The 1st gate of Dreaming

[Mornings Son]

When Dreaming was entered I made 3 shifts looking at my foci then objects. It was an intense dream where the characters got irritated that I broke the talking to glance at the foci... StrangeAlso my foci - both arms - was inside a sort of thin spacesuit... Strange

In the following Dreaming I could see my arms all the time like in a computer game - two arm on the lower part of the screen... Strange
Man I almost lost the dream because it was so ridiculous and i could not take it serious at all.. I looped on the thoughts... then back in dreaming

[glance left]

yeah, I know exactly what your talking about here. It's difficult to stay centered because everything is so strange, intense and bustling with energy...it's easy to get lost in weirdness of it all. Takes a special kind of focus that kind of goes with the flow, no matter how weird things get, and yet doesn't get swept away in all the details. Sometimes I'm able to go through several portals and keep my attention intact....but frequently I lose my dreaming energy or get swept into non-lucidity by becoming absorbed inteh details

[Dreamer32]

glance left wrote:I agree, there is more control for sure when entering directly from waking attention.

For me, once I become lucid...once I've past the first gate...it's all about the second gate. Finding portals to other dreams and maintaining lucidity upon making that transition through the portal.


If you have readen carefully "the art of dreaming", you´ll see that Don Juans cheates Carlos at the begining telling him that the 2nd Gate is about changing dreams. Later on the book, he discloses what the 2nd gate is all about: finding inorganic scouts and following them into their world. Crossing portals like mirrors, windows or wathever and not losing attention is a nice training anyway.

[glance left]

yeah, I followed a scout to his world once. Almost got stuck there! Was a very close call....had to use supreme politeness and innocence to extract myself

[Mornings Son]

Well we are moving in to the 2nd gate of Dreaming... time to make a post about that ))

[glance left]

I agree Here's my feeling on "gates". And I'll preface my statement by saying this is my feeling and has nothing to do with trying to commandeer the perceptions of anyone else. We each have to navigate our own path, more or less and, in doing that, we choose based on the options available to us. Power chooses the rest

For me (again....this is simply my perception of things...that's all ), the "rules" that were laid out for CC with respect to dreaming are not hard fast rules. They were for him because he made an agreement to uphold the tenants of the lineage that don Juan was the holder of. Thus, for him, the various gates was all about jumping over very specific hurdles...accomplishing very specific tasks, one of which was to follow an IB scout to his world....which would then lead him to a decision which was a kind of test....a kind of test that would help in determining which bent of character that CC operated under; that of the old school sorcerer's...and that of the new school seers. Turned out that he was kind of a hybridization of both....but even that's up for debate.

So, yes.....I did the whole "follow the scout to his world" thingy...though the result was not what CC experienced, specifically. Looking back, however, and taking into account what I want for myself in terms of enhancing awareness and learning to stretch my wings withing that space of enhanced awareness....I'm not interested in the whole "scout chasing" phenomenon as it related to the second gate. That phenomenon has to do with the old sorcerer's and their unique relationship with IB allies. Which is fascinating, but which I don't feel compelled to get that deeply involved with. It's just not my thing. And, to be clear, not something which I want to judge in any way whatsoever if it is someone elses thing . In terms of the second gate, I'm more interested in the phenomenon of simply learning to hold onto awareness upon moving through portals from dream to dream....and "following a scout" is really just another portal of a very specific variety. But to me, the ultimate value is the same. It has value in enhancing awareness....of maintaining cohesion. The relationships are fascinating along the way...interactions with other dreaming awarenesses and IB's.....all just incredible and magical! But the key for me is simply maintaining cohesion, as best I can, amidst these interactions...which are all "portals" in one way or another

[Mornings Son]

Glance I get your point. As you, I have before done Dreaming explorations and been to IOB world as well. I do not like that kind of IOBs much. Then why do I take the Gates up now, when I achieved much more in Dreaming that just becoming aware and lucid? It is time for me to examine the teaching of Don Juan and therefor I go by the book and it is a good way to get my Dreaming skill in good shape again as well as polish the details of the Dreaming awareness. Like this one about working with focus on objects in Dreams.
About the IOB I will follow that up in the tread on the 2nd gate of Dreaming. There is other kinds out there than those Don Juan played with. 

What is interesting Glance is what path did you find for mastering your Dreaming awareness?

[glance left]

That's easy! The Path of the Church of Silent Intention

[Mornings Son]

amen )))

[Mornings Son]

amen )))

This is a bit like i recalled the IOB realm, yet it was more like the structures the Aliens make 'Aliens' movies in my Dream perception of it





(Edit: merged separate and consecutive posts by the same author into a single post.)

[Dreamer32]

glance left wrote:In terms of the second gate, I'm more interested in the phenomenon of simply learning to hold onto awareness upon moving through portals from dream to dream....and "following a scout" is really just another portal of a very specific variety. But to me, the ultimate value is the same. It has value in enhancing awareness....of maintaining cohesion. The relationships are fascinating along the way...interactions with other dreaming awarenesses and IB's.....all just incredible and magical! But the key for me is simply maintaining cohesion, as best I can, amidst these interactions...which are all "portals" in one way or another
 
To hold awarness and maintain cohesion is the purpose of the 1ºGate, not the 2º. To "go with the flow no matter how weird things get" has nothing to do with taking control of a dream, it is in fact the opposite. The inorganic presence, once it has established, looks forward to involve you in weird things, because it likes to eat your emotions (something they lack and therefore crave for). If you don´t face the entities, you are losing energy for them, and therefore you tend to lose your dreaming attention. They don´t look agressive, allways there, standing static, but in fact they are interfering your dreaming content very wisely to get your emotional energy.
Everything in a 1ºGate dream is either your mental projection or the mental projection of other beings. Thus, to go for the truth in a 1ºGate dream involves to go for the inorganic, because it is the only "real" thing there. Once they start to interfere, there is no way out but to follow their game and become a regular source of food while you live wathever adventure they invent for your amusement, or to stop flying around and face them, taking therefore control of the dream by guiding yourself the contact... something they will probably take with a very happy "at last!", What would you do if the salad you are eating starts to talk to you asking questions? Would you keep eating it or maybe leave the fork on the table to involve with it into a more interesting "contact"? Well, it´s the same.
The final goal there is to become aware of your dreaming body, till then, you really don´t move, wathever illusion of flying or racing you have, you are in fact static with an inorganic being in front of you sucking. If you could energetically move, you wouldn´t be accesible to the inorganics anymore, and that´s the goal. Now, in order to gather enough energy to do this, the only proceeding is to travel to their world, full of energy. That energy is the "only" reason a new cycle sorcerer travels to the inorganic world. It is very clearly stated by Don Juan that the energy in that world is sadly the only source of energy avaiable for sorcerers to travel to other dimensions. Moreover, you can´t gather enough energy by dreaming while the inorganics eat it every time you get lucid, so, if you want any sort of progress, the most reasonable thing to do is to re-establish the relationship with them in a more "equal" manner and start commercing energy, instead of merely getting robbed.

[glance left]

"The final goal there is to become aware of your dreaming body, till then, you really don´t move, wathever illusion of flying or racing you have, you are in fact static with an inorganic being in front of you sucking. If you could energetically move, you wouldn´t be accesible to the inorganics anymore, and that´s the goal. Now, in order to gather enough energy to do this, the only proceeding is to travel to their world, full of energy. That energy is the "only" reason a new cycle sorcerer travels to the inorganic world. It is very clearly stated by Don Juan that the energy in that world is sadly the only source of energy avaiable for sorcerers to travel to other dimensions. Moreover, you can´t gather enough energy by dreaming while the inorganics eat it every time you get lucid, so, if you want any sort of progress, the most reasonable thing to do is to re-establish the relationship with them in a more "equal" manner and start commercing energy, instead of merely getting robbed."

Maybe what you mean to say "my final goal is...." "I really don't move,...." "I am in fact static....." I can't gather enough energy by dreaming...." "if I want any sort of progress..."

Speak for yourself, Dreamer32.

Wow, nice image MS! What happened when you got there?

(Edit: merged separate and consecutive posts by the same author into a single post.)

[glance left]

Wow, nice image MS! What happened when you got there?

[Mornings Son]

Glance.. it would be right to post this in 2nd gate tread ))

Nothing much happen, they tried to seduce me I resisted and was there for awhile. Can't recall if had any side effect of the visit

[glance left]

NP, MS...I'll take any further second gate conversation over there

Safe to assume that, if you resisted when resisting was the better option, you're now stronger for it.....as a side affect

[Dreamer32]

When I said "you" I was refering to anyone, not to glance, we spanish talk this way normally.
Well, about the "moving" question, I recognise there was some misunderstanding. We are energy eggs, we have no arms and legs. Energy eggs move by the force of will. Obviously I talk about the flying, running, jumping or wathever. The fact of "changing dreams" is of course a movement of the assemblage point, and thus a moving. But this moving isn´t controlled "by will": you decide to move, but you don´t know were you are moving. To learn to move by will is to be able to move like you whish, and were you whish. A baby moves obviously, but he can not organise his moves in order to walk, it schould be regarded as similar. According to Castaneda, the first real energetic move of a sorcerer isn´t done by him, but by the scouts who transport him to his world.
Now, in my experience, through many years of lucid dreaming I´ve watched myself dreaming many times, travelled far through the space, transformed myself into jaguar, learnt to create people and landscapes, to change dreams through different techniques, spinning, crossing windows and mirrors to appear in astonishing environments were I hold conversations with another "me" and with a paralell family, and many other things, but those contents are mostly still on the realm of mental projections, either my own or the inorganic's, they are an interpretation, cause both you and the world out there is made of energy, not of things.
I was never able to "move" to a precise place till I got some experience travelling to the inorganics world and talking endlessly to the emissary, who gave me many useful council, (among other non usefull at all). I later managed to go there and back by myself, and since then, I´m able to move by intent inside a normal dream, like attaching myself to distant objects and teleporting there, or attracting them to me. Thought I still don´t see myself as pure energy, I already see many things as energetic, like the inorganic beings (well, not allways). I also enter to dreams directly from waking conciousness, much of the times this happens by isolating energy bubbles in front of me, usually blue ones, which have to be "stopped" by holding inner dialog and entered by intent (if the content you see from outside feels "nice"). Since the massive inorganic exchange I did last months (and not anymore) I retain much of that energy and I think it is therefore I can get lucid every single time I go to sleep; Still didn´t manage to change dream to this precise reality, which is my goal.
Dream forums schould be useful to read for others, just to tell what you can do is not usefull, but better to explain how to do it and the dangers, crossings and point of view on how to do it. That's what I was writing before, cause I think I found some clues on how to deal with inorganics, having done it quite a bit.
Well, that is my point of view.
Cheers

[Draco Fellicci]

Doesnt matter what we know about experience, but what we do in the experience real-time.

[Mornings Son]

last night when sleep hit the body and awarenessI looked at my foci
used it
gazed at the scene
it was a blurred cave entrance in a mountain wall, lots of plants and a few big stones
It took time to see these objects
Then I look at the entrance.
It became clear to me that I had very much control over whatever Dream I intended to go to
heh
Recall diving in to Dreaming vividly, then I was waked up

[Gestblinde]

A technique that helped many is to memorize two objects, say whenever you enter a shop or visit your job.. It might be anything but preferably something semi-permanent like say a painting or a chair perhaps.
This made 1st gate dreaming a bit easier after a while.

[DoktorGreen]

One time, while sitting against a big tree with a mentor, I shifted to higher awareness. This time I was able to hold it for a time. He told me to anchor my sight on a bush just in front of me. I did that, noticing some very strange things about the bush and it's shadows! Then, he said to become aware of my physical shoulders and neck.

Now, he said, keep your attention on the bush and turn your head side to side. Where is the bush?

Right there in front of me.

Did you take your eyes off it?

No.

Which eyes are watching the bush?

[Hawkeye Crow]

As one who had to work in industry, I never had time to keep a log. Nonetheless , I have had great adventures in dreaming , which would have gone unnoticed until I learned to pay attention , and take Dreaming seriously.
I found this item online this past week. It seems that some in the modern world have discovered Dreaming by other means.
I notice it does not reference much Native Indian sources (Don Juan or Black Elk not at all).  Perhaps that's a good thing ,  as it leads to more universal awareness.
Hawkeye
http://www.alternet.org/personal-health ... 46369&t=17
Sleep Raves - Have You Ever Been Part of a 'Oneironauticum'?
 Maybe It's Time You Tried
Humans have been using oneirogens to hack dreams for pretty much as long as we’ve been doing anything.
By Jennifer Dumpert / Van Winkle'sNovember 24, 2015
Original published by Van Winkle's, a new website dedicated to smarter sleep & wakefulness, published by Casper.Shop
It’s midnight in a warehouse space in downtown Los Angeles. Instead of bouncing to a DJ, a couple dozen strangers snuggle down into sleeping bags piled and prepare to listen to a different sort of music. Somnium is a seven-and-a-half-hour composition by Robert Rich, specifically designed to optimize the dream experience. I hit play and climb into my own cozy nest.
At the same moment, people around the world do the same, preparing to listen to the track in their own bedrooms. Tonight, we’re an intimately connected community of dreamers.
We’re participating in the Oneironauticum, a worldwide slumber party I launched in 2008. It’s dedicated to the exploration of oneirogens — substances, sounds, scents and practices that intensify dreams. The word comes from the Greek oneiro, dream, and gen, to create. They work.
It is in our DNA to experiment with substances, and the urge to experiment with consciousness is an inherent part of our makeup. As kids, we roll down hills and press the heels of our hands against our eyes; as adults, we take drugs and have sex, dance ourselves into trance states or seek out the runner’s high.
Dreaming is the original altered mind state. It’s also the most universally experienced one. We all visit bizarre, visionary worlds during the third of our lives we spend asleep. (!)
It’s not surprising, then, that humans have been using oneirogens to hack dreams for pretty much as long as we’ve been doing anything. In ancient Greece, pilgrims flocked to temples of Asclepius to seek healing through consultation with early doctors; working with dreams was understood as being integral to healing. References to lucid dreaming appear in the Upanishads, the sacred Hindu texts that date back to at least 600 BCE. The Vigyan Bhairav Tantra describes ways to direct consciousness within the dream.
For many, consciousness experimentation motivates their experiments with oneirogens, but they’re used for a wide range of other reasons, too. Some traditional cultures, including the Chontal and Xhosa, used oneirogens to contact ancestors and bring back teachings from the dream world. In Tibetan Buddhism, lucid dream practices underscore the unreality of the world and help practitioners prepare for the Bardo. Siberian shamans used wild asparagus to induce flying dreams; today, an herbalist might suggest rose, rosemary or sage to prompt healing dreams.
Oneirogens themselves are consumed or practiced in a wide variety of ways. Some are teas and ingestibles that need to be taken or practiced at specific times during the night, as they are tied to specific sleep phases. For example, those that target the hypnagogic first state must be taken at the beginning of sleep or during naps. Particularly fast-acting oneirogens that target REM, such as galantamine (see below), are best taken after you’ve been asleep for five hours, when periods of REM sleep start to grow longer.
Sound and scent make excellent oneirogens, too, as hearing and olfaction are the only senses that aren’t completely muted during sleep. With scents, your brain probably won’t recognize what you’re smelling — and they won’t necessarily wake you up — but studies have shown that different odors have specific effects on dreams. And in dreams, you can smell things wafting in from the waking world just fine.
Similarly, when you’re asleep, you can still hear, although it’s hard to know how your dreaming mind will translate what your ears perceive. Many apps provide audible oneirogens, including Dream:ON, iDoser and Yumemiru, and long soundscapes have been composed to stimulate the dreaming mind. The latter include Robert Rich’s Somnium and Max Richter’sSleep, which was broadcast live on the BBC in September. As an oneirogen, music also has the advantage of being easily accessible.
In my case, I’ve spent eight years experimenting with oneirogens, resulting in this catalog of their usages and effects. If you decide to try any of them, keep in mind that not everything works for everyone. Many factors contribute to how well an oneirogen will work for any individual. And while these substances are legal and considered harmless, it’s wise to check with your doctor beforehand, just in case.
***
Calea ZacatechichiWhat is it?
This flowering plant is used by the Chontal natives indigenous to the Mexican state of Oaxaca, where there is a strong tradition of visionary plants. Traditionally, calea is used for oneiromancy, a form of divination based on dreams. The Chontal believe that dreams happen in realms beyond those we consciously perceive, and that the contents of dreams can convey meaningful messages or prophecy. They further maintain that calea clarifies the senses so the dreamer can more clearly perceive insights and bring them back into waking memory.
How does it work?
Smoked or steeped into an astoundingly bitter tea, caleahelps induce lucid dreams. It also produces incredibly vivid sensory experiences in the dreamworld; hence, it’s sometimes referred to as “the dream herb.” It often leads to memorable tastes, vibrant colors and beautiful, unidentifiable scents in dreams. Once, in a calea dream, I read a long text — a notoriously difficult thing to do in dreams.
***
Somnium
What is it?
During the 1980s, electronic musician Robert Rich performed a series of live, all-night concerts for sleeping Bay Area audiences. To maximize dreaming, he composed pieces that alternate sound textures to match the phases of sleep. The key of the pieces was to keep the mind as close to consciousness as possible, without waking it out of the dream.
How does it work?
In deep sleep, when the mind dives far below the surface of consciousness, the music becomes more active. During dream-rich REM sleep, when brain waves vibrate at the same rate as they do in an alert waking mind, the sound becomes quieter and more peaceful
Interestingly, this particular oneirogen sometimes brings participants into each other’s dreams. People also tend to dream of the place in which they’re sleeping. Working with Somnium, remote participants have often felt that they met the main group in the dream world.
***
Mugwort
What is it?
Perhaps our most frequently used oneirogen, mugwort, actually refers to several species of plants in the Artemisia genus. The plant’s oil contains thujone, the active ingredient in absinthe, and can be made into a tea. Dried mugwort can be sprinkled with mugwort essential oil, if you really want to go for it.
How does it work?
Mugwort supports long, epic, detailed dreams and also seems to improve dream recall. People interested inastral travel also claim that mugwort can help with the sensation of actually leaving one’s body. In Korean tradition, mugwort hot baths or mugwort steams taken late at night are used to induce vivid dreams.
***
Galantamine
What is it?
In its organic form, galantamine is an alkaloid derived from the bulbs and flowers of various plants. The form we use comes from red spider lily. Used to treat Alzheimer’s and other memory impairments, galantamine temporarily increases the brain’s levels of acetylcholine, a neurotransmitter that plays a very active role in dreaming.
How does it work?
To use this substance, set your alarm for five hours after you go to sleep, a time in the sleep cycle when REM sleep phases begin to get longer. When you wake, take eight mg (capsules are best) and fall back asleep.
Galantamine is the best quick path to lucid dreaming. Besides increasing the duration of REM, it seems to stabilize the structural coherence of the dream world. I first tried this oneirogen during a workshop I took in Hawaii with dream researcher Stephen LaBerge, who conducted clinical trials that concluded galantamine produces an almost six times greater likelihood of having lucid dreams.
This oneirogen also produces a much greater quantity of dreams. You may wake in the morning with the feeling that you’ve been active all night.
***
Silene Capensis
What is it?
This flowering herb grows in the Eastern Cape of South Africa. The native Xhosa people traditionally use it for their form of oneiromancy. The Xhosa believe that silene capensis facilitates communication with the ancestors, who provide guidance or prophecy. They call the root “Undela Ziimhlophe,” which translates to "white paths" or “white ways.”
How does it work?
Traditionally, the powdered root is placed in water and then whipped into a foam, which is then eaten. Remarkably enough, in certain individuals this oneirogen does produce dreams that feature wise figures or teachers, as well as the color white. Even without these traditional characteristics, Silene Capensis dreams often seem particularly meaningful.
***
Binaural Beats
What is it?
Although they’ve been around since the 1970s, binaural beats are currently undergoing a resurgence of interest thanks to certain phone apps that can so easily produce them.
How does it work?
Tones or frequencies are used to entrain brainwaves. When two different frequencies enter the head through the right and left ears, the brain synthesizes the difference between them. This creates a rhythm that stimulates or triggers a brain state.
Today, the vendors of apps that produce binaural beats claim to be able to produce all sorts of mind states, from drug experiences to emotions such as confidence or love.

[Hawkeye Crow]

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/nat ... eNum=90371
I am the dreamer AND the dream, of course.
"Sometimes dreams are wiser then waking."--Black Elk (Hehaka Sapa), OGLALA
The Great Spirit has many ways of communicating with the human being. He talks to us through the five senses; sight, hearing, taste, smell, and touch. For example, we can observe nature and see a lesson or get an answer.
These five senses function primarily in the physical world. But we also have the ability to receive communication from the Unseen World.
 To do this we have a sixth sense. It comes in the form of dreams, imagination, intuition, inspiration, or a hunch. Along with the dream or intuitive thought there is a feeling, a knowing. We just know it's true without the need for proof.
We need to pay attention to our dreams and intuition. Don't cast them off as being silly or useless. Be respectful to our dreams and feelings.
Creator, if you speak to me through dreams, let me know it in terms I can understand.

[serloco]

The way i see it is that you are intending from a waking state to control elements of your dreaming. It crosses a barrier, a way station. See you are intending your waking state to be the boss of your dreaming. Like an infiltrator you are entering into your dreams and taking control of them. It gives your waking state more authority. You begin controlling them. I prefer to let go more, and imagine that my dreaming states are more greater then my waking awareness of dreaming. I don't know of all the marvelous things my dreaming body can do. I would rather let go of my waking state of lucidity and see where my dreaming body leads me. I have great intent for dreaming but no intent to take control my dreams from my waking state. I would even rather allow my dreaming body to take control of my waking state. This way I can intend cohesion on another place of reality and existence further then my waking awareness can conjure or attain. If I am t intend dreaming from a waking state then I intend that my dreams take over me, and take me far away from what I know. To teach me and show e all that I can become. Beyond what i know, and what i can tame. Show me the secrets of the far and deep beyond. I yield to my dreaming awareness.

[Guest]

serloco wrote:The way i see it is that you are intending from a waking state to control elements of your dreaming. It crosses a barrier, a way station. See you are intending your waking state to be the boss of your dreaming. Like an infiltrator you are entering into your dreams and taking control of them. It gives your waking state more authority. You begin controlling them. I prefer to let go more, and imagine that my dreaming states are more greater then my waking awareness of dreaming. I don't know of all the marvelous things my dreaming body can do. I would rather let go of my waking state of lucidity and see where my dreaming body leads me. I have great intent for dreaming but no intent to take control my dreams from my waking state. I would even rather allow my dreaming body to take control of my waking state. This way I can intend cohesion on another place of reality and existence further then my waking awareness can conjure or attain. If I am t intend dreaming from a waking state then I intend that my dreams take over me, and take me far away from what I know. To teach me and show e all that I can become. Beyond what i know, and what i can tame. Show me the secrets of the far and deep beyond. I yield to my dreaming awareness.
That sounds like a good place to return to

[Guest]