While you were sleeping

[Wei Shan Yang]

Zorba wrote: I don't know what you see. I regard most people here as socially-driven because they are more interested in discussion around spiritual rhetoric and terminology than pragmatic solutions to path-walking affairs.

I see that not attaching to anything IS a pragmatic solution. Also that we never are attached actually...it only appears so. And by communicating this here at this forum, or any forum, or any discussion that is open to such topics, it can bring that experience out for others to either agree, disagree, or be exposed to these possibilities for the first time. So I don't see discussions as not being pragmatic, its quite the opposite. Its good to communicate our experiences. Our expereinces are path-walking affairs. To put them into words does not make them impractical, again, quite the opposite.

[Zorba the Greek]

I wouldn't go to the middle of a transited road and start asking people how to build my house nor asking them what do they think of my ongoing building.


For that matter I would talk with an engineer, an architect and an interiors designer.


I'm just spit balling here, but I'm guessing that they don't know ****.


Agreeing and disagreeing are the same for this matter: not knowing. A social construct.


My house is for myself. I can take guests, but I won't let others arrange it to THEIR liking when it is I who has to live there.


That's how this whole mess begun!


PS: I forgot the landscaper... my sweethearts are going to kill me.

[Wei Shan Yang]

about agreeing and disagreeing is just saying...whatever I may communicate I don't care nor expect you to agree, you can disagree. Makes no difference to me, I am happy to communicate what I am happy to communicate.



The act of communicating has value. And I know you don't go through your daily affairs without doing it, obviously for one, you do it here.

[Zorba the Greek]

Thing is, on the topic of spirituality, your beliefs and opinions will find themselves clashing with reality over and over. This is hardly a fretless state. We as people can agree and disagree on things, but it won't change reality.

[Wei Shan Yang]

We don't necessarily have to talk about beliefs and opinions, we can talk about experience too. Our experience of reality. You are doing it now.

[Zorba the Greek]

OH MY GOD!

[Wei Shan Yang]

hence the value of communication

[Zorba the Greek]

I don't **** about communication, but about the quality of most communications.


Gotta love the Internet though. You can find all kinds of things and individuals.

[Wei Shan Yang]

"I don't **** about communication, but about the quality of most communications."



Imagine never communicating...no going to happen is it? No man is an island.



like that lyric "you're perfect yes its true, but without me you are only you."

[Gonzo]

Wei Shan....care to join us in chat?
Just click on Ixtlan Cafe

[Zorba the Greek]

I'm an island... a cool island... one of those that are lost in the middle of the pacific... Castaway's Island!






(Minus Wilson)

[Zorba the Greek]

"Wake up. I'm horny!"

[Wei Shan Yang]

not quite a gotcha.



B for originality



D- for content accuracy

[Wei Shan Yang]

Getting back to the discussion...



You regard most people as socially driven.



I regard that many identify socially, but that identity is temporary no matter what. What happens is people "come back again and again" to a perspective, thinking its the same perspective when its not actually, because nothing is ever the same. But the act of identifying makes a stable experience of sorts and then people can manipulate and be manipulated by this mode of perception. But still it is dropped once a new task presents itself, such as going to sleep.

[The Hidalgo]

A: Me dear, not everything I say revolves around you. It was a joke related to the title of the thread.


B: Dropped, or putted on hold? People doesn't really sleeps. The physical body just drops. The emotional mind keeps going.


Remember the amazing zen dude with his super amazing skills?


"When I eat, I eat... when I sleep, I sleep."


That's not a given for the vast majority of people.


ps: If the picture would have been about you, I would have wrote "Wake up. I can't wait to talk about emptyness with you."

[Wei Shan Yang]

ps: If the picture would have been about you, I would have wrote "Wake up. I can't wait to talk about emptyness with you."



now that's funny : )



What I mean about emotions though is there is not just one long chain of emotion or one long chain of thought, there are gaps. Nothing can be apprehended truly, where is it? Moments gone.

[The Hidalgo]

Which brings us to the mastery of attention. We put the emphasis, were we put our attention.


Elaborating on this, the basic procedure to stop the world and see, among other things, is simply shutting of the internal dialog until by sheer side-effect of not paying attention to our internal follies, we go beyond them.

[Wei Shan Yang]

All is folly.

[The Hidalgo]

Easy to say.

[Wei Shan Yang]

All is connected, reliant on inter-dependence so no form of 'separateness' can be established. It seems to me you view yourself as separate. As having obtained something. Whatever that is you perceive, or any of us perceive, its still folly. Any idea of separateness, is folly. All is one, so no one can be apart from all. Folly is to perceive otherwise. Controlled Folly is to know there is nothing "you" can do to get beyond folly. Which is getting beyond it after all, by getting beyond any idea of "you". But a you is still required in relative existence. So its folly, the control is the knowledge of this.



from emptiness and objects Lex wrote in lead post:


Although Don Juan was able to convince Carlos that the Eagle was merely an image and that in actuality there was no Eagle, Carlos was still left with the idea that there was an energetic reality that was the source of these mysterious emanations an entity even, because even when stripped of the image of an eagle this source still had attributes according to Don Juan.



Now Don Juan has introduced Carlos to an energetic universe and he has tied this in Carlos’ mind to the attainment of “seeing”. So we see the result of this type of introduction when Carlos says, “He paused as if to measure the effect of his words. I told him that I agreed with his premise, because everything could be reduced to being a field of energy.” This is unfortunate because the world of material objects has merely been exchanged for a world, a supposedly more real world, of energetic objects.



This leaves us with the notion that the first truth about awareness will remain obscure to us unless we too are able to see objects as they really are that is to say as energetic realities. This does little to help us understand the nature of reality and the world of objects any objects, material, mental, energetic or otherwise.
If you believe Don Juan burned from within and left this world for an alternate reality, another layer of the onion, I assure you he will still have to deal with existence. Simply manipulating perceptions or exchanging one set of perceptions for another, ie; matter for energy does not help know the nature of reality!

[The Hidalgo]

It seems to me...
When you know fer sure, let me know.


I'm done with this particular folly.

[Wei Shan Yang]

Nothing is for sure. If you view yourself as separate it will pass.



You were done before you started, lol.

[Wei Shan Yang]

Perhaps bringing energetics into this is a bit unpleasant for some? Well, this is Zen forum, Buddhism, hence the reason for such discussion. In certain schools of Buddhism its objective is that all is transcended, all beliefs let go. So, in warrior terms, they are seen only as folly, which is all they are anyway.

[Wei Shan Yang]

My acts are sincere but they are only the acts of an actor because everything I do is controlled folly. Everything I do in regard to myself and my fellow men is folly, because nothing matters.

Certain things in your life matter to you because they're important; your acts are certainly important to you, but for me, not a single thing is important any longer, neither my acts nor the acts of any of my fellow men. I go on living though, because I have my will . Because I have tempered my will throughout my life until it's neat and wholesome and now it doesn't matter to me that nothing matters. My will controls the folly of my life.

Once a man learns to see he finds himself alone in the world with nothing but folly. Your acts, as well as the acts of your fellow men in general, appear to be important to you because you have learned to think they are important.

We learn to think about everything, and then we train our eyes to look as we think about the things we look at. We look at ourselves already thinking that we are important. And therefore we've got to feel important! But then when a man learns to see , he realizes that he can no longer think about the things he looks at, and if he cannot think about what he looks at everything becomes unimportant. Everything is equal and therefore unimportant.

We need to look with our eyes to laugh. When our eyes see , everything is so equal that nothing is funny. My laughter, as well as everything I do is real but it also is controlled folly because it is useless; it changes nothing and yet I still do it.~DJ

[Wei Shan Yang]

Hidalgo, you may see energy, but then you think about what you see, and apply that thought back to the world for a purpose, which is folly. Knowing that this is all anyone can do "here" is controlled folly. This is the awareness that we are all equal. And all seeming is dreaming.