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@sikimiwa -
You have yet to voice an opinion on whether spiritual guidance ought to be free or not. You have implied it ought to be free, and you have implied you are in a position to provide guidance. Songbird has answered sufficiently in my opinion. What of you? Or is it your intent merely to engage in combat with QS?
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Mornings Son wrote:
Why am I facetious? Yeah why do you think?I don't know. You profess to be Zen oriented - one of Gonzo's "unconcerned men." You seem quite concerned. Heh. Why?
It's all rather silly when you think about it.
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sikimiwa wrote:
Maybe she and QS will see someday, most likely- they wont, and never will consider my questions (or where they are coming from), which is again a pity. QS will keep grabbing copied wisdom out of books and bend it to fit her like a slipper,
You have me confused with The Google Guru. Heh. On the rare occasion I quote a source, I reference the source. Sorry to disappoint, but I'm capable of reading AND writing (unlike you, who really needs to take a course of grammar, spelling and word use). Warefare... that was a good one.
Songbird is chosing to just lurk and read, because she has the nature of a coward, or considers herself "better" than this.
For someone claiming to be so spiritual, you are awfully judgmental. Might want to take a closer look at that, since THAT is what started this thread in the first place. Your "innocent" questions were judgments, and I believe you know that. Now you're pointing the finger at the very person you judged. Amazing.
Perhaps, even seeing me as unworthy.
Your insecurity and SI are showing, too, while we're at it.
Ive offered to chat with her privately to which i get no response. And here i sit, typing sick with Vanity. Im afraid the only way i would be able to continue working on this thread is through private message.
You might want to consider Gonzo's chat room - although I'm sure you're already there, which is a huge part of the problem. Easier to sit around judging others in a chat room than to do the hard work required by the path. But you go right ahead. Seems to me YOU are the one who needs to learn some difficult lessons - like not starting something under a pretense of innocence, then playing the injured party when someone calls you on it.
BTW - if you want to ask me any questions, go right ahead. I'm not talking about "loaded" questions, but real ones. Why not move on to something of far more importance and value? I promise not to copy my answer out of a book, nor will I charge you a single dime. You may not like my answers, but who cares, eh? At least then we could argue about something a bit more interesting.
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Sikimiwa...
It also seems rather odd that you came onto the forum and headed straight for this thread, and as far as I can determine, most if not ALL of your posts are in this thread - which is about... nothing. Hard to believe you didn't come here with an agenda, all things considered. Otherwise, why not post in other threads about something that might actually matter? What Songbird does, or what anyone else does... what difference does it make? Really? If you don't want to pay for my workshops or books, no one is forcing you, and ditto w/ the services offered by others. So that's MY question. Why does it concern you so much when you've already made up your mind?
So instead of just blatantly deciding that someone is a fraud, why not talk to them WITHOUT an agenda and see where the conversation leads?
Just a thought.
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quantumshaman wrote:
So instead of just blatantly deciding that someone is a fraud, why not talk to them WITHOUT an agenda and see where the conversation leads?
On that subject, I should also mention that there is a contact form on the Website ( http://www.dreamwhisperscoaching.net/#!connect) that goes direct to my email. So that, Skype, the email address given, chat at my forum, PM either here or there are just some of the many ways a person could contact me if they sincerely desired communication. Sikimiwa hasn't used any of these channels, fyi.
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songbird wrote:
quantumshaman wrote:
So instead of just blatantly deciding that someone is a fraud, why not talk to them WITHOUT an agenda and see where the conversation leads?
On that subject, I should also mention that there is a contact form on the Website ( http://www.dreamwhisperscoaching.net/#!connect) that goes direct to my email. So that, Skype, the email address given, chat at my forum, PM either here or there are just some of the many ways a person could contact me if they sincerely desired communication. Sikimiwa hasn't used any of these channels, fyi.
Probably because any direct contact via email would reveal their IP.
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QS im concerned because of our connection, but it is not really concern is it ;-)
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unless one know how to stalk in the net QS....
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Dear Quantum SHAMAN,
How many times do i need to pound it into your head that my questions are sincere? this is getting comical.
What makes you think that this thread is less or more important than the others? Ive been on this site for some time. True, i havent posted much, if at all.
But i had some questions on this one in particular. They questions that bother me for a long time. I found a thread. So what??
All i wanted to know is what justifies you to charge for these services,( and i really do not want to hear about your cars and time and money and all your ****.) HOWEVER! if that is your reason, so be it.
i have no more questions in the case! If you use it to support your life. This is the answer? good. got it.
I had no agenda with the question, but as the thread grew, my nature likes to throw wood in the fire, oops.
(Forgive me Oh Wise One, English is my second language. I think my English is lamentable, too, all things considered. Again you retort to insult me where it does not make a difference. nice try though) you can not offend me. it is not possible at all in principle. you can not limit yourself.
you have the classic worldview of
white people with a complete set of templates this worldview.
you do not have more right to a opinion about the issue (as it really is) than i have this right, i realize.
and i can not explain to you either within your worldview. this operation, is not worth the work, (even without taking into account the problems with
my english and grammar.) you are trying to get a detailed explanation about the things that
should not have a discussion in the general access, too. i think i have also crossed that line. at the same time you
show fanatic love for the templates. how should I react to this?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hello Gonzo!
I will try to answer your questions as best as i can.
"you have yet to voice an opinion on whether spiritual guidance ought to
be free or not."
Thank you for your question. first of all, i am very interested in your chat, if you would grant me the permission to maybe have a conversation or few sometime.
About being free or not. I think i have made it clear that i am not in agreement with charging for services. these reasons are layered, but ill keep it simple, you seem to be a man who can read between the lines as they say.
this knowledge has always been free. it was always here, and will always be here. its free now - it will be free still when the capitalists all die. it is ancient. this knowledge Wakan Tanka gave his children for free, and his children taught it to theirs, and so on.
Story time: (worth the read i promise)
""There lived the "Master of the Good Deeds in the world." Master had a
lot of Tools. Sometimes the thieves came and stole the Tools. And even
if the Master could return the Tools, the Tools would no longer work
correctly. Then the master would start throwing out these Tools and
making new Tools. Theft of Tools was not a big problem for the Master.
Sometimes thieves did something good with stolen Tools of the Creator,
and then if the Master returned back to the Tools, it worked even
better. The Tools could train cases that have been made with their
assistance. In other words, if the thieves worked of skill with the
Tools, the Master can do Good Deeds even better, when these Tools
returned.
Master was old. Master left his Tools for his Children and go out to the Great Mountain of Death.
Children wept and began lamenting to the Master. The Children kept the
Tools of Master and the memory of his good works for a sacred manner.
Children repeated the motion and the master with his Tools. These
movements were the most valuable, what was left for the Children of the
Master. And the Tools masters could remember how to do Good Deeds only.
Children of the Master could not do Good Deeds, because the world around
constantly changing and this required adjustment skills. Children of
the Master is very proud of the fact that they have the Tools of Master
and that they know how to do the correct movements of the Master. Old
movement from the dead world of yesterday could not work, because they
too were dead.
A people came to the Children of the "Master", a people who remember the
Good Deeds of Master and they looked at children of the Master, and
looked at movement of the Master. Their eyes were tears of sadness. A
People who admire came more and more. And then the Children of Master
said to these people: "Your admiration for it is very tiring for us. You
keep saying the same words. Moreover, we know that you have a stupid
thieves in your ranks who would steal our Tools and our movement . And
this is the most valuable thing we have. Get out! Give us to enjoy the
cherished memory of the Master and his Good Deeds in peace!". Many
people left in tears. Many remained in the hope that Children will
forgive them. Many stupid thieves stole Tools to and sell to others the
memory of the Good Deeds of the Master.
The soul of World dying slowly without the Good Deeds. And then, some
thieves realized that they must restore the production of the Good Deeds
at all cost. Despite the fact that they will be cursed children of the
Master.""
Because it will most likely be argued. Yes we have needs in modern society. Electricity, food (ha ha ha) transportation, bills...however this is conditional. We have to face the music and just work a damn job. that is part of the condition of humanity right now, and should be thankful for to give you those things we "need". Again, there is an example of what Wakan Tanka gives us. we are simple provided for. Work of Wakan Tanka is not just "some job" you can pull money in with. it is sacred knowledge, with a specific motive- and should not involve self interest. to abuse it, "in my opinion", is bad and a sickness.
You have implied it ought to be free, and you have
implied you are in a position to provide guidance
i would like to talk more about this in a private message, if that is okay.
Songbird has
answered sufficiently in my opinion. What of you? Or is it your intent
merely to engage in combat with QS?
I agree. I realized that i had gotten my answer on the first post, it was my hope and maybes that made me keep prodding until it bled.
I will admit my combat with QS is not in my best interest. because i already know where it goes too. i wish it were just my opinion.
[-]
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Sikimiwa...
Your latest post strikes me as simply false. Rather like a mama bird pretending to be injured, putting on a show. Sorry, but that's just how I'm reading you.
I notice that you start talking about "white people", assuming I am white. Interesting, that. When all else fails, play the race card.
If you really wanted to talk to me, you would talk to me. *shrugs* I can only assume, therefore, that your sole interest is in creating conflict.
Keep up the good work.
(And, by the way - your English was pretty perfect in your earlier posts. *winks*)
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quantumshaman wrote:Sikimiwa...
Your latest post strikes me as simply false. Rather like a mama bird pretending to be injured, putting on a show. Sorry, but that's just how I'm reading you.
I notice that you start talking about "white people", assuming I am white. Interesting, that. When all else fails, play the race card.
If you really wanted to talk to me, you would talk to me. *shrugs* I can only assume, therefore, that your sole interest is in creating conflict.
Keep up the good work.
(And, by the way - your English was pretty perfect in your earlier posts. *winks*)
QS- your ability to read strikes me as bullshit.
sometimes i have the opportunity to ask for help, concerning my language. (and thanks to auto-correct. miracle tool)
race card? i am not referring to the color of your skin.
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you can read, and yet you take all my bait.
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sikimiwa wrote:
quantumshaman wrote:
Sikimiwa...
Your latest post strikes me as simply false. Rather like a mama bird pretending to be injured, putting on a show. Sorry, but that's just how I'm reading you.
I notice that you start talking about "white people", assuming I am white. Interesting, that. When all else fails, play the race card.
If you really wanted to talk to me, you would talk to me. *shrugs* I can only assume, therefore, that your sole interest is in creating conflict.
Keep up the good work.
(And, by the way - your English was pretty perfect in your earlier posts. *winks*)
QS- your ability to read strikes me as bullshit.
sometimes i have the opportunity to ask for help, concerning my language. (and thanks to auto-correct. miracle tool)
race card? i am not referring to the color of your skin.
I'm not referring to skin color either. But you WERE the one who said "white people", or am I mistaken? Once again... you start something, then try to pretend innocence.
Aren't you tired of it yet?
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sikimiwa wrote:
you can read, and yet you take all my bait.Sure. It's sport. I'm just drawing you out before I reveal you to yourself.
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to put it bluntly QuantumShaman ™ i pretend nothing. my only hope floats on someone else can see, if this is a nagual forum. i think i made enough noise. i do not think that you understand what i am talking about.
I think we are at a stand-still.
Yes. you are correct. i am losing my desire to post here. I would like to end this conversation with you, and i hold nothing. I am sending you a private message now, actually.
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Conintuing this convo, but a difft branch of the same tree, here:
http://sorcery.yuku.com/t...3/master/1/#.T9I_-FIuDsc
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Would one of the mods be able to delete this thread? The info contained within has become irrelevant. I am no longer offering the services mentioned here.
thanks
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i hear you spiderlily, though im sure you can read that the thread was started by songbird.spiritlodge so I will surely not make these kind of changes to the thread based on another nickname's request.
i say changes because, as you can see, the thread kind of took a life of its own. Im thinking I will not delete it. I can however edit the info you gave in the first posts, say its outdated and/or remove some of it.
I would be interested to know what led to cancelling of the services. we did kind of follow your efforts and some of us cheered you on. I would be interested to know how it went and why it led to where it led. All of it might provide some useful info so it would be a shame to delete it all. But if you really wish all of it gone i will consider it again. So, please, make a reply as songbird and I will see what I can do. Also, for the future, requests like this are best made or referenced/linked to in the Admin/Mod Log ( http://sorcery.yuku.com/topic/4218/Admi ... onal-Stuff), because i read that before any other part of the site and I might decide to not read a thread that I am not interested in.
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watergaze wrote:i hear you spiderlily, though im sure you can read that the thread was started by songbird.spiritlodge so I will surely not make these kind of changes to the thread based on another nickname's request.
i say changes because, as you can see, the thread kind of took a life of its own. Im thinking I will not delete it. I can however edit the info you gave in the first posts, say its outdated and/or remove some of it.
I would be interested to know what led to cancelling of the services. we did kind of follow your efforts and some of us cheered you on. I would be interested to know how it went and why it led to where it led. All of it might provide some useful info so it would be a shame to delete it all. But if you really wish all of it gone i will consider it again. So, please, make a reply as songbird and I will see what I can do. Also, for the future, requests like this are best made or referenced/linked to in the Admin/Mod Log ( http://sorcery.yuku.com/topic/4218/Admi ... onal-Stuff), because i read that before any other part of the site and I might decide to not read a thread that I am not interested in.
I'm afraid I can not reply as songbird as that account is no longer active. But what you say makes sense, ie not deleting the entire thread. I suppose I can just come back later with an explanatiion that this service is no longer available and why....
Thanks water
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DreamWhispers
http://www.dreamwhisperscoaching.net
Your
~ Dream Coaching~ Home on the Web for Dream Coaching and Guiding, Dreaming tips, tricks and general FAQ. Also available are dream interpretations, Shamanic Journeying, Dream Healings and Soul Retrievals as well as Personal Dream Readings for those that have secrets hidden within that are waiting to be set free.
Dream Coaching is a relatively little known facet of dreaming wherein the student may enhance their own dreaming abilities by using the aid of a skilled dream coach.
Often times dreamers struggle with dreaming practices, dream recall and gaining lucidity while in the dream. These are the people who will greatly benefit from the expertise and experience of a dream coach.
A dream coach will guide you, coach you and help to enhance your own dreaming abilities, often times simply by lending you some of her dreaming energy and other times, by travelling the dreaming worlds to find you and pick you up.
Most of this action happens on the other side, in the dreaming world although there are some techniques you can use while waking to help enhance dreaming.
Once the student has made the decision to allow the dream coach into his dreams, then the magic will happen. You will soon see that your own dreams have changed, that your abilites have amped up and also that your recall is enhanced.
Dream coaching requires a deep level of trust between coach and student and the student should understand that the coach will never do anything witout the student's permission.
The student will, at all times be in control of allowing the dream interaction. Once sufficient trust is gained, there is no limit to the kinds of things that student and teacher can achieve together.
Dream Coaching is an interactive experience between the Dream Coach and her student. It enables the student's steady evolution while creating a deeper sense of personal and spiritual fulfillment.
At Dream Whispers, along with enhancing the student's dreaming abilities, we also assist in any area of life that may appear in the student's dreaming. This may include relationship issues, health and wellness, spiritual ascension, skill enhancement and career direction.
Some of the benefits of Dream Coaching include becoming more familiar with your Dreamer, developing greater clarity about your life's purpose as well as making better decisions. This empowers the student to take action with confidence while discovering and living his purpose.
http://www.dreamwhisperscoaching.net
UPDATE
Dream Whispers Dream Coaching is no longer available. While I really enjoyed the Coaching sessions and one-on-one Dreamwork and practicing with other dreamers, I feel like I do not have adequate time and energy to devote to this endeavour. It is an enormous task to agree to Coach even one dreamer and takes not only immense patience but an almost unlimited amount of time, energy and attention from both parties. It is for these reasons that I am no longer pursuing the Path of Dream Coach, have dismantled the website and have made the forum read only. Thank you so much to all clients, dreamers and to all of you who supported me on this Dream. I coulnd't have done it without you all! Perhaps, one day, it will be possible to give this the attention it deserves!
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You guys take things too personally. Everyone of you is free to do what you choose, for any or no reason.
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cabbageman wrote:You guys take things too personally.
You sure you're not making an assumption here?
cabbageman wrote:Everyone of you is free to do what you choose, for any or no reason.
Agreed. And I don't think there is any reason to justify, explain or defend ourselves to other Warriors.
You know what don Juan says. Every explanation is a hidden apology....
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