The Myth of Schizophrenia

[Turin Otzaki]

Anyone got any feedback on this? is it true?
http://www.youtube.com/wa...e=player_embedded#at=139

[Blue totem]

Well being a schizophrenic myself, I can tell you that this condition is indeed an illness.
No, this video is not accurate.
Even if its true that many schizophrenics are attracted by spirituality,
its not true to say that a psychosis is a spiritual crisiss.
Chemical imbalance is not a myth, it very real.

[Turin Otzaki]

Thanks for that BT, I was hoping for your input. Can I ask, how do you know you are not buying into something that is not true? How do you know that the chemical imbalance is the cause rather than an effect?

[Guest]

Turin Otzaki wrote:Thanks for that BT, I was hoping for your input. Can I ask, how do you know you are not buying into something that is not true? How do you know that the chemical imbalance is the cause rather than an effect?This is an interesting topic.  I have done a bit of research on this myself.  Ill see if I can dig up the articles I found regarding -- shamanic perspective on mental illnesses.

[Blue totem]

Turin Otzaki wrote:
Thanks for that BT, I was hoping for your input. Can I ask, how do you know you are not buying into something that is not true? How do you know that the chemical imbalance is the cause rather than an effect?
Doctors dont know much about schizophrenia. The brain is difficult to understand,
and many breaktroughs have to happen.
Modern science is incomplete, because they only treat what they can see.
Doctors are not aware of the spirit world or of the foreign installation...
But aside from that, I can tell you that schizophrenia is an illness.
I'm pretty sure that in 100 years, schizophrenia will no longer exist because
of the advancements of medical science. I'm sure of it.

[Naturyl]

Blue totem is correct. Although there can be similarities between spiritual insight and several forms of mental illness, the two should not be equated. To do so is potentially damaging to both spiritual practice and our approach to the reality of mental illness.

[scout1]

BRAIN DISABLING TREATMENTS IN PSYCHIATRY



http://books.google.fi/bo...thdrawal%20death&f=false

[scout1]

Illness is real, disintegrating personality, if not halted.





Schi is mental ilness, not a disease of brain, thats secondary process.





Neuroleptic drugs are shrinking the brain, not the illness.





current neuroleptic drugs are terrible mess, those drugs are effective and life saving in acute treatment of psychosis, but prolonged exposures are brain damaging.



New, better drugs will be developed in 10-20 years.

[Lunoor]

This is an interesting article and web site:



http://theicarusproject.n...ctives-on-mental-illness





I deleted almost all of the above due to the fact that this site is up for sale.




Scout and Bt you may choose to believe the western interpretation of the phenomena of schizophrenia and have faith in the western mode or the future of the western mode of treatment , as you like it. I say that the phenomena is/are amystery and prefer an interpretation  more holistic and life-affirming.

[scout1]

Loss of personal power, determination, reason, purpose, survival.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_disorder

[Lunoor]

You know, the western world doesn't have all the answers, there is no sensible reason to lay ones eggs in only that basket. I can see that sometimes those meds for instance, are a help and sometimes even life-saving but they are a poor patch for a bleeding artery that in part proceeds from the civilized paradigm as it manifests in our lives and in their quality. The artery that is bleeding is draining our heart and some folks, theirs is dry already. People become numbers and statistics and dollar bills get big in their eyes.


This world  view alienates us from our heart.



One of the first things a kid learns in this world is that crying bugs people--many of them get beat for it-battered for having a heart that soon shrinks to hide from beatings of all kinds: verbal, visual, auditory, physical, spiritual and emotional. the child soon shrinks in many ways to blend in with the surroundings.



We live next to neighbors we don't know and drive around in killing machines, most don't think twice about all the dead yotes and crows on the side of the roads or consider they might die a not too good death just to get to work at a job they likely dislike. Maybe in your country Scout, they ride more in mass transit but it still has the same killing effect and not only the beings that get violently ended under a vehicle but also the Gulf and too many to count other oil spills.



The most personal and spiritual aspects of life are subjected to intrusive violation from the state; they tell you how you are to be born and how you are to die and they use force.



Consider this, I would like for my corpse to be treated such: I would like it to be allowed to decay and when the flesh gone, bones bare I would like my corpse to be taken by my good friendswith whom i have enjoyed so many musical and blissful experience and I would like them to make percussive instruments with my bones and they could make music with me. My friends would do that but they can't because of someones else's beliefs about death.



The state imposes that on me.



You can't even bury your own dead anymore, you go to a funeral home and "make arrangements" and pay exorbitant prices. You can't be born without getting a number and a value, you can't be educated at home by your parents without the States approval. You can't just leave your belongings to your family or friends when you die, instead at this very deep time of life your family will have to deal with the state's intrusion with legalities concerning wills and probate, usury and debt. Again, with exorbitant prices in more than one way and long and drawn out bureaucratic hoops to jump through.



Money is valued above people, bondage is the way, bondage to an insane tyrannical force that forbids critical appraisal lest it be seen for what it is and left to rot.



To get back to what I started with, it is from within this matrix of illness that the western world defines the experience that is called schizophrenia, I am reminded of what Christ is said to have said about motes in one's eyes. How can some way of looking that has such a big log in it's eye be accurate about anything? especially illness?



Until the physician heals himself he is no good!



And now back to what we call shamanism, and what is known as the shammanic illness does bear resemblance to what is called schizophrenia: they sometimes have what the western world calls hallucinations, they sometimes use language in odd ways which the West calls echolalia and sometimes poetry : ) and other names. They sometimes experience dissolution of personality, sometimes they are possessed by spirits...the West, they call that superstition and delusion. The thing is, in shamanic cultures, they know how to put the pieces back together, how to heal.



Here our way of looking at the world and the loss of the knowledge for repair gets in the way.



May the west learn to see with new eyes, The best of all worlds!

[Lunoor]

Also, in shamanic cultures the person who has this crisis and completes it returns healed and can heal. That person now knows how to enter and return from the other worlds, that person is living their vocation. I think there is much for us in the west to learn.

[Lunoor]

I see I overlooked the nuances in your feelings about psychiatry Scout, sorry bout that.

[Lunoor]

Reading this just now...looks interesting:



http://www.jungcircle.com/roberts2.html

[Turin Otzaki]

Just came across this in my travels,

Schizophrenic Visions as
Manifestations of the Collective Unconscious


Karen Leblond


Augustana University College


 


A paper submitted to Dr. Jayne Gackenbach as
part of the course requirements for Psy 473 (Sleep and Dreams),
April, 1997


 


"The unconscious is the name given to the
‘container’ of the ‘something’s’ which
are able to interfere with the normal conscious directions of
life." This basic description of the states of being
reflects the view of the conscious/unconscious dichotomy; a view
held by Western thought for a considerable period of its history.
Attempts to define this dichotomous relationship has been argued
from various standpoints with little success as one soon realizes
that the distinction is insufficient and simplistic. The concept
of the states of being was drastically altered when Carl Jung
abandoned the notion of the dichotomy by introducing a division
of the psyche into groups. More importantly, he was able to
justify his claims, particularly through his work with
schizophrenics, whose visions he postulated as being empirical
manifestations of the unconscious. In order to see if this
evidence is valid, one must examine Jung’s theory of the
states of being, as well as its parallels with the visions of
schizophrenics and the dreaming of "normals".


When examining Jung’s description of the states of being,
one discovers that the definitions of the terms are relatively
consistent with previous descriptions. Rather, a unique and
distinguishing feature of his teaching was his division of the
contents of the unconscious as well as his explanation of its
relation to consciousness. Essentially, the underlying difference
was Jung’s contention that the relation between conscious
and unconscious states emerged from separations in energy
thresholds. This accounts for the fact that material in the
unconscious is not as easily recoverable as it explains that the
items in this area are at a deeper level with a much higher
threshold. Therefore, one would require more activation in order
to bring these items into consciousness. This analogy of the
states of being as defined by energy thresholds in turn refutes
the dichotomy, viewing the states as comprising a comprehensive
continuum. "For it is rather the case that every psychic
content is to some degree unconscious and that consequently the
psyche is both conscious and unconscious at once...."


"According to Jung, the most important groupings of the
psychic contents are Consciousness, the Personal Unconscious and
the Collective Unconscious." Jung’s notion of the
deeper levels and energy thresholds also applied to his division
of the unconscious into the personal and the collective. The
personal unconscious was identified as residing closer to the
surface of consciousness with a threshold lower than that of the
collective unconscious as it "...comprises personal
experiences that have been repressed and forgotten." These
psychic elements have essentially fallen out of consciousness and
may therefore be considered as being near consciousness. "In
other words, the top layer of the unconscious is bound up with
the personal characteristics of the individual, and for this
reason Jung calls it the ‘Personal Unconscious’: its
contents and the way they are grouped are different in each
individual."


The notion of the personal unconscious is a relatively easy
one to comprehend, but Jung’s notion of the collective
unconscious is considerably more complex. Also called the
impersonal, objective or transpersonal psyche, "...[Jung]
defines the collective unconscious as the part of the psyche that
owes existence exclusively to heredity, and not to personal
experiences which had been conscious at one time and then
disappeared from consciousness." Therefore, the contents of
the collective unconscious reside much deeper within the psyche
and, in terms of the analogy of the energy thresholds, possesses
the highest threshold. Therefore, the contents of the collective
unconscious are rarely accessible to the conscious mind. The
uniqueness of this level of the psyche is also in that it belongs
to every man in general, reflecting an inherent part of its
nature. This deeper level of the psychic contents results in a
reflection of the macrocosm as it "...constrains the whole
spiritual heritage of mankind’s evolution’s, born anew
in the brain structure of every individual."


As a result of the deep threshold and inherent nature of the
contents of the collective unconscious, Jung further hypothesized
that these contents manifested themselves through archetypes.
"As a general rule, the unconscious aspect of any event is
revealed to us in dreams, where it appears not as a rational
thought but a symbolic image." Therefore, the concept of
archetypes consist of "...primordial images and patterns of
symbol formation which recur throughout mankind." These
symbols allowed for the representation of the content of the
collective unconscious in one’s dreams. In fact, he felt
that "...dreams are the most frequently and universally
accessible source for the investigation of man’s symbolizing
faculty." This most likely arises from the fact that in a
dream state, consciousness is not present to protect the ego from
the manifestations of the unconscious mind.


Jung’s discovery of the collective unconscious and the
function of archetypes arose from his own dreams and visions, but
more importantly from the investigation of the fantasies of his
schizophrenic patients. Jung’s interpretations of the
visions of schizophrenics is an excellent example of an empirical
manifestation of the unconscious, providing justification for his
division of the psyche. "Jung became increasingly fascinated
by the psychotic ideas of mentally ill people, and particularly
of schizophrenics, and it was in fact his interest in this
material which culminated in his discovery of the collective
unconscious."


The basic tenet of the connection of schizophrenic visions to
the collective unconscious is that "...although
[schizophrenics] have gained an access to the collective
unconscious, they have been, figuratively speaking, swallowed up
by it so they have lost the ability to function as an ego and
relate in a practical way to the objective world." This
ability to be "swallowed up" is related to a
predisposition resulting from an initial psychological problem
which has been present. In fact, Jung felt that whether or not
the problem gains momentum and eventually results in
schizophrenia is dependent on the disposition of the personality
of the individual in question.


The problem that may consequently initiate schizophrenia is
evidence of the connection to the collective unconscious.
According to Jung, the problem may arise from an ignorance of the
content of one’s dreams, whose function is to
"...compensate for the deficiencies of their personalities,
and at the same time it warns them of the dangers in their
present course." This compensatory function of dreaming is
particularly related to Jung’s contention of psychosis as
"...a mental condition in which formerly unconscious
elements are given the value of a real factor to an extent that
the take the place of reality." In actuality, this
compensation may reside within the boundaries of reality, but
someone who is mentally unbalanced will try to defend themselves
against the elements manifested by their unconscious, refusing to
accept its compensatory significance. This consequently
reinforces one-sidedness which essentially results in an
unhealthy personality. In contrast, Jung contends that a
comprehensive personality is requisite of a healthy balance. This
one-sidedness works in a "vicious circle" as the
ignorance of unconscious manifestations will result in an
intensification of the unconscious to serve in a compensatory
capacity. As a result, the contents of these manifestations will
become more distorted and "...the forms in which they will
become visible and audible will become increasingly bizarre.
Since the material we are dealing with is derived in the
unconscious, its language will be peculiar in any case; however,
owing to the resistance of the conscious mind, it will become
even weirder than before."


This description of the struggle of the conscious and the
unconscious mind in the schizophrenic is particularly relevant
through its reflection of the existence of a collective
unconscious. "The elements of the collective unconscious are
most easily seen in dreams and fantasies because these things are
the least controlled by a conscious sense of the limits of real
life and, as we have said, they are most apparent in all cases of
serious psychoses." This also accounts for the bizarreness
which is characteristic of the visions of schizophrenics as the
general symbols manifested by the collective unconscious are so
far removed from a particular individual that they may appear as
being beyond comprehension. This, in turn, demonstrates that the
conscious mind resists anything conscious and unknown, and their
greater oddness also shows how the conscious psyche tends to
resist them more. Therefore, these oddities will be most likely
to appear "...when one is relaxed and off guard in dreams or
day-dreams...and also in serious cases of mental
disturbance."


The description of the manifestations associated with the
primary symptoms of schizophrenia are not only relevant through
their example of the presence of the collective unconscious, but
also through their connections to and implications for normal
dreaming. For example, the unconscious material associated with a
"normal personality" is identical to that of
schizophrenics. The primary underlying difference, as previously
discussed, is in the reactions associated with this material,
resulting in its emergence into the conscious world. As evidence,
Jung cites the frequent occurrence of latent psychoses. In fact,
"...we find that same analogy existing between the primary
dreams of schizophrenics and the dreams of normal people. You can
even say that the dreamer is ‘normally insane’. Both
the personal and the collective dream material is present in the
symptomatology of schizophrenia, though collective material seems
to predominate." As a result, one can describe
schizophrenics as passing their lives in a dreamlike condition.


Overall, "...[Jung] regarded the schizophrenic process as
an archetypal, instinctive reaction which is distorted by
grotesque, absurd and chaotic associations." This inevitably
results in a split between the ego and the complexes because the
schizophrenic resides in and experiences the unconscious as a
normal stimulation. This emerges as a complete split and
disintegration in their personality as they lose a coherent
connection with a comprehensive psychic totality. "It is the
curse of the schizophrenic that he no longer fights for his
unity, but prefers to identify himself with the unconscious
content."


It is clearly evident that the schizophrenic serves as an
example of what Jung hypothesizes to be the division of the
unconscious state into two psyches. The struggle between the
conscious and unconscious mind resulting in this circumstance of
visions characteristic of schizophrenia also suggests that the
compensatory function of dreaming plays a key role in the
development of this disorder. Specifically, it suggests to the
"normal" dreamer that the manifestations of the
unconscious as present in dreams should not be ignored. If so,
they may manifest themselves in various ways, including the
individual becoming consumed by the unconscious message as in
schizophrenics or the realization of what the unconscious had
attempted to forewarn. Therefore, one of the most important
messages that can be derived from Jung’s theory of the
states of being is that one should not resist the unconscious
mind as the two exist together in the universe as a comprehensive
reality.



References


Babcock, W. (1983).
A Spiritual Psychology. New York:
Harold Institute.


Cox, D. (1968).
Modern Psychology: The Teachings of Carl
Gustav Jung. New York: Barnes & Noble Inc.


Jung, C.G. (1964).
Man and His Symbols. London: Aldus
Books Limited.


Meier, C.A. (1984).
The Unconscious in Its Empirical
Manifestations. Boston, MA: Sigo Press.


Moacanin, R. (1986).
Jung's Psychology and Tibetan
Buddhism: Western and Eastern Paths to the Heart. London:
Wisdom Publications.


Shelburne, W.A. (1988).
Mythos and Logos in the Thought of
Carl Jung: The Theory of the Collective Unconscious in the
Scientific Perspective. Albany, NY: State University of New
York Press.




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