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A long time ago I studied with a guy named Paul Larsen (now deceased)
Now according to Paul the idea of Personal Responsiblity was very simple, that we are all directly responsible for our own universe.
Who we are, what we are right now, creates "what is" and our reflection or reality right now.
Now, if this was true, one could easily look around a bit and say "oh noes!" it's all going to hell in a hand basket! Global Warming, War in Iraq, Over population, and say "oh noes" I screwed up bigtime. That would be idiotic of course, to take this literally.
But I ask, how do you see all this question?
Are we in some responsible for all of this, and if so, how can we help? We all seem so powerless, to do anything directly.
Or are we all collectively responsible in some way?
If so what can we do, individually or collectively?
According to Gurdjieff, evolution is personal. That collective evoluation has only taken us this far, and now we are pretty much on our own.
Meher Baba compared it to 2 freight trains, one that makes all of the scheduled stops and an express train that goes directly to the goal.
According to Krishnamurti evolution is personal, but it also
affects the whole of humanity.
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Ultimately, we are not individual. Thus for me, the question does not compute! Ha!
As little pieces of awareness, self-indulged, we humans seem to think that our survival and our environmental condition has to conform to our own little idea of how things should be. If we could take a look from the perspective of the totality of life, we might see that all is moving as the Source Intends. It probes and extends itself through numerous ways. We are just one way. For the Standing Mother,
DG
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Quote:Ultimately, we are not individual. Thus for me, the question does not compute! Ha!
So, true we don't exist separately! One has had a fleeting glimpse on occasion "I don't exist!"
Yet if the Mother gave us this realization of oneness and there also spontaneously arises the percpeptio of the reality of suffering of fellow beings, there is (in me anyway) this desire to help.
But there is also at the same time the realization that Ignorance is what keeps people at the level of suffering they are at.
For example, I might see a bum and try to help him out, and if I gave him a lot of money, he would just buy a hooker and some drugs, and be back in the gutter the next day.
So clearly that is not the sort of help that is needed here.
And the bum is responsible for creating his mess, as I am of mine. Yet the condition of the ignorant is that reality appears to be so very dense that it's solid. While for the more evoloved I think it is less so.
Althought every so often the "Fleeting Two by Four of Ultimate Realization", reminds me of the solidity of this fluid and spacious infinite universe.
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When we get those 'fleeting glimpses' of being within the Source, we, at that moment, are exchanging the highest form of love that humans can experience! THIS is what we share. THIS is what the bum seeks. THIS is the only thing that relieves the pain and illusion of separateness! How? Become that which we 'glimpse'. Immerse one's self in it. Radiate it as naturally as we breathe. All it takes is one taste and man becomes a 'hound of heaven', stopping at nothing to get home!
Many blessings and welcome to this discussion place. I will visit yours.
For the Standing Mother,
DG
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God's responsible for this mess. He screwed it big time.
Now I(we) have to fix it.
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God just asked a simple question? Why blame him?
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"Yet if the Mother gave us this realization of oneness and there also spontaneously arises the percpeptio of the reality of suffering of fellow beings, there is (in me anyway) this desire to help.
But there is also at the same time the realization that Ignorance is what keeps people at the level of suffering they are at.
For example, I might see a bum and try to help him out, and if I gave him a lot of money, he would just buy a hooker and some drugs, and be back in the gutter the next day.
So clearly that is not the sort of help that is needed here."
You can bring a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. This is part of the problem. Not just ignorance, but loving to live in that ignorance.
Don Juan said; "No one is doing anything to anybody."
If everyone looked at life's circumstances as lessons instead of looking for someone to blame for those circumstances, it would be a better world. Most wars would not happen. Most psychological disorders would dissappear. And more people would "get along" better.
In the end, we don't have any control over other people's points of view. That leaves only us and those we can have some influence with.
We say what we think and let the chips fall where they may.
Some will change.,, (I include myself in this group, though I still have a lot of growing to do), and maybe this does something to the whole collective of mankind. Bob
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There is a story about a guru and his cranky disciple. Both were getting on in years and they happened to be sitting one afternoon in a cramped, dingy room waiting for someone to bring them food.
"Why are you any different from me?" the disciple grumbled. "We're just two old men sitting here waiting for our dinner."
"That's true," the guru said.
"We see the same room," the disciple went on. "We live in the same world. There's no difference at all."
The guru shook his head. "You say we live in the same world, but we don't. Your world is private; no one else can enter it. It is made of personal memories, desires, feelings, and dreams. My world is not private but open to all. It is eternal and unbounded. Nothing exists in it that I claim as my own. Wherever I look I see love, trust, truth, and eternity."
The disciple still complained. "If your world is so much better than mine, why do you even bother to be here?"
"Because your world is only a dream" the guru said quietly. "And it gives me pleasure when someone wakes up."
Deepak Chopra
For the Standing Mother,
DG
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Excellent story Dok.
Today I spent with a 34 year old man who shot himself in the head.
In his face was freedom from the foreign installation.
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>"Wherever I look I see love, trust, truth, and eternity."
the guru should wake up from his dream too.
see it all
--------------------
fear nothing because everything will be forgotten
like tears in the rain.
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>God just asked a simple question? Why blame him?
who else ? should I blame people, animals, plants,
earth, or stars ? God is the primary cause, so he
should take his responsibility.
see it all
--------------------
fear nothing because everything will be forgotten
like tears in the rain.
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hey Dok,
What if the guru and the disciple are both right? Or maybe there's a fine line between the two point of views? What if my personal feelings are real and not merely a dream? Something that's shared - a love for someone else. Wouldn't that contradict his perception of the disciple?
Suffering from ignorance is the reason why they didn't wake up yet. The bum is having a dream of a temporary love because he didn't reach the higher state of being at the moment of his life. A fake love for which he treasures in his alcohol and whores.
Hey Seeitall, you're not seeing it all at all. Why blame God? If God gave us the freedom, then he gave us the freedom to see our ignorance. So why blame him when in reality it is ourselves to blame? So take responsibility for your own individuality. He gave it to us, he's responsible for that - responsible for our freedoms, for our beliefs but not for our actions. Which is actually a contradiction itself... You sound like you're angry towards him because you haven't taken responsibility, so you blamed others and when there was no one else to blame but yourself, you put your pity on Thee.
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Hi Jeric,
in fact I don't blame anyone. I have my war and I do
not care if the world is bad or good, full of love or evil,
and who's responsible for what.
That's not my bussines any more.
But sometime I join the discusion to try to bring different
perspective. I don't expect there will be many that will
agree with me, but this "love is everywhere" and "all
you need is love" way of thinking is a narrow thinking.
>So why blame him when in reality it is ourselves to blame?
if you want to blame us, then first
you have to get a chance. A lot of us never got one.
some did, and then maybe you can blame them. but I would
not.
see it all
--------------------
fear nothing because everything will be forgotten
like tears in the rain.
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>>>What if the guru and the disciple are both right? Or maybe there's a fine line between the two point of views? What if my personal feelings are real and not merely a dream? Something that's shared - a love for someone else. Wouldn't that contradict his perception of the disciple?
NEITHER ARE RIGHT OR WRONG. ITS JUST A STORY TO ILLUSTRATE A PREDICAMENT THAT SOME MIGHT FIND THEMSELVES IN...
>>>Suffering from ignorance is the reason why they didn't wake up yet.
FREEDOM FROM IGNORANCE FREES NOTHING. IT SIMPLY ALLOWS ONE TO STOP LEAKING LIFE FORCE. IT IS ONLY THE BAREST BEGINNING.For the Standing Mother,
DG
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Something to consider when feeling sorry or responsible for the problems that exist and what a warriors stance on this which is of extreme importance for a warrior and that is to arrive and act from "The Place of No Pity" which is a actual movement of your assemblage point according to Don Juan.
The place of no pity is the place that warriors deal with outside contact because "pity" is from the fliers but on the other hand Don Juan would help people only when the element of no "Pity" was present.
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When dealing with people that ask for your help and I don't mind helping people but when they try and deceive you and take advantage of you I will not help them or feel sorry for them.
When people lie to me and have me act within there constructed lie I will never associate with them or have them welcome in my house and I will confront them with their lie even if its a small one.
I do not feel sorry for people that cry on your shoulder when they created there own predicament.
When friends ask for a loan of money I will lend it to them if they pay it back when they say that would.
When I borrow something I bring it back or if I break it I will replace it with something of better value.
These are the standards that I try and impose on my self and find my old behavior traits getting in the way by trying to get people to feel sorry for me and when this happens I recognize it and know that it is from the F.E. influence.
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An elderly gentleman went into the doctor's office and said, Have you got the results back yet?
The doctor said, Yes, and Ive got bad news and bad news.
That sounds terrible; lay it on me doctor.
You have cancer!
Thats terrible. Whats the other bad news?
You have Alzheimers.
The elderly gentleman paused for a moment and said, Thats not so bad, I was worried I might have cancer.
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when we put off our work of attention ... you see what can happen
We are on our way to dying
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I think our personal responsibility for our world first starts with ourselfs first and only when we are from a position of strenth that we can only then help our fellow man.
I tell friends that are in a miserable or unstable condition why help people when you are worse off than them.
D.J. would say he would help people or fellow warriors that he would help them by helping themselfs.
I will not take on the burden of the world of its problems when I am ridden with them myself.
A warriors main objective is to attain his personal power and through the actions that derive from the place of no pity which is the warriors way that we may have the minimum chance to escape the fliers infliction and for me I don't mean to sound selfish but the fact is is that I'm going to save my own ass before I save anyone elses.
Once I attain a level of personal attainment and only then will I spend any of my energy saving the world or people that I choose to help.
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I guess I could sign what you wrote.
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Vrill can you give me a brief description of alchemy is, I remember reading a book "I think" by aushpensky< not the right spelling I know and another book by Allister Crawly over twenty years ago and from what I remember it was not easy reading.
I don't go to the book store as much as I would like to but I want to narrow my search down so I can read other books of simular interest.
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The sad side of blaming is the fact that it means they can't take responsibilities.
Some misconceptions can trigger bad events like a breakup. My brother's been silent for a few days now with his gf and made her think that he doesn't care for her anymore. Maybe it's because he thinks that time will heal the relationship but in reality, it renders their relationship stale and doesn't fix anything. Sometimes action is needed. The objective isn't met without knowing the reason why. In this case, it's because he was and still is an ****. The reason being he's an **** is because they broke up because he didn't care to go to school while his gf was sacrificing her time for her. Paying up his debts for him, lying to my mom that he's going to school and working to pay for rent all the time. At the moment, my brother doesn't want to go to school and asked me earlier to go to work for him instead. The only solution for him is to take responsibility for his own mess. He's messed up. He needs to be responsible for his own self instead of feeling sorry for what he didn't do.
I heard recently that it's better to regret things you did rather than things you didn't do. I couldn't agree more when it comes to this situation they're in. I happen to have to witness it first hand. And personally, I think it was a stupid reason in the first place for them to be in this dump. All he needed to do is sacrifice a little bit of his time for her.
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