Time & the Foreign Installation

[scout1]

FI is a foreign energy in head crown chakra. my apologies..
Mind must be simply cleared by meditation, simply cleared. Its done easily with ones own mind, working with head chakra. With energy in the head, consciously. The Flyers etc. including FI have no will upons one own right mind and brain. Its simply cleared. Its natural and delicate. No psycho needed. Its a few day comfortable process.
Must be simply cleared. Then one can see energy directly as it flows in the Universe and practice the Fire from within book practices (moving AP)
Its inorganic on the bottom (only) nothing else.
http://www.youtube.com/wa...7GVYM&feature=relmfu

[CI5]

"Carola doesn't yet have the Flyer's mind attached. The Flyer's mind is like an octopus. With a dry surface it attaches firmly, and can't be removed. But we're letting a little moisture in there, so there's a little slippage. Carola asks me, 'How many tentacles do I have loose now?' 'Three.' She says, 'Well, if I work really hard maybe I can get another one loose.'



"She doesn't ask for anything. She doesn't complain, she doesn't whine. She doesn't ask for ice cream or chocolate or dolls. She was abandoned as a small child and tells me she knows about loneliness. She says she has enemies, but that's not my concern--she'll take care of them."



- Carlos Castaneda

[Archaos]

Greetings.

The first post of this thread had to do with the idea that time is somehow the FIs weapon.

That may be the "average man's" understanding of time, but not the warriors.

This is one of my favorite topics and quotes by Castaneda:

"When I talk about time, I am not referring to something which is measured by the movement of a clock. Time is

the essence of attention; the Eagle's emanations are made out of time; and properly, when one enters into any

aspect of the other self, one is becoming acquainted with time."



The thing is, there's a big difference between 1st attention time and 2nd attention/Nagual's time.

I also like to think of them as horizontal/linear time and vertical/dimensional time.

So we're really not talking about time as a problem at all. The problem, if you will, is the 1st attention...

or the weak face of the 2nd attention's fixation on the 1st attention.



Granted, the continuity we assign to linear time is also the ego/tonal's continuity, and seeing this "illusion"/option

for what it is is truly liberating. We're really back to the belief or certainty of our one description as final = easy target.

1st attention = fish in a barrel.



Time does exist for warriors. It isn't psychological time. It is physical. "The Eagle's emanations are made out of time."

Each emanation is a different frequency/vibration and frequency = time.



For example - AM radio waves are about 10 to the 4th power wavelength in meters. Gamma rays are around 10 to the -14.

Do you see how many gamma wavelengths/lifetimes can exist within one AM radio wavelength/lifetime?

So gamma can appear to be nearly immortal in relation to AM radio, and that's the extreme example.

Even visible light is 10 to the 10th times smaller than AM radio. If you lived 10,000,000,000 times longer than your friends,

you would seem immortal. This is the time sorcerers talk about. If immortality is what you want, "become acquainted with time".



Just as crystal shatters at a certain frequency, so too does the foreign installation and the human form have their vibrational limits.

[DoktorGreen]

Excellent comments, Archaos!
Can you comment on existence beyond time? What is your experience?
Dok

[Archaos]

DoktorGreen wrote:
Excellent comments, Archaos!
Can you comment on existence beyond time? What is your experience?
Dok

Hi Doktor Green! 
No, I can't.
My experience is that existence = time. The Eagle's emanations are made out of time.
Existence beyond time is non-existence. It can't be experienced because that would mean there
is an experiencer having an experience and there would be two things and thus time.

[DoktorGreen]

Thanks! Should have expected that one!

[Archaos]

DoktorGreen wrote:
Thanks! Should have expected that one!

Is that equivalent to your perception of 3rd attention and Oneness (if i remember correctly)?

[DoktorGreen]

No. For me, time = perception. Without perception there is no time. The Third Attention is beyond perception, but becoming the Nahual can be alluded to, or metaphorically described. Every description I have ever heard is weak and greatly lacking though. only the 'becoming' has value. Otherwise its just information...



Blessings

Dok

[nemo.primeradiant]

Attention definition: focus
DJ Eagles Gift
He called the smallest the first attention, and said that it is the consciousness that every normal person has developed in order to deal with the daily world. It encompasses the awareness of the physical body.
Another larger portion he called the second attention, and described it as the awareness we need in order to perceive our luminous cocoon and to act as luminous beings. He said that the second attention remains in the background for the duration of our lives unless it is brought forth through deliberate training or by an accidental trauma. He said the second attention encompasses the awareness of the luminous body. 
He called the last portion, which was the largest, the third attention-an immeasurable consciousness which engages undefinable aspects of the awareness of the physical and the luminous bodies.



(nemo) immeasurable and undefinable yes, in no place does it say it is beyond perception. When someone contemplates infinity it is immeasurable and undefinable yet we can perceive it right before our eyes. There is infinitely large and infinitely small we can only see the beginnings of both, that is our magic, and our assemblage point position within time. This is an irreducible truth.

[DoktorGreen]

Nice comments Nemo. Its good to know what DJM calls the various levels of awareness. What is your description of them? I have shared mine.
Blessings,
Dok

[nemo.primeradiant]

I agree and "see" verbatim Don Juan's description, I have put many things in my own words if that is your concern. Though if i put it in my words you may still not see for yourself what I was hoping you would see. I am okay with you having your own view, and of course you are welcome to it, but it as I have shown is not what DJ was saying.

[nemo.primeradiant]

nemo said



(nemo) immeasurable and undefinable yes, in no place does it say it is beyond perception. When someone contemplates infinity it is immeasurable and undefinable yet we can perceive it right before our eyes. There is infinitely large and infinitely small we can only see the beginnings of both, that is our magic, and our assemblage point position within time. This is an irreducible truth.
I am gathering that you read that part Dok and did not "see" it. and we got the you show me yours and i will show you mine, response. Now I as a rule have a distaste for the two tiered forum system established here at nagual forums, one being the private, and the other being the public. Those in the private contribute out here only enough to keep the public forum going, but generally their contributions could be described as platitudes. 
Having said that, back to Dok, We have been conditioned Dok to look and not see. If you would like me to use a different word for it, it would be somatention. This thread is called Time and the Foreign Installation, and I have not read this thread, but the title is an aspect of somatention, tonal linear time is contaminated, and results in the first attention, which generally is frowned upon and given a bum rap. It is actually something quite unique and fun. The analogy is awareness does not generally realize how much fun it is having when it is crying heaped up in the corner, upset about something, why because they do not "see" their situation, they are just looking.
The definition I use for second attention is related to second attention warriors and their view of reality and is not the same as the view of the third and if you like I will give you a new word for that attention Lumatention denoting their bias towards the energetic and not "seeing" the material. So the blueprint of that state of being commands a fixed intent also that the material is something to escape and energetic is the cats ass  
So now the third attention, this is harder to explain not because I can't explain it I can, but the person reading the description will still carry the contaminant, and the contaminants intent is to keep the assemblage points focus of attention in place unless the observer has grasped the need for impeccability, and impeccability by design, is the road to the third attention, which unfolds a completely different cognitive view. So then the description looses something for a variety of complex and simple blockages depending on the energy of the observer.
So describing the third attention needs to have two things established in the observer reading the description, one an understanding of infinity, and a lack of bias of first and second attention views. This is the struggle/fun of the path with heart. I would use the completion hieroglyph by Dan/Lu to aid in the description, but he does not like them to be used, someone else withdrawing. The name for third attention warrior hmm let's see what would you like turdattention, trytention, tritention newtention intratention, freaquatention freaquatension fractatention maybe naguatention.
Third attention/Infinity, both macro and micro are not containable/quantifiable so if you see putting an edge to your thinking/seeing that view has a bias, of either the first or second attention, and can be seen/recognized by you as not being third attention perspective. The material realm is infinite and the energetic realm is infinite, what floats around in that infinity is intent, YOU, your intent. What is you? If you have not recapitulated, you are your history, if you are not on the road of impeccability you are an energetic knot of blockages to "seeing" If you have got past all those restrictions to fluidity, then you are on the road to intent that is free from bondage of limited perception. That being that energy and matter are separate realms. The perception that they are separate is a condition of a assemblage point position of either the first or second attention. If that is understood by you then one thing will lead to another and you will be and understand what alignment can do, what will is,  you will see energy directly and the flow of things will dance with you and play, and you with it, One.

[nemo.primeradiant]

My wife just sent me this, see that's how it works! This shows the structure of the material realm layers upon layers. Notice the part nearer the end that references dynamics of size and energy.



Hunting the Hidden Dimension

[DoktorGreen]

Interesting observations nemo!
I don't have much time to respond right now, but I will say that I agree with your assessments.  For myself, I have found that as I come near the high boundaries of the formed universes, (this is what I call the second attention) I experience a terribly strong pull. This pull dissolves me and I "become" a great sea of filaments. This has happened many times and after great effort, I was able to hold onto the self and observe this sea of filaments. They are translucent and have pulses going thru them. Then, when they dissolve me and absorb me, I am no more. Only the Great Sea of Fibers is there. My edges are rough and I have many probes there transforming the roughness and expanding my purity.
Now, within this awareness of Oneness I have no perception. I have a type of awareness as the Great Sea. I am not infinite since I have edges. But I have no individual identity. And it is most awesome! I want to say this is the island of the nahual, but who can say.
This is the basis of my knowing.It saturates all my layers nowdays. Maybe I shouldn't call it the Third attention. Who knows?
Dok

[Archaos]

Beautiful Dok. You have a knack for articulating the wonderous.

[Archaos]

nemo wrote:

So describing the third attention needs to have two things established in the observer reading the description, one an understanding of infinity, and a lack of bias of first and second attention views. This is the struggle/fun of the path with heart.

The material realm is infinite and the energetic realm is infinite, ...




I really see these two comments as especially significant.
I was conversing with someone today about the infinite known or material world. He thought it was finite.
A couple examples came to mind:
Pi is a known quantity in a sense. We know how to calculate it - that's no mystery.
But its numbers never end. We might calculate it to 10 billion digits or 100 gazillion but we will never find the end.
A guitar is a known. We can measure the strings and their tension and map all the chords...
But we can never play every possible song that can come from a guitar.
That's just one guitar, let alone the known universe!
Known doesn't = finite. And this is the unified field of the known, the unknown and the unknowable: they're all infinite.
It seems impossible because the known is an island in the unknown. But a guitar is an island on an island on an island, etc
and it is still unlimited. Remember DJ said every furrow is infinite...
"a tunnel of infinite length and width, a tunnel of reflective furrows. Every furrow was infinite, and there were infinite numbers of them."
What I mean by the unified field is not a metaphor. The 1st, 2nd and 3rd attentions are all the same "place". Infinity is right here.

[DoktorGreen]

We only light up a finite number of filaments in this consensual reality. Its true that "Infinity is right here". The question is Can we become infinity? Can we lose the self? Can we release perception? Can we merge with the nahual?   Or are we content to be observers. Spectators. Describers.
Without a Nahual assist, we only have the avenue of dreaming. The double dreams 24/7. It doesn't matter if its tonal puppet is asleep. We dream on many layers at once! And here is something to stir the soup... on every one of those layers/worlds/lives, the double has established an AP! And there is a relative time in every case. Finite numbers of filaments aligned there too. .
So, to acquire the infinite awareness (third attention), we must do much more than finding unique descriptions. We must become. And I would like to here more from people about their becoming.
Dok

[glance left]

Becoming. Becoming what? Something else, I guess...in terms of perception...something less bored...less boring...less dismissive of what I've been skimming over.



Gazing meditation helps me in this regard. Its a beginning. Eyes open, directly ahead...looking at, perceiving the presumably solid world around me with me, a presumably solid being, within it....and then intending the perceptual shift...to soften that world right before my very eyes...watch as certainty (Kansas) goes bye-bye and inflections of fluid energy begin to emerge. Its been a verrrrry long emergence, but emerging it is! Slowly but surely. The air itself, previous empty and unimportant...now becomes alive...utterly teaming with squirming, darting streaks of light and shadowy particles going every which-a-way. The light changes...shifts...darkens, in a way, but in another way becomes more luminous....objects begin to glow with some ethereal signature. The straight lines of, say, a wall...well...they're just not straight any more....become subject to fluid rippling/wave-like phenomenon that I can see moving through everything. All this with a premium feeling...blooming warmth/coolness throughout the body.



I can't hold onto it, though, when I get up from my sessions (yet! )...although the signature feeling in the body lingers for quite some time typically, making my day a much better place to be. I don't know anything else but to simply persist, in this regard....taking that softening intention on into the busy hustle/bustle of my very solid, seemingly important daily life.

[quantumshaman]

glance left wrote:

Becoming. Becoming what? Something else, I guess...in terms of perception...something less bored...less boring...less dismissive of what I've been skimming over.
Gazing meditation helps me in this regard. Its a beginning. Eyes open, directly ahead...looking at, perceiving the presumably solid world around me with me, a presumably solid being, within it....and then intending the perceptual shift...to soften that world right before my very eyes...watch as certainty (Kansas) goes bye-bye and inflections of fluid energy begin to emerge. Its been a verrrrry long emergence, but emerging it is! Slowly but surely. The air itself, previous empty and unimportant...now becomes alive...utterly teaming with squirming, darting streaks of light and shadowy particles going every which-a-way. The light changes...shifts...darkens, in a way, but in another way becomes more luminous....objects begin to glow with some ethereal signature. The straight lines of, say, a wall...well...they're just not straight any more....become subject to fluid rippling/wave-like phenomenon that I can see moving through everything. All this with a premium feeling...blooming warmth/coolness throughout the body.
I can't hold onto it, though, when I get up from my sessions (yet! )...although the signature feeling in the body lingers for quite some time typically, making my day a much better place to be. I don't know anything else but to simply persist, in this regard....taking that softening intention on into the busy hustle/bustle of my very solid, seemingly important daily life.
There comes a time when the state you are describing as "gazing meditation" becomes permanent, or at least semi-permanent.  Meaning - one begins to live in the "gazing" state and must make a conscious choice to re-engage the consensus reality when required.  In essence, one "becomes" the vessel and channel of second attention, though words are just an inadequate attempt to describe what is impossible to describe.
Since Dok asked about "becoming," I will say that, for me, it has been a process of simultaneously "remembering" and "forgetting."  Remembering the other self (the double).  And "forgetting" the limitations of the consensus.  What I've "become" as a result is a filter for experience and a conduit for gnosis (silent knowing).  The humanform is a memory in a picture book.
QS

[DoktorGreen]

Hi QS,
I can relate to your comments. There is a sense of putting on whatever position is useful at the moment. Sometimes there is an energetic feeling to the transition.... sometimes not. We have a tendency to forget that it is the double that has the choice to bypass the Eagle... not the tonal self.
Dok

[Archaos]

DoktorGreen wrote:

We only light up a finite number of filaments in this consensual reality. Its true that "Infinity is right here". The question is Can we become infinity? Can we lose the self? Can we release perception? Can we merge with the nahual?   Or are we content to be observers. Spectators. Describers.
Without a Nahual assist, we only have the avenue of dreaming. The double dreams 24/7. It doesn't matter if its tonal puppet is asleep. We dream on many layers at once! And here is something to stir the soup... on every one of those layers/worlds/lives, the double has established an AP! And there is a relative time in every case. Finite numbers of filaments aligned there too. .
So, to acquire the infinite awareness (third attention), we must do much more than finding unique descriptions. We must become. And I would like to here more from people about their becoming.
Dok

Hi Dok.
We can say lots of things are true and not know them.
"To reason it out is not to verify it. I am not interested in your agreement or disagreement,
but in your attempt to comprehend what is involved in this truth." - FFW
If you REALise this is Infinity, what are you lacking?
Again, you are insisting on a stalking view - becoming, rather than being.
Stalking/tracking/hunting is a step by step process, track by track, linear. It's not the only way to
experience this universe.

"There are lots of things a warrior can do at a certain time which he couldn't do years before.
Those things themselves did not change; what changed was his idea of himself." - TOP
Thus new "unique" descriptions. Have you forgotten that the world is a description?
How many steps are there to changing a description?
How many steps to wake up from a dream?
How many steps to Intent?
Don't you know it is Infinity that folded itself to become those furrows, and further folded itself to
gaze into one of them? How can one become what one always is?
All your "can we" questions are one question to me - can we unfold?
Yes. How far do you want to unfold? The answer is "this far. right here."
I know this because "this" is what is.

How many steps to unfold this? One. If you want to call that "becoming", you can.
You want to hear about my becoming - it's an infinite process.
I have never reached the second attention linearly, through steps.
I have never "became" the second attention.
Have you?
We can't step our way out of this dimension.
Stepping/stalking/gazing into a furrow eventually leads to realisation/dreaming/placing the attention elsewhere,
not because linear stepping works, but because we realise it doesn't! So it does and doesn't work.
It leads to boredom, saturation, exhaustion, and then dreaming takes over.
Why not let dreaming take over without all that work through seeing?
Every one does what works for them. But I have detailed a truth here.
There is no horizontal way out of a plane - we have to simply realise that vertical has always existed as an option.
"Warriors do not win victories by beating their heads against walls, but by overtaking the walls.
Warriors jump over walls; they don't demolish them." - TOP

[nemo.primeradiant]

Archaos post count, 41 in two weeks give or take, nemo post count two years 32 (ten in last week)
Projected post count for Archaos in two years, 2132 give or take, sorry inside joke.
Now when I say inside joke, that is the unknown to those who don't know all the information that makes that funny, so I am left needing to explain what is obvious to me. I can come up with the information so that it becomes the known. Then we all have the same information.
This is used in humor often and having a history within the scene one is looking at gives depth to the situation. For example I lived in a place that was called the barn. It was half barn and half pieces from the Eatons mansion and usually there was eight of us, four girls four boys. I lived there in my twenties and we had big parties etc. Being into DJ I attempted modest sojourns into stalking such as always volunteering the truth. Then I would go for months never telling the truth or talking indirectly to someone through someone else. So when someone new showed up everyone I lived with hung around to watch as the new person would eventually get around to talking to me. Trying to get to know me, things like that. Well I had no agreement with anyone not to blow my cover or anything like that, but it all just became a play and everyone was involved. So even me just sitting beside the new person that did not know any better was funny to everyone else.
What I am getting at is that the eagle knows everything, it is everything. It could and probably has created beings that know everything, and are omnipotent right from the beginning. We are not, we happen to be in the dark, about many things we don't know if the joke is on us or not. So we must accumulate that knowledge and climb the mountain, go down the road and pick up the pieces to completion. Furthering the human potential as your forum heading says.
So back to sitting beside the person that did not know I was a big fat liar, there together the known and the unknown side by side and and my roomies ready for the inevitable question.
The question you are asking Dok is about becoming, the stage is set you need proof that someone has accomplished something, and if I told you some things that I can do that are hard to believe. The next instant in time you would considering whether or not to believe me, am I someone you can believe or not believe. 
From my perspective you don't know what I know, and you are a bit like scout1 looking for someone that has accomplished something that you have already set out ahead of time as something of value. You are looking ahead into time and formulating an expectation that you have set, and I tell you that is a first attention bias, plain and simple. This is the foreign installation projecting into time, your reason has given you a nice big fat expectation.

DJ said this human form we exist in may be the sweetest there is, I like to think we are perfect as we are, but tomorrow I will let the spirit work with me just a little more, and reveal one more little secret it has been waiting to reveal, to me for an eternity.

[glance left]

"There comes a time when the state you are describing as "gazing meditation" becomes permanent, or at least semi-permanent. Meaning - one begins to live in the "gazing" state and must make a conscious choice to re-engage the consensus reality when required. In essence, one "becomes" the vessel and channel of second attention, though words are just an inadequate attempt to describe what is impossible to describe."



Yeah, I can see where that might present a whole new spectrum of challenges But, beyond that, for me its just speculation...so, I'll leave it to those who've experienced it directly.

[glance left]

"We have a tendency to forget that it is the double that has the choice to bypass the Eagle... not the tonal self."



There's a big difference, isn't there? I think I've gotten a taste of this difference...the energy body has its own "agenda" so to speak...and when I'm lucid and find it in dreaming (I think that's what's happening) its as if my "lucidity"...some thread of continuity of awareness that connects to tonal consciousness or whatever...is simply along for the ride. The energy body knows what to do, it seems....its space for action is immediacy...far beyond what I'm used to experiencing here in daily life, that's for sure

[nemo.primeradiant]

"We have a tendency to forget that it is the double that has the choice to bypass the Eagle... not the tonal self." 
This is second attention bias, stated as clearly as can be, thank you who ever said it earlier and you agree glance? hmm and you Lone Wolf?
There is no eagle to bypass, it is only a description of an energetic state, the path to that state is not to give the tonal self second status at all, but to give it a different view, correct information, another working construct, and the energy not to **** out under pressure.