2nd Gate - what is the purpose and benefit of it?

[Mornings Son]

Going through the Art of Dreaming again.
I have come up to the point in Dreaming where finding scouts of IOB and asking them to take me to their realm is what is next to do. 
Don Juan did not like them at all nor doing it, it seems to me. 
I wonder if any of you can explain to me the importance of going to IOB realm and what effect it have had on you to do so.

[Littlepaw]

I remember Don Juan saying something like the energy needed for dreaming comes from the iob world, tried to find the quote, it is in The Art of Dreaming somewhere, thought I would know it by heart having read it so many times!

[serloco]

I have spent over 10 years studying IOB's, don Juan's linage and the lineages before him. Many of the great people in his lineage fell prey to them, but only through their own self-importance, and negative judgements they had formed of their world. Even the building blocks of human's world is formed from dark energy. It is the free space upon which the bricks are set for the world's foundation. With dark energy even the bricks of light may be made to crumble and reform into new patterns. It is an energy that releases locked potential, the known forms of reality. I can change myself, and other humans into iob's now, and can move iob's to many different positions, from watching them and learning from them. I can command an iob to 'have the power and desire to move a mountain' and then watch as they do this, learning from them directly this art. I can have them place within me the consciousness and knowledge needed to perform these feats as they do, and then do it myself. This applies to any art. When you set the power for the being to do something then they can do it, and when you set the power for yourself to see and to learn it directly then power forms to this way.

If you are self-important, so mighty and so great, better then everyone else, then you will most likely form the consequences of being so great, be sought out and hunted, and your power stolen from you, for them to have. If you think your life is so valuable that iobs need it for themselves, then you have set power in this way. If you form a world that needs you in it and without you are doomed, it is no surprise that within that form of creation they will seek to trap you and sustain you indefinitely. Surprised? I'm not. Either way you are giving them what they need, form and awareness, however if you arfe wise you will form the awareness you seek to form, useful forms, and useful power, yet be aware that they do not need you at all. Form an awareness that allows them to exist without needing you, as well as potentially being equal in every way. They are pure awareness and so they know what you know already because they see you.

Form a friend, gain a friend, form an enemy, gain an enemy.

They throw me parties in the streets and decorate thier cities to my will and awareness gladly. They teach me anythign I want to know, including how to go home again. But when i judge them to the form that will not let me go for whatever reason then I reap that path for myself, and it MY fault not theirs. I have denied them in some way, limited them in some way, and it is my fuel that has set their form into that motion, my awareness, my knowledge, my judgement. THAT is all that they trully need, and it does not matter the form they take, they are indifferent, yet also anything, every form imaginable, and so friend or foe is within yourself. They foprm to your awareness, you move them and thus they move. They even teach you the essence of how to move them because that is really what you are doing anyway, but they will teach you the awareness of how to move them willfully and with control and awareness. But if you diss them, hurt them, are mean, and hold a judgement in you that says when you treat them poorly then retaliate as humans do, then watch as they do that, because YOU have that awareness within you. Some masters can have iobs do anything, even kill themselves with no remorse or desire to live in any way, because they have suspended such importance within themselves. Forming allies that will do anything you need no matter the cost. Indifference. Loyalty. These are the aspects to stalk within them and to form. Not your petty fears and self-importance that you spread like plagues into the iob's because your fuel is what moves them. Know thyself.

[serloco]

I'm sad now. Very sad. I discontinued dreaming practices for over 6 months and secluded myself in myself in my apartment, rarely leaving into the city and not making social contact in the world. The people I intended to be normal again, like people, humans again. I had almost forgotten how they are. Today I was forced into the world again and saw many of my own creations every where I looked. Echos, reflections of my life seen through the crack and painted on the walls. I spoke with people again and I saw them. Fake people, actors, hiding. I prefer the ones who are honest about it, but many are not and hide. I can always see them though, and they always slip up too. Know things they shouldn't know unless they are seers, telepathic, or watchers. Most hide it though, and pretend. But like genero I always see them, and they are no longer real to me. As he said phantoms. I shook that percpetion away many times, and just entered into the seer world, like an iob world, or alternate human dimension. But I wanted to go home again, and it almost is home except for all the changes I have made to this world, and there are so many. So many things i have done to this world that i when i was younger would have never dreamed possible, yet more to come surely. But i gave up and wanted my parents, my family again, and the normal people I used to know. But they are not the same. Almost sometimes, I almost make it, but it SLIPS!!!! I see them again. I push it away and ignore it and in doing so can almost dismiss it without thought. But who am i really fooling? It can never be the same, and maybe that is good, because the world moves on. We wouldn;t be where we are now, all the advancements we have made, the progress, and the future is coming and I see it clearly, I have set it myself and it is great for us too. But this feeling I have, of being lost is almost too much to bear. I wander in the streets and they form around me from shadows, and the street signs reflect my thought in this very moment, forming in sync with my command and thought. The human world was solid, already formed, an entire earth they say. Its not like that for me any more, and I do not know if I can fdind it again. I thought I could, but I see them, and I see the world form around me. Its a twin position I am in. So many memories I have buried away and forgotten, some of them unretrievable even, because I knew that the alien perceptions of these beings was too much for my mind to bear, and I saw that i could never return to normality again if I remembered some of those things. And that is all I remember about those positions, the intent and command to remove my memory completely. Oh i remember many alien people and many things far out, but these things I knew i could not keep in my mind because it was too far. I can master memory but I cant seem to get those memories back and it bugs me too, because I want to know what I knew. Maybe later, but I knew then that i was so severely alienated that I knew i could not keep them and made the decision myself, and so maybe I should just leave it be.. I made this city, and many of them, and the people even tell me in the streets that they like my city and I say thank you. This was my norm for a long time, we would work together too in many ways. But I want home now. I want my mind to be kept to myself, and to not be seen by all the people around me everywhere, naked, wide open, exposed. I got used to it though, but i hid for awhile and forgot. Now I am naked and they see me again. "you let me slide and when they looking,
you let me hide.... You see right thru me... how do you do that"- Nicki Minaj.

Well that's my sharing time, my message in a bottle floating through space. I miss you humans, I miss you earth. I AM thankful for all we've learned, and will never let you go. I will always be able to see trees, earth, soil, plants, and sky. Moon, and sun. I love you. I just wish I could find normal people again too. I wonder if they were ever real, ever normal. When I look back through my recap I can see it different ways, from different points, and am afraid if I look too close I may find that it was never real at all.

[Mornings Son]

Thanks for the deep post on your experiences with Iob realms. I must admit that i'm surprised that only you have written a response.... I thought that there where more experienced Dreamers here !!
It give me inspiration to go visit them. You explanations rings true in my ears and makes sense. 

I will be back to this topic

[Mornings Son]

As for the personal post I would like to respond to it, but it seems off topic.

- We are alone, yet we can meet.

Childhood is gone forever though

[glance left]

I just alter my perspective...and focus on the pure awareness inherent in all the "actors" I see (including "me" !) and give my attention there. Amidst all these...shenanigans....iobs and people...all simply encapsulated awarenesses who, in order to be encapsulated and therefore dreaming, have to play these roles which are, perforce, silly simply because they don't really exist at the fundamental level of things. Amidst all these absurdities, there is a confluence of awareness that is exploring....and it is vast and intelligent and curious. And when I focus on this level of things....well, all my sense of morose despondency seems to dissolve. I can retank my joy..and then come back to the world of dreams with all its absurdity with renewed interest. I can dream again. The key, for me, is to retank at that level of pure joy...power....awareness...that is always there way down beneath no matter what is going on "up on the surface"...as frequently as is humanly possible

[glance left]

The second gate of dreaming...can only be appreciated from the perspective of the truth of the third attention, is my feeling for myself, if only for myself. It works, the sneak-peeks I've been afforded....because the sneak peeks, which shed light as though through a briefly cracked-open door, dispel the illusion for a moment and puts everything into perspective. It instantly solves the seemingly insoluble issue of self importance, which is the only foothold that all those "IOB snares" can lay hold of....the unshakeable belief that I even exist as anything permanent whatsoever. As anything ANYthing whatsoever. And so, simply touching upon this knowledge directly unravels the issue instantly...VAMOOSE! It's gone. And knowing its gone makes coming back to "it's here!" a pleasure every time. Then I can explore without fear or despondency. Without judgment....I mean, who's there to judge....or to be judged? Nobody, nowhere. It's a dream, and why not? Why not a dream filled with all this interesting stuff.....idiots and geniuses.....kings and peasant....angels and demons...and everything in-between. Sure...of course! It's an interplay....a game of exchange in any infinity of manifestations, or whatever you want to call it. It's funny....actually.....if you look at it from the right angle. I measn downright hiliarious! But only when one sees the underlying truth, if only for an instant. I'm telling you, when I adopt this central stance, I don't even get a second glance....from all those hungry "friends and neighbors". I just become your everyday Joe Blow.....and that is totally fine with me!

[Gugeyewalker]

Serloco posted about some stones and dark energy, and I wish glance left's post was plain english. 
But I belive little paw is essentially correct per Art of Dreaming you need IB energy to be able to 'move' with the dreaming body.
I think I've been there but not in a particularly lucid state and not via a scout. Been in some tunnels, but at first it always appears to me as a large spaceship, or enormous electric jellyfish island.

I also get a sense of great dread TBH. Something about me feels terribly uneasy about some realm out there as if it has a gravitational pull that is nearly inescapable. Cant wait to move onto the 3rd gate, last time i was into this I was kind of stuck. Maybe I am too self-indulgent.

[Littlepaw]

Ha ha your so rude!

[Gugeyewalker]

Littlepaw wrote:Ha ha your so rude!

Ineed! Pompous too.

[Guest]

thanks for this guys, your replies were very interesting
serloco - i cant remember if i asked this before but what does it mean to turn humans into iobs? i kinda get what you're saying but feel that you could probably help me understand this better.. perhaps i need to see iobs in my life before i can understand
glance left - from yours and serloco's post i get the fact we need to erase self importance to have any positive encounters, i also managed to see from the perspective of a perceiver, taking dj's statemnt, 'we are perceivers', before self importance, the fact we are points in infinity, getting back to basics for me, it is very powerful to perceive this way, without self importance and limitless.i learnt that learning sorcery is well and good but i need to remain focused on the goal of the third attention, i had almost forgot about it

[serloco]

Well for myself when I first learned to go into the iob world I asked them to teach me how to move iobs and ultimately people in my world as well. They taught me the easiest way was to use my perception of them, and interchange that perception between them. The result was not knowing he difference between an iob projection of a human and an actual human. What happened is much like the old seers who used to change their ap's position to match that of their allies, and humans became the ame perceptions i had of iobs. Everything is you idea of the world and once your awareness perceives iobs then you can use the force of your perception to perceive humans in the same fashion. The result at first was my first perception of iobs, although shallow at the time, they would always tell me what I know of the world. WHen I shifted that perception they would also shift with me and tell me the new state of my perceptions. After awhile their forms began to change as well, and I could perceive humans as even advanced beings, with many special abilities. Incredible perceptions as all it is is your idea of what even humans are. WHen the lines between the iob realm and the human realm become blurred then you have no choice but to perceive them as nearly the same. WHen you perceive the world in any way, shape or form, then that is the reality you align to your ap.

[Guest]

yes like i thought, 'once your awareness perceives iobs then you can use the force of your perception to perceive humans in the same fashion', i guess im not there yet.
im not trying to rush but i have noticed a lack of patience in my progress, it seems i want to run before i can walk, i will continue to wait to see what shows up. im looking for instant results and when this doesnt happen i go to the extreme of 'nothings working, whats the point' which is obviously completely detrimental to my progress.
maybe im trying too hard and i need to chill out a bit more, i mean youve mentioned before how it takes time for this to happen, and i get that. ive noticed a trend in my life where i try to do too much and all at once, and this only sets me back even further, i need to curb this as it has seriously negative effects

[serloco]

Well you can start by intending iob projections into your world, and working with allies. Allies are present in human for in our world, and in animal forms too. Human allies will tell you what you know, because they see your position of awareness, and so when you listen to them they will tell you what you shoud already know about the world, and yet when you shift that awareness they too will shift with you. You can listen to allies speak and the words they tell you will be important and you can learn a lot from listening to them. They teach if you tell them to teach you. and shift of focus of attention onto an ally will result in a shift of awareness of themselves, and the even the world around you. An ally human, or a group of allies can project into your world and even take you to a parallel plane in the ally world, where everything i the ally. They can take you into the iob world and teach you how to alter your perceptions in great ways. When you listen to them intend for them to hook your attention and consciousness and begin listening within yourself, and without (onto them). They will enter into your awareness so long as you intend them to. It starts with paying attention to the beings speak around you, and also listening to what is within you while you listen. This will form a bridge form within you and to the outer world, the allies, and you will begin to see a telepathic communication take form. This is because allies have pure awareness, which means they can see everything about you, and what you are thinking and perceiving and they can teach you great things as result.

[Guest]