necessarily people. Expect this post to be dynamic (that is... it'll change over time), as I'll try to improve it based on the discussion which follows it.




Muggles - Most people. Those who will not explore the metaphysical except as a lark or out of desperation. Generally, they see belief in the non-physical as "superstitious" or "crazy" and when confronted with evidence of it will say "There must be a rational explanation!", (they are trying to use the word rational to mean 2 things when they do that, both "reasonable" and "physical". The statement conveys that non-physical explanations for events are not reasonable as if by definition). Also, there's a strong bias against investigating things beyond the physical plane as being "evil". In spite of this, many if not most muggles do explore the metaphysical from time to time, (often as a lark and not a real serious exploration), and when things don't work exactly as expected they tend to use it as evidence that they can dismiss the whole of non-physical reality as false. Of course, if they weren't so biased towards thinking that those who believe in magic are crazy in the first place, the idea that no one showed up when they said "bloody Mary" into the mirror 3 times wouldn't be enough for them to dismiss the supernatural as a whole.

Physical - Condensed energy vibrating with a certain range of frequencies.

Physical Reality - The sum total of all that can be perceived with a physical body, or other physical measuring implements. The only part of the multiverse muggles tend to think of as "real". Energies which vibrate in different frequencies to physical energies tend to pass right through the physical and are thus generally undetectable by it. Radio waves and X-rays are two examples of non-physical energies that muggles are aware can now be detected with the right instruments. The waves that create the IOB world are similar but if anyone's got scientific instruments to help detect them they certainly haven't made that publicly known.

Universal intent - Universal intent is the force which dictates what happens. Everything which occurs, no matter how big, small, pleasant, unpleasant, etc. is a result of universal intent. Universal intent is influenced by all individual's intents; be those individuals human, frog, tree, rock, or possibly even the part of consciousness that is experiencing being my stapler right now. Intent, like thought and imagination, does not require words to occur.

Individual intent - An individual's intent is their own power to dictate what occurs. Their are several factors which determine the power of one's individual intent such as belief, imagination, and clarity of aim. Without knowledge of how intent works, most people tend to be completely unaware of their own use of it and how it affects their life. It is important to note that since people tend to be so oblivious to what they are intending they end up intending things they don't want to happen. Intent does not mean something one wants or desires, and a person who makes themselves anxious about something they fear will happen is actually intending for that thing to happen, they just don't know enough about intent to realize that they are doing it.

Will - Will is one's deliberate use of personal intent. Being familiar with the rules which govern individual intent and how to align it with universal intent is helpful in applying will.

Willpower - I'm still not sure this is a real thing. Generally I hear this word used to describe a fictional attribute some people allegedly possess which explains why they can achieve some things that others have trouble accomplishing. Used primarily to stroke one's own ego for having "a lot of it", or to blame one's failures on not having enough. A better word for this sort of thing would be "desire". Do you desire to smoke more or to quit more? Whichever one you end up doing is what you desired more. So control your desires and they quitting smoking is an extremely easy thing to do that doesn't seem to require any of the fabled "willpower".



To be continued...

[serloco]

Intent- The force with which one directs the power of their will. To take aim. "He intended to be strong and win the fight but in the end his will was not enough".

Will- The force behind our intent. The action. 

Willpower- The term that defines the strength and power behind ones actions and determination. "He was too strong willed to be defeated by the cancer".

[Le_Regard]

That all seems straightforward except where you could only define will in reference to these alleged muggles whose sole defining characteristic is being bad at using it.

Sorry to be difficult but you have to define "muggles" too or it goes in circles.

I mean why? Why are they bad at using it?

I think the canonical answer is children have assemblage points that move freely until adults and society mess it up for them somehow. I don't recall which Castaneda book that's in but it's definitely in there.

So no one is just born a sorcerer OR a muggle?

[serloco]

Yes they will things they do not want to happen but do not intend them to happen.

[Le_Regard]

I mean who would intend specifically to be ignorant?

FWIW in Plato's allegory of The Cave (which is in The Republic, by the way) explains that people are chained down in a cave with their heads pointed at a wall, and they don't even know their heads are pointed at a wall because they can't remember their heads ever moving before and the wall is just what they see.  And they see the shadows of things and they mistake them for real things.

But SOMETIMES something happens and one rare and special guy called a philosopher gets out of his chains and realizes what's going on and just LEAVES the cave and sees real things, in particular, the Sun, for the first time, and immediately goes crazy.  After a concerted effort, if he doesn't just freak out and chain himself back down and pretend it never happened, his eyes grow accustomed to the light and he can see things clearly and distinctly, and then the question becomes: Does he return to the Cave and help free others?

The traditional answer is yes and no, because he wants to, but if he tried they might in their ignorance try to murder their own liberator.

But as I was saying, there is NO EXPLANATION offered for how they all got chained up there in the first place.  No explanation at all.

We can maybe infer however that because the Allegory of the Cave is in Plato's Republic there is a cryptic political meaning, and they were locked up in chains by a tyrant of some kind, by some kind of unjust political regime.

So all of this together would definitely indicate that not only can WILL, as PERSONAL INTENT, be used unskilfully, it can also be used UNJUSTLY.

[Pixie Dust]

Le_Regard wrote:
I mean who would intend specifically to be ignorant?

FWIW in Plato's allegory of The Cave (which is in The Republic, by the way) explains that people are chained down in a cave with their heads pointed at a wall, and they don't even know their heads are pointed at a wall because they can't remember their heads ever moving before and the wall is just what they see.  And they see the shadows of things and they mistake them for real things.

But SOMETIMES something happens and one rare and special guy called a philosopher gets out of his chains and realizes what's going on and just LEAVES the cave and sees real things, in particular, the Sun, for the first time, and immediately goes crazy.  After a concerted effort, if he doesn't just freak out and chain himself back down and pretend it never happened, his eyes grow accustomed to the light and he can see things clearly and distinctly, and then the question becomes: Does he return to the Cave and help free others?

The traditional answer is yes and no, because he wants to, but if he tried they might in their ignorance try to murder their own liberator.

But as I was saying, there is NO EXPLANATION offered for how they all got chained up there in the first place.  No explanation at all.

We can maybe infer however that because the Allegory of the Cave is in Plato's Republic there is a cryptic political meaning, and they were locked up in chains by a tyrant of some kind, by some kind of unjust political regime.

So all of this together would definitely indicate that not only can WILL, as PERSONAL INTENT, be used unskilfully, it can also be used UNJUSTLY.

I really like what you touched on here. I certainly see the moral responsibility to the issue at play, but there's a risk factor too. Many don't want to see the sun. They desire it, like freedom, but when faced with it can become overwhelmed. There's a deep sadness too, in the realization that we were born slaves. Chained. Facing the sun can be like facing our own ignorance. Many choose not to as it's excruciating. They often return to the cave to slip their shackle around their neck.

Many attack those who are trying to help free them. It's fucking awful. It takes a real a$$hole to put up with them after being bit and covered in a fresh layer of scars. Eventually, one learns a gentler approach. Until they're bit, then all bets are off and people get forcibly removed.

It's a lot to consider, certainly.

[Le_Regard]

I don't think it has to be entirely coercive.  People probably ASKED to be citizens, at first.  It's very possible that they paid a high price for it, even.  But the chains solidified over time until the next generation actually *believed* all the small compromises and petty white lies, until sooner or later maybe the lies weren't so petty anymore.  Sooner or later the compromises that let us interact meaningfully and work together on projects and just generally get along without killing each other become something else, whole stories, whole books, whole LAW SCHOOLS even, to justify the ruling class continuing to rule and the servant class continuing to serve.

But I digress...

It could also be a lot like sitting down to play a videogame and it turns out the videogame is so much fun you never get back up again.

I also don't know if INTENT can be responsible for everything that "occurs", now that I think about it.  I could also say responsible for everything we experience.  "occurs" seems to give it some measure of reality, like it occurred "for real" and not in an MMORPG.

For the uninitiated, that is a "Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game".  We experience both, both occur.  INTENT both reveals AND conceals, evidently.

[Le_Regard]

The only consistent thing is to drop #2 and #3 and accept that INDIVIDUALITY is the illusion and ONLY intent is real.

But on the other hand, here I am.  Hello.

I suppose existing independently is just inconsistent.  That's probably why it can't last forever.

You know the Moon goes around the Earth because it's TRYING to stop?  If it could, it would just FALL.  That's how gravity works.  It just keeps falling at the Earth and missing.

Similarly, I would imagine that individuals like ourselves will keep trying to explain intent.  And missing.

[Le_Regard]

If we can at least spin our wheels as long as possible without doing that thing people always seem to do where we draw a circle and get in it and then everyone IN the circle who agrees with us is right and saved and everyone outside the circle is a muggle, well... I mean...  I would just be happier with that.  But what do I know?  I just explained away my own existence.

[serloco]

It simple. Let me give you a real world example. And since children are mentioned I will give an example of a common intent we are taught to intend. The intent of illness and death. The child is taught that, lets say, 1 out of 7 people get cancer int heir lifetime. Now the child believes this, and knows he is a human subject to the same fate. The child learns over time to not only intend his death, but to not intend his death as well. The child intends that he is a common human, intends that he could get cancer and intends not to as well. The child's intent gets split. Same with catching a cold. When people say a cold is going around the average man intends the possibility that he catch one. He subjects himself to the same blueprint of his fellow man. Never intending his choice in the matter. Never examining the other possibilities to intend. 

Le Regard, you intend your fellow man to harm their liberators. That is your judgement. I suggest suspending it before you ever try to free your fellow man.

[Gabriel64]

Will is what you want to happen

intent is what actually happens
(rosygyro)

THAT!

[serloco]

Gabriel64 wrote:
Will is what you want to happen

intent is what actually happens
(rosygyro)

THAT!

Very backwards. Why would they call it intent then? Do you really intend for your will to only be what you want to happen, and your intent to be what really happens? It just doesnt make sense. You intend.... what you want....

[Le_Regard]

serloco wrote:
Gabriel64 wrote:
Will is what you want to happen

intent is what actually happens
(rosygyro)

THAT!

Very backwards. Why would they call it intent then? Do you really intend for your will to only be what you want to happen, and your intent to be what really happens? It just doesnt make sense. You intend.... what you want.... 

Ugh...  look I just don't have it in me to do the whole rape thing again.  So let's just take that script as read.  Sometimes bad things happen to good people and denying it doesn't help anyone.

[Le_Regard]

Le_Regard wrote:

Ugh...  look I just don't have it in me to do the whole rape thing again.  So let's just take that script as read.  Sometimes bad things happen to good people and denying it doesn't help anyone.

Excuse me.  That should have been a reply to the one about helping your fellow man, because you can trust everyone all the time, and if a snake bites you its your own fault for intending that snakes bite people.

[serloco]

You are the one who accepts the knowledge that snakes can and might bite you. That is YOUR intent. Like it or not.

[Le_Regard]

I think the whole point of differentiating between Intent and Will is that no one asks you what you want to happen next, things just happen, and maybe not all of them are always a lot of fun.

Like maybe YOU, the guy in your picture and the name on your passport, are not really the sole arbiter of your destiny and maybe this Intent thing has other plans and maybe you're not going to like them.  If you exist at all.

[serloco]

"A hunter leaves very little to chance." - don Juan

[Le_Regard]

Maybe I'm just screaming into the wind here, but in the Carlos Castaneda books there's this thing called The Eagle.  You exist in order to increase The Eagles awareness.  When you die, The Eagle eats you.  You basically exist so The Eagle can eat you.

Alternately, you can feed The Eagle all your awareness NOW, and then it eats your awareness but leaves your life force intact and...  well I don't really remember what's supposed to happen next.  But this is definitely in The Eagle's Gift.  This one remote chance at immortality is definitively the Eagle's gift.

If you're doing something else, I don't know what it is.

[serloco]

No, you feed it a duplicate, a carbon copy. Been there done that. Next.

[Le_Regard]

The Eagle isn't stupid.

[serloco]

I asked the Eagle one day all about it. He wrote me many songs. Bottom line is he was created by sorcerers of ancient times. My God closed my gap and saved me from the Eagle. However the Eagle and I get along quite well.

[Gabriel64]

Will is what you want to happen

intent is what actually happens 

A hunter/sorcerer leaves nothing to chance.  He actualizes the reality, Duh

commands. actualizes.... in other words "intends" 

'Next' is right ... oops too late... you missed it waiting for your will

[serloco]

Be careful, its not only in the books you know......... muahahahahaha!

Will is not what you want to happen.. That is intention. Big difference. Intent and will are part of the same force. Just different aspects of it.

[watergaze]

I like that the word intention came to the stage of this performance. 
Intent and intention show very clearly that intent is not intention, and neither is will.

As the saying exemplifies: The road to hell is paved with good intentions . Intentions here are something that you act out or plan to act out. But you do not actually want to end up in hell. There is a mismatch in what you think the result of the actions will be. You do not focus on the end goal (which is what intent does) but on the acts you think are good.

You need unbending intent to become whole and pass the eagle. Intention is not enough, nor is it the same thing by far. There is power in wishing though and in hoping. It is the beginning of unbending intent. This is why it is dangerous to squash your or others wishes, hopes and dreams (of this kind). Intentioning has, therefore, a place in it all too.

Intent is linked to our heart and soul. Which is why wishing, hoping and dreaming are so important as well. Without that the will has nothing to manifest.
The dreams, hopes, wishes help in creating the image. Intent then sees the goal. All of these - dreaming, hoping, wishing, intending - go beyond ourselves into... hmm well what to call it... infinity or spirit. And that infinity/spirit can then come back to us, can guide us, guide our will...

will is what you use to move about in real dreams. and this is a great hint as to what will actually is. it is what moves things/you and it is what gets you to that goal. Without will you'd just keep dreaming and hoping and most likely not get anywhere.
That is how will and intent are part of the same force.

[watergaze]

serloco wrote:The child is taught that, lets say, 1 out of 7 people get cancer int heir lifetime. Now the child believes this, and knows he is a human subject to the same fate. The child learns over time to not only intend his death, but to not intend his death as well. The child intends that he is a common human, intends that he could get cancer and intends not to as well. The child's intent gets split. Same with catching a cold. When people say a cold is going around the average man intends the possibility that he catch one. He subjects himself to the same blueprint of his fellow man. Never intending his choice in the matter. Never examining the other possibilities to intend.
this is a very good point. something splits in us... the child does not have the choice in intending death as this is something spoon-fed. However, it does not want to die and it does not want it's loved ones to die. And this is its wish, hope and dream it can become a conscious intending. If fueled and groomed it can become unbending intent. 
But we are not given the tools to understand this can actually happen. And even while wishing and hoping, we undermine it by saying that it is not reasonable or a real thing that can actually happen - that is the spoon-fed part of us. 

It seems to me that belief not all too powerful though. It is not the same thing to believe that one can fly - deranged individuals have in the past believed they can fly and jumped to their deaths. What is the difference between fully believing in something and actually it being so... that is an interesting question imo.

Do some people just try to blindly believe something (is that the same thing as erasing opposing beliefs that we were spoon-fed so there is no more contradiction?) and would actually jump to their death if they tried? or would they fly? .

P.S. For those coming a bit later into the discussion about will and intent. Here is where it actually began: unbending-intent-versus-being-stubborn- ... ml#p135273

P.P.S. CC's quotes on the topic of Will: https://willproject.org/history/biograp ... castaneda/