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Sedna wrote:
Enchatra stated she was struggling with being authentic in challenging situations, Datura stated that wanting people to like you is self importance, and Alien doesn't seem to see what I am suggesting, so I thought it might help to clarify what I mean.
Being authentic, and not being an invented self, does not mean trying to get someone to like you. Feeling that you are not being liked is an invention that comes from an invented self. The authentic self just is. Also being authentic does not mean trying to bring light or teach anyone anything. It doesn't even mean sharing what you do. One can be ablsolutely silent and still be authentic. However, there are dozens of ways to be silent and not be authentic...like being silent because you feel you are suppose to be...the feeling that you are suppose to be is an invention. This invented self is tricky business.
Here is an example from my life. I can walk into work smiling and someone says to me, "I don't know how you do it, you are always so happy." I say, "I don't take life too seriously, it is just life after all" and smile and walk away. I told them a very real part of my personal philosophy and wasn't fake in the least.
Unfortunately, I don't have any examples of dealing with difficult people like Alien's MIL, but here is how I might have handled a visit. Meeting a new person, I would be curious about that person and probably ask a lot of questions. Where I found similarities, I would probably share that I too enjoy whatever it is. If I found they had good taste in something, I'd probably say that too. Since it is a family member and since gift giving would be expected later on, I'd also been taking mental notes what kinds of things that person likes and what kind of gifts I might be able to get them. Every successive time I saw that person, I'd ask how the various details they had shared were progressing. This seems to be a good formula for getting along with others and is authentic.
However, if I work up in Alien's body and had to deal with this person with the way the relationship is now, I would take serious stock of it and of myself in it. Assuming that I love my spouse, and assuming that my spouse wishes we'd get along better, I would look for ways that I could make that happen. Giving up the fight is one way to go about it, but repairing the damage is another way to address it. I might sit down with her and looking in her eyes and say, "I wanted to talk to you about something. I know that we haven't been getting along very well. I have taken it personally that you feel this way about that thing we were talking about and I just haven't been able to like you since that day. I realize now that I was taking it too personally and I am sorry. I would like it if we were better friends. Family is important to me, and I love your child very much as I know you do too." Something like that anyways.
It is authentic, it is real, it is to the point, and it is honest. But then living authentically yields some amazing and unexpected results...it is not for everyone, only for those who want their freedom. You see, cringing everytime you visit this person that is not freedom.
I get that everyone gets into difficult situations sometimes, but if you look you will find that the root of the difficulty stems from your own transgression from what is really in your heart, from being authentic. If you can find the transgression and repair it the relationship usually repairs itself as well.You're quite amusing. You really know nothing about me, and less about my MIL, but you are quick to make assumptions and diagnoses.
Have a nice new age day.
Sweetness & light, Cumbaya,
Alien
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Enchantra wrote:
Sedna wrote:
Enchatra stated she was struggling with being authentic in challenging situations,
Actually what I struggle with is worrying about how I will be recieved, if people will like what I have to say. I don't struggle with being authentic, just with knowing what to share.
Sorry for the confusion. Witholding is the antithesis of authenticity. You will notice, if you look, that at the moments this comes up for you that in your heart you are wanting to say something (authentic) but that you are holding back due to something tell yourself (invention)...and that you have a choice between the two. The little voice in your head warns you that if you say what is in your heart to say that people won't like you. If you listen to the little voice and follow that eventually you will only say things that please others so that they will like you.
If you look at it from the other side, however, how have you felt about people who try to please you? Or who only say things that they think you will like? Do you like them much? I know I don't. I think of them like subtle liars. If you follow or observe why that is you will find that it is because they are not authentic.
The subtle part is discerning between what is in your heart to say and what it is you feel you should say to be liked.
However, the way to being liked is through authenticity.
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alien wrote:
Sedna wrote:
Enchatra stated she was struggling with being authentic in challenging situations, Datura stated that wanting people to like you is self importance, and Alien doesn't seem to see what I am suggesting, so I thought it might help to clarify what I mean.
Being authentic, and not being an invented self, does not mean trying to get someone to like you. Feeling that you are not being liked is an invention that comes from an invented self. The authentic self just is. Also being authentic does not mean trying to bring light or teach anyone anything. It doesn't even mean sharing what you do. One can be ablsolutely silent and still be authentic. However, there are dozens of ways to be silent and not be authentic...like being silent because you feel you are suppose to be...the feeling that you are suppose to be is an invention. This invented self is tricky business.
Here is an example from my life. I can walk into work smiling and someone says to me, "I don't know how you do it, you are always so happy." I say, "I don't take life too seriously, it is just life after all" and smile and walk away. I told them a very real part of my personal philosophy and wasn't fake in the least.
Unfortunately, I don't have any examples of dealing with difficult people like Alien's MIL, but here is how I might have handled a visit. Meeting a new person, I would be curious about that person and probably ask a lot of questions. Where I found similarities, I would probably share that I too enjoy whatever it is. If I found they had good taste in something, I'd probably say that too. Since it is a family member and since gift giving would be expected later on, I'd also been taking mental notes what kinds of things that person likes and what kind of gifts I might be able to get them. Every successive time I saw that person, I'd ask how the various details they had shared were progressing. This seems to be a good formula for getting along with others and is authentic.
However, if I work up in Alien's body and had to deal with this person with the way the relationship is now, I would take serious stock of it and of myself in it. Assuming that I love my spouse, and assuming that my spouse wishes we'd get along better, I would look for ways that I could make that happen. Giving up the fight is one way to go about it, but repairing the damage is another way to address it. I might sit down with her and looking in her eyes and say, "I wanted to talk to you about something. I know that we haven't been getting along very well. I have taken it personally that you feel this way about that thing we were talking about and I just haven't been able to like you since that day. I realize now that I was taking it too personally and I am sorry. I would like it if we were better friends. Family is important to me, and I love your child very much as I know you do too." Something like that anyways.
It is authentic, it is real, it is to the point, and it is honest. But then living authentically yields some amazing and unexpected results...it is not for everyone, only for those who want their freedom. You see, cringing everytime you visit this person that is not freedom.
I get that everyone gets into difficult situations sometimes, but if you look you will find that the root of the difficulty stems from your own transgression from what is really in your heart, from being authentic. If you can find the transgression and repair it the relationship usually repairs itself as well.You're quite amusing. You really know nothing about me, and less about my MIL, but you are quick to make assumptions and diagnoses.
Have a nice new age day.
Sweetness & light, Cumbaya,
Alien
Touchay. If you notice, I said it is what "I" would do. It wasn't about "you" at all.
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Oh, and ps...the 4 Agreements IS new age...Ms pot calling the kettle black. So much for authors having a clue what they are writing about. :-P
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Sedna wrote:
Touchay. If you notice, I said it is what "I" would do. It wasn't about "you" at all.
Oh, and ps...the 4 Agreements IS new age...Ms pot calling the kettle black. So much for authors having a clue what they are writing about. :-P
You asked for examples of real life stalking. I gave you one. You then proceeded to dismiss everything I had told you about STALKING and tried to turn it into a case for "authenticity", when that wasn't and isn't the issue. You assume that I haven't already tried the sweetness-and-light tactics you then proceed to outline in your response, and say something to the effect that I don't "get it" with regard to what you're talking about. Simply put: I "get it". I merely don't care. Suggest you look into detachment.
You make assumptions that my spouse and I are in disagreement, when the reality is that my spouse is also an impeccable warrior who handles the mother in much the same way as I do - a warrior/stalker/sorcerer who has clearly *seen* that attempting to have meaningful interactions with manipulative tyrants is about as useful as hanging tits on a bull. The seer sees things as they are - not as we might want them to be. Life is short, and there is no time to waste on playing footsies with phantoms. If that's what YOU want to do, then more power to you. I'm sure you're well-liked and always happy. Is that your end game?
You make the comment "You see, cringing everytime you visit this person that is not freedom." This is stated as a fact, and is actually a form of NLP, which you pretended earlier not to understand. Clever, but ultimately transparent. First, I don't cringe and never have. But then, you know nothing about me, so it's easy enough to make assumptions and then present them as facts. I spent the first 15 years of my relationship with my MIL trying to find some sort of common ground, and the bottom line is that a petty tyrant will not ALLOW common ground. By nature, they MUST always have the upper hand. That's what makes them a tyrant. Durh. So, I've spent the LAST 15+ years with total awareness of that, and my relationship with the MIL is better than ever BECAUSE I gave up caring. What that REALLY means is that I am now absolutely FREE to BE authentic and not give a rat's ass one way or the other. I think the problem here is that you have a different definition of "authentic". Being authentic doesn't mean having to speak MY truth all the time. I can quite authentically not care, can quite authentically smile and nod and allow the MIL to have the last word because as a seer and a warrior I wholly know that none of it is going to matter in a million years, or even 20 years. I am free to be detached. My self-importance does not demand that I waste any more time trying to get this woman to like me, when she has made it abundantly clear that she is playing the role of the MIL, which DEMANDS that she not like her offspring's choice of life partner. That is what the role demands, and failure to acknowledge that would be nothing less than foolhardy. She plays her part well and has no desire to get beyond the script, so who am I to rewrite her movie?
As for your jab about The 4 Agreements, I absolutely agree. Pure new age yada. What does THAT have to do with anything? I don't glean my life experience from books but from life. One problem w/ a lot of Toltec forums is that people like to talk about what they've read and what they believe, but when it comes to what they have LIVED... nothing but crickets.
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alien wrote:
Sedna wrote:
Touchay. If you notice, I said it is what "I" would do. It wasn't about "you" at all.
Oh, and ps...the 4 Agreements IS new age...Ms pot calling the kettle black. So much for authors having a clue what they are writing about. :-P
You asked for examples of real life stalking. I gave you one. You then proceeded to dismiss everything I had told you about STALKING and tried to turn it into a case for "authenticity", when that wasn't and isn't the issue. You assume that I haven't already tried the sweetness-and-light tactics you then proceed to outline in your response, and say something to the effect that I don't "get it" with regard to what you're talking about. Simply put: I "get it". I merely don't care. Suggest you look into detachment.
You make assumptions that my spouse and I are in disagreement, when the reality is that my spouse is also an impeccable warrior who handles the mother in much the same way as I do - a warrior/stalker/sorcerer who has clearly *seen* that attempting to have meaningful interactions with manipulative tyrants is about as useful as hanging tits on a bull. The seer sees things as they are - not as we might want them to be. Life is short, and there is no time to waste on playing footsies with phantoms. If that's what YOU want to do, then more power to you. I'm sure you're well-liked and always happy. Is that your end game?
You make the comment "You see, cringing everytime you visit this person that is not freedom." This is stated as a fact, and is actually a form of NLP, which you pretended earlier not to understand. Clever, but ultimately transparent. First, I don't cringe and never have. But then, you know nothing about me, so it's easy enough to make assumptions and then present them as facts. I spent the first 15 years of my relationship with my MIL trying to find some sort of common ground, and the bottom line is that a petty tyrant will not ALLOW common ground. By nature, they MUST always have the upper hand. That's what makes them a tyrant. Durh. So, I've spent the LAST 15+ years with total awareness of that, and my relationship with the MIL is better than ever BECAUSE I gave up caring. What that REALLY means is that I am now absolutely FREE to BE authentic and not give a rat's ass one way or the other. I think the problem here is that you have a different definition of "authentic". Being authentic doesn't mean having to speak MY truth all the time. I can quite authentically not care, can quite authentically smile and nod and allow the MIL to have the last word because as a seer and a warrior I wholly know that none of it is going to matter in a million years, or even 20 years. I am free to be detached. My self-importance does not demand that I waste any more time trying to get this woman to like me, when she has made it abundantly clear that she is playing the role of the MIL, which DEMANDS that she not like her offspring's choice of life partner. That is what the role demands, and failure to acknowledge that would be nothing less than foolhardy. She plays her part well and has no desire to get beyond the script, so who am I to rewrite her movie?
As for your jab about The 4 Agreements, I absolutely agree. Pure new age yada. What does THAT have to do with anything? I don't glean my life experience from books but from life. One problem w/ a lot of Toltec forums is that people like to talk about what they've read and what they believe, but when it comes to what they have LIVED... nothing but crickets.
You are obviously reacting to something, I think I will just let you work that out for yourself. Fwiw, if what you were doing with your MIL is stalking, in your mind, then what that other person did was stalking too which would be you saying that Gonzo was right...not that you care, just saying is all. I think that this is what you are reacting to, fwiw.
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Sedna wrote:
You are obviously reacting to something, I think I will just let you work that out for yourself. Fwiw, if what you were doing with your MIL is stalking, in your mind, then what that other person did was stalking too which would be you saying that Gonzo was right...not that you care, just saying is all. I think that this is what you are reacting to, fwiw.
Reacting? You flatter yourself. In reality, I'm simply amused by self-appointed psychologists on the internet who triy to make things personal instead of discussing the issues at hand (stalking, for example). You keep bringing up Gonzo and FW, so it's very obvious to me that you have at least some knowledge of "the past" - probably gleaned from chatroom gossip. *gotta laugh* Clearly you have an agenda that is neither honest nor wholesome. So unless you were THERE for the episode with FW, Gonzo, et al, you really don't know WTF you're talking about. If you WERE there, then obviously you are hiding behind your avatar. You pretend to be a newbie, yet engage in stalking others on the forum AND with a healthy dose of NLP thrown in, which you also pretended not to understand.
So, methinks you are the one who needs to work a few things out or clean up your act. The innocent routine really doesn't fly in a roomful of seers and sorcerers. It's just passive-aggressive bullshit and all too typical of book-learned don wannabes. Unless you want to talk about YOUR life experience, you're just wasting time - your own and every one else's.
Spend more time working on yourself and less time stalking others. You might be surprised at the results. "Just sayin'." Others here have made an effort to be open and honest, while you just go right on hiding. You were the one who "wondered" why warriors couldn't seem to work together to help one another on the internet. For the answer, look in the mirror. It's trolls, passive-aggressives and pretenders who have made "working together" a complete impossibility. Who are you?
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@Sedna -
You're pushing for some good stuff, and for good reasons, imo. I believe the problem so far is a belief in "sorcery". By sorcery, I mean the dictionary definition. Don Juan himself said the term was inadequate for his teaching, as was posted elsewhere. I have my own opinion why he would use the term, and at the same time say it was inadequate. But first, the problem at hand...
sor·cer·y
–noun, plural -cer·ies.
the art, practices, or spells of a person who is supposed to exercise supernatural powers through the aid of evil spirits; black magic; witchery.
...supernatural powers...and how does one acquire those powers? Stalking, of course. However, no one here will describe either that process or the business of the exercise of those powers, yet that's precisely what they are hinting at...black magic: witchery.
We then get involved in the other topic you mentioned, that of energy, which again, no one can describe other than a perception of its effect, as in noticing the wind in the trees. In a way, the exercise of supernatural powers is the control and direction of energy, and once again, no one seems willing to describe their personal experiences directing energy.
We have then also the second purpose of stalking, that of "shifting the Assemblage Point". In a way this relates to "heightened awareness", another nebulous term, implying superior abilities. No one chooses to examine this term as well...why is it "heightened"? why not just call it "different"...why higher? And it's easily achieved in a variety of manners, and is, actually, of no benefit. Ask anyone who had taken any entheogen. True shamans had a practical use for entheogens, which had nothing to do with their own self-aggrandizement, another point missed by many, those who wish to be recognized and acknowledged as some spiritually achieved, extraordinary person.
So. In my opinion, the whole business of expanded powers, extraordinary abilities, "sorcery", and so on are essentially cons. The problem is the real goal of don Juan's teachings is far too simple and folk need to be tricked into going for it. So they are seduced into thinking about power, and being powerful, and more powerful than their peers. Eventually, perhaps, they re-read "Tales of Power" and the phrase that the goal is to reach the totality of self...NOT to be a super-powerful Nagual.
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Gonzo wrote:
@Sedna -
You're pushing for some good stuff, and for good reasons, imo. I believe the problem so far is a belief in "sorcery". By sorcery, I mean the dictionary definition. Don Juan himself said the term was inadequate for his teaching, as was posted elsewhere. I have my own opinion why he would use the term, and at the same time say it was inadequate. But first, the problem at hand...
sor·cer·y
–noun, plural -cer·ies.
the art, practices, or spells of a person who is supposed to exercise supernatural powers through the aid of evil spirits; black magic; witchery.
...supernatural powers...and how does one acquire those powers? Stalking, of course. However, no one here will describe either that process or the business of the exercise of those powers, yet that's precisely what they are hinting at...black magic: witchery.
We then get involved in the other topic you mentioned, that of energy, which again, no one can describe other than a perception of its effect, as in noticing the wind in the trees. In a way, the exercise of supernatural powers is the control and direction of energy, and once again, no one seems willing to describe their personal experiences directing energy.
We have then also the second purpose of stalking, that of "shifting the Assemblage Point". In a way this relates to "heightened awareness", another nebulous term, implying superior abilities. No one chooses to examine this term as well...why is it "heightened"? why not just call it "different"...why higher? And it's easily achieved in a variety of manners, and is, actually, of no benefit. Ask anyone who had taken any entheogen. True shamans had a practical use for entheogens, which had nothing to do with their own self-aggrandizement, another point missed by many, those who wish to be recognized and acknowledged as some spiritually achieved, extraordinary person.
So. In my opinion, the whole business of expanded powers, extraordinary abilities, "sorcery", and so on are essentially cons. The problem is the real goal of don Juan's teachings is far too simple and folk need to be tricked into going for it. So they are seduced into thinking about power, and being powerful, and more powerful than their peers. Eventually, perhaps, they re-read "Tales of Power" and the phrase that the goal is to reach the totality of self...NOT to be a super-powerful Nagual.
Ah, the voice of the foreign installation at its finest. When you don't understand something, debunk it. When you can't debunk it, pretend it doesn't exist. Maintain status quo.
You will be absorbed.
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Stalking is discerning why there are two assholes left in the room. Then leave.
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Gonzo wrote:
...supernatural powers...and how does one acquire those powers? Stalking, of course. However, no one here will describe either that process or the business of the exercise of those powers, yet that's precisely what they are hinting at...black magic: witchery.
Unfortunately, I don't see that. Nothing that has been described so far has been indicative of power, energy, or supernatural anything. Craftiness and cunning, yes, but nothing more. I get that they have been doing those things and calling them stalking and so they think of themselves as stalking in their minds, and I even get that there may be an agreement within this group that what they are doing really is stalking, but imho it is not stalking. It is unfortunate that they operate under a false belief, but would be even more unfortunate if they extended that belief to seeing themselves as sorcerers or witches. All it sounds like to me is the blind trying to find ways to make it through life. How to see if your girlfriend is cheating, how to get along with the in-laws, and how not to be fooled...that is life, not stalking and certainly not sorcery or witchcraft. Spirit transcends life, and imho isn't concerned with life.
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Opps, again no edit...I meant to include, that there is a better way to accomplish finding one's way through life.
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Gonzo wrote:
True shamans had a practical use for entheogens, which had nothing to do with their own self-aggrandizement, another point missed by many, those who wish to be recognized and acknowledged as some spiritually achieved, extraordinary person.
So. In my opinion, the whole business of expanded powers, extraordinary abilities, "sorcery", and so on are essentially cons. The problem is the real goal of don Juan's teachings is far too simple and folk need to be tricked into going for it. So they are seduced into thinking about power, and being powerful, and more powerful than their peers. Eventually, perhaps, they re-read "Tales of Power" and the phrase that the goal is to reach the totality of self...NOT to be a super-powerful Nagual.
Gonzo,
I don't know what to say here, however, it makes sense that they are focused on power, they have none. They don't know they don't want a boyfriend and so cannot act impeccably; they can't make a relationship work with an in-law; they have to painstakingly sort through whether they are being conned or not, in each of those scense there is no power. It is almost like their brains are running in slow-motion and they are missing most of the details. You are perhaps not moving as slow as they are and are perhaps seeing more of the details. But they are focused so intently on power because that is what they need to survive. Don't mistake their quest for power to mean anything other than they don't have any. In another context it is the same as freedom is for slaves; power is for people who don't have any.
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Gonzo wrote:
@Sedna -
You're pushing for some good stuff, and for good reasons, imo.
We then get involved in the other topic you mentioned, that of energy, which again, no one can describe other than a perception of its effect, as in noticing the wind in the trees. In a way, the exercise of supernatural powers is the control and direction of energy, and once again, no one seems willing to describe their personal experiences directing energy.
We have then also the second purpose of stalking, that of "shifting the Assemblage Point". In a way this relates to "heightened awareness", another nebulous term, implying superior abilities. No one chooses to examine this term as well...why is it "heightened"? why not just call it "different"...why higher? And it's easily achieved in a variety of manners, and is, actually, of no benefit. Ask anyone who had taken any entheogen. True shamans had a practical use for entheogens, which had nothing to do with their own self-aggrandizement, another point missed by many, those who wish to be recognized and acknowledged as some spiritually achieved, extraordinary person.
So. In my opinion, the whole business of expanded powers, extraordinary abilities, "sorcery", and so on are essentially cons. The problem is the real goal of don Juan's teachings is far too simple and folk need to be tricked into going for it. So they are seduced into thinking about power, and being powerful, and more powerful than their peers. Eventually, perhaps, they re-read "Tales of Power" and the phrase that the goal is to reach the totality of self...NOT to be a super-powerful Nagual.Gonzo, do not be so decieved into making conclusions about energy, heightened awareness, and the directing of these just because the people around you cannot describe them. In all likelihood the people here cannot describe them because they haven't experienced them for themselves...consider that. The only way one has to describe something that they haven't experienced is in general terms and with quotes. We can talk about what elephants might be like, but once you have seen an elephant your description takes on a different quality. Consider that what is missing is that specific quality of description in what has been described so far.
One description I can give you of heightened awareness and how it differs from ordinary awareness is that it represents a difference in measuarble brain wave frequencies from beta to alpha. Almost everyone has had an episode of heightened awareness at least once in their life, and you probably have as well, when one experiences something frightening. When frightened the body releases adrenaline which causes one's brain's functioning to speed up and that is percieved by the person as time slowing down and everything is noticed in amazing detail. The other marked difference is that those moments are recorded in a different area in the brain from one's usual memories and remains extremely vivid for the rest of one's life. Once you have discerned that difference the question then becomes one of achieving that state on purpose and how one might go about doing that. A car accident props heightened awareness. It would not have been unexpected for DJ to have caused CC to nearly get in a car accident to prop his heightened awareness, however, if he had that would not have been stalking. The difference is that DJ knew what he was propping and once propped would have made full use of it and the only use of heightened awareness that DJ had was to record information in CC's brain for later use. Again, nothing like what is being described in this forum...that is nothing personal, it just isn't.
To explore whether it is a con is different than exploring whether it has any practical use in one's life. Consider the car accident in progress and how time seems to slow down for a person allowing them to make a number of small actions which they otherwise wouldn't be able to make in that split second, consider that an ability. What could one do with such an ability if they could call upon it at will? What would you do with it? One thing that could be done with it is that in each of the examples that were posted, they could have processed all the information that took days, weeks, hours, to process. That it took more time than a moment to process one can know that they were not propping heightened awareness. Another use of vivid recall is remembering grocery lists or names of everyone you meet which is great if you are in business. It is possible that it has no practical uses, but certainly developing the ability to call upon it at will is a part of our totality.
As to energy, reach out an touch someone at the airport with an imaginary finger...tap a person on their shoulder until you can get them to notice. That is your energy body. It is real and it is verifiable. However, much of what is out there is written by people who have never accessed their actual energy body in any practical way. Just because the people around you haven't accessed their energy body doesn't mean that doesn't exist.
So, go go back, locate where exactly your awareness is housed. If your complaining is more than just something you do and you are not afraid of a little work, locate your awareness.
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Gonzo wrote:
@Sedna -
You're pushing for some good stuff, and for good reasons, imo.
We then get involved in the other topic you mentioned, that of energy, which again, no one can describe other than a perception of its effect, as in noticing the wind in the trees. In a way, the exercise of supernatural powers is the control and direction of energy, and once again, no one seems willing to describe their personal experiences directing energy.
We have then also the second purpose of stalking, that of "shifting the Assemblage Point". In a way this relates to "heightened awareness", another nebulous term, implying superior abilities. No one chooses to examine this term as well...why is it "heightened"? why not just call it "different"...why higher? And it's easily achieved in a variety of manners, and is, actually, of no benefit. Ask anyone who had taken any entheogen. True shamans had a practical use for entheogens, which had nothing to do with their own self-aggrandizement, another point missed by many, those who wish to be recognized and acknowledged as some spiritually achieved, extraordinary person.
So. In my opinion, the whole business of expanded powers, extraordinary abilities, "sorcery", and so on are essentially cons. The problem is the real goal of don Juan's teachings is far too simple and folk need to be tricked into going for it. So they are seduced into thinking about power, and being powerful, and more powerful than their peers. Eventually, perhaps, they re-read "Tales of Power" and the phrase that the goal is to reach the totality of self...NOT to be a super-powerful Nagual.Gonzo, do not be so decieved into making conclusions about energy, heightened awareness, and the directing of these just because the people around you cannot describe them. In all likelihood the people here cannot describe them because they haven't experienced them for themselves...consider that. The only way one has to describe something that they haven't experienced is in general terms and with quotes. We can talk about what elephants might be like, but once you have seen an elephant your description takes on a different quality. Consider that what is missing is that specific quality of description in what has been described so far.
One description I can give you of heightened awareness and how it differs from ordinary awareness is that it represents a difference in measuarble brain wave frequencies from beta to alpha. Almost everyone has had an episode of heightened awareness at least once in their life, and you probably have as well, when one experiences something frightening. When frightened the body releases adrenaline which causes one's brain's functioning to speed up and that is percieved by the person as time slowing down and everything is noticed in amazing detail. The other marked difference is that those moments are recorded in a different area in the brain from one's usual memories and remains extremely vivid for the rest of one's life. Once you have discerned that difference the question then becomes one of achieving that state on purpose and how one might go about doing that. A car accident props heightened awareness. It would not have been unexpected for DJ to have caused CC to nearly get in a car accident to prop his heightened awareness, however, if he had that would not have been stalking. The difference is that DJ knew what he was propping and once propped would have made full use of it and the only use of heightened awareness that DJ had was to record information in CC's brain for later use. Again, nothing like what is being described in this forum...that is nothing personal, it just isn't.
To explore whether it is a con is different than exploring whether it has any practical use in one's life. Consider the car accident in progress and how time seems to slow down for a person allowing them to make a number of small actions which they otherwise wouldn't be able to make in that split second, consider that an ability. What could one do with such an ability if they could call upon it at will? What would you do with it? One thing that could be done with it is that in each of the examples that were posted, they could have processed all the information that took days, weeks, hours, to process. That it took more time than a moment to process one can know that they were not propping heightened awareness. Another use of vivid recall is remembering grocery lists or names of everyone you meet which is great if you are in business. It is possible that it has no practical uses, but certainly developing the ability to call upon it at will is a part of our totality.
As to energy, reach out an touch someone at the airport with an imaginary finger...tap a person on their shoulder until you can get them to notice. That is your energy body. It is real and it is verifiable. However, much of what is out there is written by people who have never accessed their actual energy body in any practical way. Just because the people around you haven't accessed their energy body doesn't mean that doesn't exist.
So, go go back, locate where exactly your awareness is housed. If your complaining is more than just something you do and you are not afraid of a little work, locate your awareness.
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Sedna wrote:
Opps, again no edit...I meant to include, that there is a better way to accomplish finding one's way through life.
"Make intent an index. Intent is merely the awareness of a possibility-of a chance to have a chance. It's one of the perennial forces of the universe
that we never call on --by hooking onto the intent of the sorcerers world, you're giving yourself a chance to have a chance.
Move toward it, without understanding." Carlos Castenada
( 1994 interview)
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Sedna wrote:
Gonzo, do not be so decieved into making conclusions about energy, heightened awareness, and the directing of these just because the people around you cannot describe them. In all likelihood the people here cannot describe them because they haven't experienced them for themselves...consider that. The only way one has to describe something that they haven't experienced is in general terms and with quotes. We can talk about what elephants might be like, but once you have seen an elephant your description takes on a different quality. Consider that what is missing is that specific quality of description in what has been described so far.
One description I can give you of heightened awareness and how it differs from ordinary awareness is that it represents a difference in measuarble brain wave frequencies from beta to alpha. Almost everyone has had an episode of heightened awareness at least once in their life, and you probably have as well, when one experiences something frightening. When frightened the body releases adrenaline which causes one's brain's functioning to speed up and that is percieved by the person as time slowing down and everything is noticed in amazing detail. The other marked difference is that those moments are recorded in a different area in the brain from one's usual memories and remains extremely vivid for the rest of one's life. Once you have discerned that difference the question then becomes one of achieving that state on purpose and how one might go about doing that. A car accident props heightened awareness. It would not have been unexpected for DJ to have caused CC to nearly get in a car accident to prop his heightened awareness, however, if he had that would not have been stalking. The difference is that DJ knew what he was propping and once propped would have made full use of it and the only use of heightened awareness that DJ had was to record information in CC's brain for later use. Again, nothing like what is being described in this forum...that is nothing personal, it just isn't.
To explore whether it is a con is different than exploring whether it has any practical use in one's life. Consider the car accident in progress and how time seems to slow down for a person allowing them to make a number of small actions which they otherwise wouldn't be able to make in that split second, consider that an ability. What could one do with such an ability if they could call upon it at will? What would you do with it? One thing that could be done with it is that in each of the examples that were posted, they could have processed all the information that took days, weeks, hours, to process. That it took more time than a moment to process one can know that they were not propping heightened awareness. Another use of vivid recall is remembering grocery lists or names of everyone you meet which is great if you are in business. It is possible that it has no practical uses, but certainly developing the ability to call upon it at will is a part of our totality.
As to energy, reach out an touch someone at the airport with an imaginary finger...tap a person on their shoulder until you can get them to notice. That is your energy body. It is real and it is verifiable. However, much of what is out there is written by people who have never accessed their actual energy body in any practical way. Just because the people around you haven't accessed their energy body doesn't mean that doesn't exist.
So, go go back, locate where exactly your awareness is housed. If your complaining is more than just something you do and you are not afraid of a little work, locate your awareness.
Gonzo:
If you allow this person to become your teacher - and it's clear to me that is what is being put forth - you are even sillier than I thought. First this person comes on the forum in the guise of innocence. Now s/he is a great authority on everyone and everything.
Do yourself a favor.
Run away. Do not look back.
And don't fall for this stalking game AGAIN. You fell for it once. Don't make the same mistake twice. Fair warning.
QS
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Windwalker wrote:
"They"?
Yes. You people.
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Gonzo wrote:
@Sedna -
You're pushing for some good stuff, and for good reasons, imo. I believe the problem so far is a belief in "sorcery". By sorcery, I mean the dictionary definition. Don Juan himself said the term was inadequate for his teaching, as was posted elsewhere. I have my own opinion why he would use the term, and at the same time say it was inadequate. But first, the problem at hand...
sor·cer·y
–noun, plural -cer·ies.
the art, practices, or spells of a person who is supposed to exercise supernatural powers through the aid of evil spirits; black magic; witchery.
...supernatural powers...and how does one acquire those powers? Stalking, of course. However, no one here will describe either that process or the business of the exercise of those powers, yet that's precisely what they are hinting at...black magic: witchery.
We then get involved in the other topic you mentioned, that of energy, which again, no one can describe other than a perception of its effect, as in noticing the wind in the trees. In a way, the exercise of supernatural powers is the control and direction of energy, and once again, no one seems willing to describe their personal experiences directing energy.
We have then also the second purpose of stalking, that of "shifting the Assemblage Point". In a way this relates to "heightened awareness", another nebulous term, implying superior abilities. No one chooses to examine this term as well...why is it "heightened"? why not just call it "different"...why higher? And it's easily achieved in a variety of manners, and is, actually, of no benefit. Ask anyone who had taken any entheogen. True shamans had a practical use for entheogens, which had nothing to do with their own self-aggrandizement, another point missed by many, those who wish to be recognized and acknowledged as some spiritually achieved, extraordinary person.
So. In my opinion, the whole business of expanded powers, extraordinary abilities, "sorcery", and so on are essentially cons. The problem is the real goal of don Juan's teachings is far too simple and folk need to be tricked into going for it. So they are seduced into thinking about power, and being powerful, and more powerful than their peers. Eventually, perhaps, they re-read "Tales of Power" and the phrase that the goal is to reach the totality of self...NOT to be a super-powerful Nagual.
Gonzo you're not a stupid man, but you are very easy. Don't be a fool, it is her again. Playing games, exasperating members, robbing folks of energy just like the old days. And funny how she latches on to you to teach you again. But knowing you, you will enjoy the entertainment.
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Sedna wrote:
Gonzo wrote:
@Sedna -
You're pushing for some good stuff, and for good reasons, imo.
We then get involved in the other topic you mentioned, that of energy, which again, no one can describe other than a perception of its effect, as in noticing the wind in the trees. In a way, the exercise of supernatural powers is the control and direction of energy, and once again, no one seems willing to describe their personal experiences directing energy.
We have then also the second purpose of stalking, that of "shifting the Assemblage Point". In a way this relates to "heightened awareness", another nebulous term, implying superior abilities. No one chooses to examine this term as well...why is it "heightened"? why not just call it "different"...why higher? And it's easily achieved in a variety of manners, and is, actually, of no benefit. Ask anyone who had taken any entheogen. True shamans had a practical use for entheogens, which had nothing to do with their own self-aggrandizement, another point missed by many, those who wish to be recognized and acknowledged as some spiritually achieved, extraordinary person.
So. In my opinion, the whole business of expanded powers, extraordinary abilities, "sorcery", and so on are essentially cons. The problem is the real goal of don Juan's teachings is far too simple and folk need to be tricked into going for it. So they are seduced into thinking about power, and being powerful, and more powerful than their peers. Eventually, perhaps, they re-read "Tales of Power" and the phrase that the goal is to reach the totality of self...NOT to be a super-powerful Nagual.Gonzo, do not be so decieved into making conclusions about energy, heightened awareness, and the directing of these just because the people around you cannot describe them. In all likelihood the people here cannot describe them because they haven't experienced them for themselves...consider that. The only way one has to describe something that they haven't experienced is in general terms and with quotes. We can talk about what elephants might be like, but once you have seen an elephant your description takes on a different quality. Consider that what is missing is that specific quality of description in what has been described so far.
One description I can give you of heightened awareness and how it differs from ordinary awareness is that it represents a difference in measuarble brain wave frequencies from beta to alpha. Almost everyone has had an episode of heightened awareness at least once in their life, and you probably have as well, when one experiences something frightening. When frightened the body releases adrenaline which causes one's brain's functioning to speed up and that is percieved by the person as time slowing down and everything is noticed in amazing detail. The other marked difference is that those moments are recorded in a different area in the brain from one's usual memories and remains extremely vivid for the rest of one's life. Once you have discerned that difference the question then becomes one of achieving that state on purpose and how one might go about doing that. A car accident props heightened awareness. It would not have been unexpected for DJ to have caused CC to nearly get in a car accident to prop his heightened awareness, however, if he had that would not have been stalking. The difference is that DJ knew what he was propping and once propped would have made full use of it and the only use of heightened awareness that DJ had was to record information in CC's brain for later use. Again, nothing like what is being described in this forum...that is nothing personal, it just isn't.
To explore whether it is a con is different than exploring whether it has any practical use in one's life. Consider the car accident in progress and how time seems to slow down for a person allowing them to make a number of small actions which they otherwise wouldn't be able to make in that split second, consider that an ability. What could one do with such an ability if they could call upon it at will? What would you do with it? One thing that could be done with it is that in each of the examples that were posted, they could have processed all the information that took days, weeks, hours, to process. That it took more time than a moment to process one can know that they were not propping heightened awareness. Another use of vivid recall is remembering grocery lists or names of everyone you meet which is great if you are in business. It is possible that it has no practical uses, but certainly developing the ability to call upon it at will is a part of our totality.
As to energy, reach out an touch someone at the airport with an imaginary finger...tap a person on their shoulder until you can get them to notice. That is your energy body. It is real and it is verifiable. However, much of what is out there is written by people who have never accessed their actual energy body in any practical way. Just because the people around you haven't accessed their energy body doesn't mean that doesn't exist.
So, go go back, locate where exactly your awareness is housed. If your complaining is more than just something you do and you are not afraid of a little work, locate your awareness.
So forest/river/sedna, how's tricks? What happened to your youtubes when you were playing guru, and your Be the Living Love slogan? What happened to that? Lose followers so you returned to the Toltec forums again? How's that working for you?
I'm going to warn you right now, your tricks will not work in this forum. This place is heavily moderated. So once I see a deleted or edited post, I will go to the forum owner and request a permanent ban. And I will get it. So if you remain for however long, understand, once that delete or edit button is hit, you are GONE. Finito, end of story.
I doubt you will get many serious takers of your posts. Many of us know you already and are familiar with your tricks. So I anticipate new characters being created. Unless you've been medicated, which I doubt you are.
****Mod hat**** You have been warned. First warning. And this is the only warning you will receive.
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ninth octave wrote:Stalking is discerning why there are two assholes left in the room. Then leave.
hahaha.....the best post so far.
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Sedna wrote:
Nu Lang wrote:
mothsdream wrote:
the main reason i don't relate to this phrase of "stalking others" is because the person claiming that they are stalking is not shifting their AP. they are sitting with it in a rigid position and insisting others shift.
I disagree, because from my own experiences it requires I too must shift constantly. In fact this is what DJ was telling Carlos is the reason stalking was develped was to deal with the world at large from a place in inner silence that is incompatible to such world...so to deal with others who are not 'like you' in how they think and react to situations.
Give an example of this happening.
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alien wrote:
Gonzo wrote:
@Sedna -
I could provide you details of a real-life example of stalking but I doubt you would accept it. In the instance, I, along with about five others, were the objects of the stalking, and it has been alluded to in another thread. The problem is, that I doubt you would accept the stalker (trickster, as Nu Lang has said) as being a stalker, nor would you accept the events as stalking, since several others, including some of the five mentioned, prefer to refer to the stalker as a deranged egomaniac thereby providing themselves a convenient excuse for dismissing the event and their own vulnerabilities.
I think you have it backwards. If you recall, I saw through ForestWolf from the beginning and actually told you and others what was happening. You were being stalked by that deluded egomaniac (I stand by that statement), yet you refused to acknowledge what was right in front of you, and CLEARLY visible to anyone who *sees*. That you & others were taken in by the deception is neither here nor there, but be aware that it was your CHOICE to be taken in. Don't try to elevate the tyrant to hero status because of your own inability and/or unwillingness to *see*. History speaks for itself. You were duped. Now you are simply trying to say it was due to the brilliance of the tyrant, when the reality is that it was due to the inadequacy of the "mark".
Then again, I suppose you would also say that Manson & his followers "stalked" Sharon Tate & her companions "for their own good." That kind of "reason" isn't reason at all, just madness in disguise, the kind of "logic" used by the foreign installation to justify essentially anything. If you want to believe it, that's fine by me. But when you try to put it onto others by elevating a common egomaniac to hero status, you make it necessary to point out the fatal flaws in your "logic". It's not okay. It never was. It never will be. What FW did was not in alignment with "the right way to live" - largely because the people who became her "marks" did not sign on to have her as their teacher. They were largely just ordinary folks on a discussion forum, working under the assumption that others on the forum were there to discuss Castaneda, nagualism, etc. There were no don Juans and no Carlos's. Just people. The warrior games were hers and hers alone, based on an agenda to feed her own ago. Period. End of argument. History speaks for itself.
You like to say no one can con an honest man. How was it, then, that you yourself were so deeply conned even AFTER I told you what was happening, and spelled it out in black and white? Where does the logic in THAT lie?
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Sedna wrote:
Enchantra wrote:
alien wrote:
I think you have it backwards. If you recall, I saw through ForestWolf from the beginning and actually told you and others what was happening. You were being stalked by that deluded egomaniac (I stand by that statement), yet you refused to acknowledge what was right in front of you, and CLEARLY visible to anyone who *sees*. That you & others were taken in by the deception is neither here nor there, but be aware that it was your CHOICE to be taken in. Don't try to elevate the tyrant to hero status because of your own inability and/or unwillingness to *see*. History speaks for itself. You were duped. Now you are simply trying to say it was due to the brilliance of the tyrant, when the reality is that it was due to the inadequacy of the "mark".
Then again, I suppose you would also say that Manson & his followers "stalked" Sharon Tate & her companions "for their own good." That kind of "reason" isn't reason at all, just madness in disguise, the kind of "logic" used by the foreign installation to justify essentially anything. If you want to believe it, that's fine by me. But when you try to put it onto others by elevating a common egomaniac to hero status, you make it necessary to point out the fatal flaws in your "logic". It's not okay. It never was. It never will be. What FW did was not in alignment with "the right way to live" - largely because the people who became her "marks" did not sign on to have her as their teacher. They were largely just ordinary folks on a discussion forum, working under the assumption that others on the forum were there to discuss Castaneda, nagualism, etc. There were no don Juans and no Carlos's. Just people. The warrior games were hers and hers alone, based on an agenda to feed her own ago. Period. End of argument. History speaks for itself.
SORCERY
You like to say no one can con an honest man. How was it, then, that you yourself were so deeply conned even AFTER I told you what was happening, and spelled it out in black and white? Where does the logic in THAT lie?
Where was the impeccability?
alien you make a few good points here and I want to point out that a lot of what 'stalkers' of others do, is very closely aligned with what 'stalkers' the illegal kind do, in manner, action and excuses, and is also similar to abusers. "To help you see." "For your own good" etc. All very psychologically manipulative sentences.
I so agree Enchantra. I have been trying, dedicatedly, for days to draw a line between these two and I just haven't been able to...I am relieved to find out that I am not the only one. Thank you.
I believe I am coming to an end on this one. I feel I have been giving this notion that stalking others could be a real technique with some use a fair shake, I have tried really hard to see it. Those who say that it is, however, have been less than forthcoming with examples to show that it is and all I can see from what has been shown and discussed so far is that stalking others is abusive at best. Even the person who claims this other person was a master it seems clear what she did didn't work and I think that is enough to conclude that it just doesn't work. Unless, of course, anyone knows of someone more masterful at it.
I want to thank everyone for their participation in helping me to understand this and make clear what was confusing me.
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