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Hi Watergaze, hi moderators, hi all participators i know its been a while since my last visit here and i see here are some changes going on. Since i am deeply convinced that sorcerers bring order, i am concerned now that this site would be easily comprehensible. So why not to use a simple scheme to put all the section in coherent manner. My suggestion would to use a scheme already presented in the C.C. Book 'Tales of Power'. If you had read that book you should know it. I will present it here again.
The diagram in the ashes had two epicenters; one he called "reason," the other, "will." "Reason" was interconnected directly with a point he called "talking." Through "talking,"
"reason" was indirectly connected to three other points, "feeling," "dreaming" and "seeing." The other epicenter, "will," was directly connected to "feeling," "dreaming" and "seeing"; but only indirectly to "reason" and "talking." "These are eight points on the fibers of a luminous being. A sorcerer says, as you can see in the diagram, that a human being is, first of all, will, because will is directly connected to three points, feeling, dreaming and seeing; then next, a human being is reason. This is properly a center that is smaller than will; it is connected only with talking." "We may say that every one of us brings to the world eight points. Two of them, reason and talking, are known by everyone. Feeling is always vague but somehow familiar. But only in the world of sorcerers does one get fully acquainted with dreaming, seeing and will. And finally, at the outer edge of that world one encounters the other two. The eight points make the totality of oneself." I asked him again about the two mysterious remaining points. He showed me that they were connected only to "will" and that they were removed from "feeling," "dreaming" and "seeing, "and much more distant from "talking" and "reason."
He pointed with his finger to show that they were isolated from the rest and from each other. He touched my head and said that that was the center of "reason" and "talking". The tip of my sternum was the center of feeling. The area below the navel was will. Dreaming was on the right side against the ribs. Seeing on the left. He said that sometimes in some warriors seeing and dreaming were on the right side. Quotes from C.C. Book 'the tales of power'.
The other two are Tonal and Nagual. Tonal is right leg and Nagual is left leg.
My suggestion is that all the sections in this site's first page, all the tread and topics which you are moving could be related to the eight point diagram centers. For example with main sections:
*The Foreign installation - would be related to the center of ''reason''.
*Ixtlan Cafe, Introduction, Nagual forums Questions and Answers, New seers - related to the center of "talking".
*Path of heart - related to the center of "feeling". (A discussion about stimulating, controlling, overcoming, experiencing feeling enchanted attitudes. Many do not know that it could be done wonders from this center, it could be put most difficult installation or could be started most interesting goal. Could be discussed the distinction of petty feelings from clean powerful ones. How many petty feelings are presented in the movies, tv it is a travesty to be blind by them.)
*The arts of dreaming and stalking – related to he center of "dreaming".
*Mastering awareness – related to the center of ''seeing''.
*Carlos Castanedas: teachings of do Juan, Modern nagualism – related to the center of ''will''.
*The Tonal – related to ''tonal''.
*The Tales of Power, Oracle – related to the center of ''nagual''.
Many do not like this diagram because they are in question about most discussed chakra thing, they are missing where could fit the their sexual chakra.... just joking.
So serious what do you all moderators and participators think about this diagram order?
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Hi White Knight, good and interesting suggestion . I will try to see how it would work and if we can see it through.. we shall see how that works, but I have a few questions as to some of your meaning. You would suggest the sections would go in this order of succession, yes? But not have that it in their subtitle, just for it to be a kind of 'invisible' as in not on the index mentioned order, yes?
Next I would be interested why you put Oracle in nagual and not seeing. I could see it working in both ofc (and also put it in Nagual in the version I made at the bottom of the post, cause it goes well with/after Tales of Power. And both are sections very closely connected to wolf. I might even make it a sub-forum of Tales of Power as at this moment as the Oracle is not used much in his absence, will see..).
In the way the sections are generally put together i see the order you suggest as sensible and like that there is a little magic in such an order. Still, maybe you are not aware, that some sections, like Path of Heart are made for the different style of writing it provides in comparison to the rest of the site and is not distinguished by the topic/theme of discussion as much (as say the Foreign Installation section is), but by style of posting. So, the things you suggest could be discussed there are all nice, but whether on not this is taken up by members to discuss remains to be seen and cannot really be influenced by the mods (though the suggested topics are interesting enough to hope they will pop up somewhere hehe). Either way it is a section that will hopefully see people who listen to their heart..
Another things that pops up is that if we put Ixtlan Cafe, Introduction first that is fine, but putting under introduction the Support Forum is not something that is usually done. And is not all that sensible to put on top a rarely used section by the members who come here, but rather put there a section that would draw their attention with discussion options.
Then there are the invisible sections of the site, which ofc you couldnt work with in your post above.. but i guess those could just be at the end cause the public doesnt see them anyway hehe. Or they can be incorporated into the order of the scheme.
One section that is here and is invisible is Ravenfield (hopefully invisible only temporarily, but either way not accessible to the public), that one is in the dreamin (or could also be in the Nagual) of the scheme you put forth.
Then there is a section that might or might not show up after everything is done, it is called Oblivion, where threads were put for one reason or another. I am thinking of showing these publicly in a read only place. Where would you then put that one?
Then there is a section for Moderations, here I copy threads temporarily before i change them, edit, merge, split etc. And also a place where mods, as there are a few of us now, can talk in private about things concerning moderation. This I would put under Talk
For me, as maybe because I am the admin/mod atm, the support section is a place of balancing reason and feeling (not just keeping order but also working with people's wishes/feelings), with a seeing required here and there like now that we move stuff around i need a sort of mix of the three. Since i decided to start changing the sections, the night before I started I am dreaming about it too . But yea ok i totally get that it is in the talking section, cause that is what we do here, we talk about the site.
The support section is here for helping people, so although it works with reason to a big extent it is made from feeling, cause mods dont really need to be explaining stuff to themselves or asking people to behave in some fashion, they have buttons to go all dictator, so it is the heart that governs us and then reason . So, the section is for helping people, in that sense made for helping others understand and feel better here. The explanation and informing that we do (so, the talking) is to a large extent addressed to the feelings and heart of everyone and yes then also to reason. But, since we cant put the Support all the way on top or middle top with Talking of Reason or Feeling, then let us say that all in all it is about what is here on this site, something tangible in the Tonal, managing our sections, interactions etc. So, it will have to be squeezed with a closed eye into the Tonal section
Oh, and no way should we start the index page with Foreign Installation, that just seems wrong . It should start with either Ixtlan Cafe of Introduction. Hm.. sigh.. im not sure then if the scheme would work, we will need to adjust your proposed order of the scheme sections.
What do you say? Im not sure you mean the reason has to come before talking. Imo it makes sense to me to have talking before reason too , reversing the order of first having the thing that is in front of reason (as in how reason often is seen/manifests), constituents before sections.
version 1:
Talking - 'Ixtlan Cafe', 'Introduction', 'New seers' (& hidden mod section)
Reason - The Foreign installation
Will - 'Carlos Castanedas: Teachings of do Juan', 'Modern Nagualism'
Feeling - 'Path of Heart'
Seeing - 'Mastering Awareness'
Dreaming - 'The Arts of Stalking and Dreaming' (& Ravenfield)
Tonal - 'The Tonal' 'Nagual Forums - Questions and Answers'
Nagual - 'The Tales of Power', 'Oracle'
-not sure where to put Oblivion. I guess it would be at the very end representing Infinity (and as such could be seen as part of Nagual) lol.
version 2: - have to say i like this best, though maybe Reason should go before Will (but as is it makes more sense to me to first mention CC and then the FI)
Talking - 'Ixtlan Cafe', 'Introduction', 'New seers' (& hidden mod section)
Feeling - 'Path of Heart'
Will - 'Carlos Castanedas: Teachings of do Juan', 'Modern Nagualism'
Reason - The Foreign installation
Seeing - 'Mastering Awareness'
Dreaming - 'The Arts of Stalking and Dreaming' (& Ravenfield)
Tonal - 'The Tonal' 'Nagual Forums - Questions and Answers'
Nagual - 'The Tales of Power', 'Oracle'
(Infinity - Oblivion)
--- I hope this does not mess up your vision of the order (as presented in Tales of Power) too much, it still tries to keep the sections, just the order of them needs to be put more to our purposes of a discussion site (like having Introduction at the start and such things).
P.S. I will have to dust off Tales of Power and have a look at this again, I read it just once years ago. I do tell myself it is high time to read the books again as it has been quite a journey for me since then and the books would probs provide a totally different layer for me now, but for now i seem to have other stuff i need to do.. like here on the site
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The Arts of Stalking and Dreaming is a bit tricky. The Stalking Part goes well with Reason and is nicely linked to come before or after the Foreign Installation. The Dreaming Part is obviously in Dreaming section. I have to say i thought some while back about how we combine stalking and dreaming in that section. it surely has something to it, as often the two come together, but ofc they have merit when separated too.
Also it would be better to first put Nagual and then Tonal, so that at the end we have The Tonal and Support Section and not Tales of Power, which is a very interesting section with lots of good reading, and goes nicely after Mastering Awareness or even after The Arts of Stalking and Dreaming.
New Seers is also a section where each creator of their thread is kind of the king of the thread. In this sense it is made under a similar premise as is the Path of Heart section, in the sense that we hope people will listen to their heart to a big extent. Although New Seers is meant for the blog style of posting it is also there for people who want discussion under circumstances they can control (as in the past lots of threads went sideways due to other posters talking about other stuff). In this sense both sections could go under Feeling (i.e heart). But either way New Seers is still nice after Introduction, as the personal threads kind of also go nicely after introductions hehe. And yes surely can be put under Talking.
version 3
Talking - 'Ixtlan Cafe', 'Introduction', 'New Seers' (version1)
Feeling - 'Path of Heart', 'New Seers' (version2)
Will - 'Carlos Castanedas: Teachings of do Juan', 'Modern Nagualism'
Reason - The Foreign installation
Dreaming - 'The Arts of Stalking and Dreaming' (& Ravenfield)
Seeing - 'Mastering Awareness'
Nagual - 'The Tales of Power', 'Oracle'
Tonal - 'The Tonal' 'Nagual Forums - Questions and Answers'
I see this makes pairs of the sections.
Your suggested pairing I liked: 1. Reason and Talking 2. Feeling and Dreaming 3. Seeing and Will 4. Tonal and Nagual
but the pairing above is sensible too.
1. Talking and Feeling 2. Will and Reason 3. Dreaming and Seeing 4. Nagual and Tonal
best possible pairing imo:
1. Talking and Reason 2. Feeling and Seeing 3. Dreaming and Will 4. Tonal and Nagual
which would mean this order:
Talking - 'Ixtlan Cafe', 'Introduction', 'New Seers'
Reason - (The Art of Stalking,) The Foreign installation
Feeling - 'Path of Heart'
Seeing - 'Mastering Awareness'
Dreaming - 'The Art(s of Stalking and) Dreaming' (& Ravenfield)
Will - 'Carlos Castanedas: Teachings of do Juan', 'Modern Nagualism'
Nagual - 'The Tales of Power', 'Oracle'
Tonal - 'The Tonal' 'Nagual Forums - Questions and Answers'
-- of yes i also wonder why you put the CC section into Will rather than into Talking - As in talking about the books, our experiences, opinions, etc based on what we read in the book.
What would you understand as being good to put under Will? I can ofc see how CC section goes with Modern Nagualism and then how Modern Nagualism and CC is linked to Will in that sense. In my words I guess I would say it is about willing a change, or a different path.. impeccability, strong will etc.
-- some of the pairs i can see as fine even if they switch order, for example first Will then Dreaming (just like I put first Nagual and then Tonal, it makes also sense than Nagual would go after Dreaming). I can also see that different people might have a different opinion on where to put what.. (like i would understand if someone said Mastering Awareness is about Will and Modern Nagualism could go into Seeing cause it could be about what we see for the new lineages and CC's legacy). But either way I like that you brought this order of a scheme here.. we shall see where it leads , maybe people will have a look here and tell us what they think/feel about putting the sections in the order you (or I) proposed..
version 4
Talking - 'Ixtlan Cafe', 'Introduction', 'New Seers', 'Carlos Castanedas: Teachings of do Juan'
Reason - The Foreign installation
Feeling - 'Path of Heart'
Seeing - 'Mastering Awareness'
Dreaming - 'The Arts of Stalking and Dreaming' (& Ravenfield)
Will - 'Modern Nagualism'
Nagual - 'The Tales of Power', 'Oracle'
Tonal - 'The Tonal' 'Nagual Forums - Questions and Answers'
-- well, back to moving threads. letting this settle a bit and we shall see what we get . thnx for chiming in, surely an interesting thing you put here for consideration. Hope you will stick around long enough to see the end result, and nice to see you back at the site
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Hi White Knight, nice to see you back here! Those are great insights, I had not thought to order them as such, but reading it was interesting to explore meanings that way. Maybe it can be developed into a use for forum as WG is working on with you. Either way, cool reading, thanks!
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HI White Knight - thank you for your suggestions. They do seem practical. I am not sure if I want to stray to far from what NLW has already established. I think the forums are shaping up nicely now and I would like to see how this turns out. Also, some members are not die hard CC/DJ proponents. The way things are set now, we have a section for purely CC conversation. If things are not shaping up the way we intend, we could always consider your diagram of sections. It is really great that you are back and interested in the well being of this site. Thank you very much!
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Hi, thanks for the replays. I like to be in discussion. So let's discuss.
Lots of small questions, sorry that i unexplained fully, but still you get what i had in mind. To be clear im not sure how that scheme could be put in index page, maybe in background maybe invisible maybe in subtitles, lets see how it develops then should answer come by itself.
The term 'stalking' presented by C.C. is two fold, old seer and new seer style. Old seers style of stalking is in my comprehension to fix an AP at certain position. I wont go in details of new seer style so lets leave the term stalking as an action with purpose to fix an AP. Term Dreaming is made as a description of an action of moving an AP. But so could be understood that seeing is also moving and fixing AP. And feeling is also moving and fixing AP. I remember there was time when stalking and dreaming section was separated and later they were merged, suppose it hadnt worked out to be separated. So in my opinion section names are related to moving and fixing AP and should be left as it is Dreaming and Stalking, Heart as feeling, Mastering awareness as Seeing.
I am not sure what is the difference between purposes of 'New seers' and 'Path of Heart' sections, as you described I understand it is almost the same. I would like to suggest that the purpose of the section 'Path of Heart' could be on discussion because why to create a two separate sections for talking about same topics, maybe it could fit in to one. I understand that section for feeling is quite a big thing as the term 'feeling' is not so separated in any spiritual tradition, but many do not know what kind of power it is when being in control of feelings and emotions. My perception says that there is no dualism in physical body, what people search by putting attention to their heart is actually will, intent. If you get any outcome of feelings by putting your attention to your hear it means that you actually move AP to silent knowledge and then you get an answer from it. Any dualism I could describe only between physical body and energy body, between mind and will. Feelings, heart is not independent, they are manipulated no end.
Speaking about the center of will, sections 'Carlos Castanedas: Teachings of do Juan' and 'Modern Nagualism' are basically with the same purpose because it is a discussion about spiritual traditions. I wouldnt dare to put them under the center of talking because spiritual traditions teaches how to manage your energy, will, intent, awareness. You can describe it how you want but it is clear to everyone that it is not merely a teachings how to talk, speak.
It is true the section about Questions and Answers dosent fit on top of the site, but there it is merely talkings i dont see any power in it and Tonal is powerful. Still my recommendation to place it under talking, or maybe even in sub-forum of 'Introduction'. I suppose 'Moderations' section is also 'talking' or simply logs. I leave the place for both to be questionable.
It possible to switch place between talking and reason if it wont go otherwise.
As it is said in the book that 'will' is directly connected to 'feeling', 'dreaming', 'seeing' and 'nagual' and 'tonal', so 'will' should be held between these sections.
Switching 'tonal' with 'nagual' is also normal they are lets say parallel.
Talking - 'Ixtlan Cafe', 'Introduction','Nagual Forums - Questions and Answers', 'New Seers'
Reason - 'The Foreign installation'
Feeling - 'Path of Heart'
Seeing - 'Mastering Awareness'
Dreaming - 'The Arts of Stalking and Dreaming' (& Ravenfield)
Will - 'Carlos Castanedas: Teachings of do Juan', 'Modern Nagualism'
Nagual - 'The Tales of Power', 'Oracle'
Tonal - 'The Tonal'
Hope i made it simple...
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"I am not sure what is the difference between purposes of 'New seers' and 'Path of Heart' sections, as you described I understand it is almost the same. I would like to suggest that the purpose of the section 'Path of Heart' could be on discussion because why to create a two separate sections for talking about same topics, maybe it could fit in to one. I understand that section for feeling is quite a big thing as the term 'feeling' is not so separated in any spiritual tradition, but many do not know what kind of power it is when being in control of feelings and emotions. My perception says that there is no dualism in physical body, what people search by putting attention to their heart is actually will, intent. If you get any outcome of feelings by putting your attention to your hear it means that you actually move AP to silent knowledge and then you get an answer from it. Any dualism I could describe only between physical body and energy body, between mind and will. Feelings, heart is not independent, they are manipulated no end."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------The reason these two sections were formed was not due to the content of each thread. They are being provided to allow members different options for posting styles, and the ability to edit and delete....since edit and delete are not going to be part of the other threads. Here is what WG wrote as to the purpose of these threads. So it is about personal freedom in posting and level of moderation.
"Path of Heart:here is a section where you will not have much moderation (hence the name, you will listen to your heart about how/what to post). Any topic is welcome. You will have edit and delete buttons.- it is still to be decided if it will be a zone left to itself or if the usual www decorum should be kept.
New Seers:here you can do even the large fonts and the caps in your thread. I would ask however that you not use ALL CAPS in the Title of the thread, because this might show up in the featured threads on the index, plus it is still somewhat strange to make some threads larger than others in the index of the New Seers section. Dont take attention of people by using Caps for this reason. In this part of the site you are the Master of your thread (though in extreme case a moderator might have to do something that the owner did not ask for, im hoping such will never be needed). Other users have to be aware that where they post as a reply is the territory of the person who created the thread. "
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Hi delawaredan, i understand now the technical distinction between the these two, still thinking that they have the same purpose in terms of content.
delawaredan wrote: Also, some members are not die hard CC/DJ proponents. The way things are set now, we have a section for purely CC conversation. If things are not shaping up the way we intend, we could always consider your diagram of sections.
Yea, just keep in mind that this topic is open if you like this proposition. The way I use C.C. suggestions is that of way sorcery/spirituality terminology had been presented. It is revolutionary to me how simple, mind blowing things, in those books were described.
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White Knight you have now a 100 posts count, like an anniversary hehe.
[well now that I am done writing this post and clicked preview to read it before posting, I see you replied to dan, but I am going to leave my post reply as it is, even though you say you understand the technical distinction between the two sections now, hope you dont mind]
We are trying here a bit of a different approach to the sections. It is not just about theme or topic. This is also why i like your scheme, as it can be seen as going beyond the themes/topics that are in the sections. For example Feeling does not mean the threads have to just be about feelings and emotions, but also what type of posting style we would like to foster - people not jump all over themselves, be considerate of threads even without moderation etc.
There are planned two sections which will provide edit and delete but a varied degree of control over user's threads and posts. Path of Heart will still be moderated to some extent, but New Seers will not be moderated by us, but each thread by their individual creator (the mod will just be their helper in doing that). So, in a nut shell, while the site will not provide edit and delete in general (because undisciplined posters mess up the thread's continuity), Path of Heart will give you these buttons. New Seers is about users creating their personal threads, threads whose intent they can foster and weed out unwanted plants if needed. In that sense it is going to be something new, and it is going to be a sort of test ground. Some members here are in constant battles and it is clogging up threads elsewhere. Others are having a conversation with themselves . Moderation will be tighter in some places and looser in other places. The users can choose which place they would like to make their thread in depending on what their wish for the thread is and what they are comfortable with.
In either case path of Heart is for discussion, while New Seers is for more blog style posting (with discussion also welcome, but depending on the creator of each thread how they decide to go about it).
What concerns feelings, some discussion about feelings is in The Art of Stalking and some in the FI section, it is more about self pity and that type of the spectrum, but stalking emotions is very important for us on the whole scale.
I really like your focus on feelings here, I have to say to me this is very important. Much more important than say thinking, talking etc about the FI. I learn loads by understanding and can working with emotions/feeling states.
I dont understand what you meant to say here: White Knight wrote:Feelings, heart is not independent, they are manipulated no end.
What concerns Arts of S&D I see the merit of having it together and also of having it apart . At this moment I am not planning to or thinking of splitting the section, but at this moment i am also very open to whatever shows up as a good path in changing the layout and intents of threads.
Yes, i understand how sections CC and Modern Nagualism have the same direction in the sense of will, how in theory that is so. But what i wanted to foreground is that CC section that we have here on the site (so in praxis as it is here) talks more about talking about the books. What do you think about this, how did you understand that, here is an interview with X etc. The actual issues of the path are in sections as FI, Arts of S&D etc. It focuses a lot on the persona of Carlos Castaneda (witches, DJ..) and what people's opinions are of him (them) and of putting together material connected to them. That is mostly what i see as the topics that are made use of there.
In this sense I do not mean to say that CC taught us how to talk, but that talk is what is mostly done in that section (not personal experiences of the issues, or people's seeing or understanding of his concepts from experience), but putting together stuff said elsewhere or saying opinions. Whereas the actual aspects of the teachings are elsewhere on the site. Hope I explain that clearly now
Modern Nagualism, in contrast is the struggle of us Modern Naguals, how to become New Seers, what we encounter on the path, etc. In this sense I totally see it as connected to will. And the threads you find in Modern Nagualism are pretty different from ones you find in CC section, there you might see why i say one is Will the other more Talk . Because one is for us about Will, us becoming New Seers (our Knock of Spirit), the other is Talk about this CC persona and his teacher DJ and his party warriors etc. The biggest parts of his teaching and our struggle with understanding that and incorporating it into our lives and learning from it is in the other sections of the site.
The Support Section is Talk, that much is clear, made for communication with the members. However, it just cant go on top. And the thing i was saying it is for me (heart, seeing...) is the case for me and maybe the other moderators. But i could also put it in Tonal, because tonal is this side of reality. And if we look at the site as in parts of it represent different sides, the Support section is surely the tonal side (nagual would be for example mastering awareness, dreaming. tonal would be for example introduction, FI, support, the tonal). You say Tonal is powerful, yea, but look at 'The Tonal' section, to me that is one of the least interesting parts of the site, full of unexplained videos, most of that section is music videos (ofc i leave it to others that it can be a powerful section to them). For me, the 'real' tonal stuff is dispersed around the other sections.
(edit: typos)
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White Knight wrote:
Hi delawaredan, i understand now the technical distinction between the these two, still thinking that they have the same purpose in terms of content.
delawaredan wrote:
Also, some members are not die hard CC/DJ proponents. The way things are set now, we have a section for purely CC conversation. If things are not shaping up the way we intend, we could always consider your diagram of sections.
Yea, just keep in mind that this topic is open if you like this proposition. The way I use C.C. suggestions is that of way sorcery/spirituality terminology had been presented. It is revolutionary to me how simple, mind blowing things, in those books were described.It blew (and continues to blow) my mind too buddy.....
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Mastering Awareness is - Sorcery, the Will.
Seeing is the Oracle - but agree Oracle is the Nagual too.
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delawaredan wrote:
It blew (and continues to blow) my mind too buddy.....
It is nice to hear you are in the path of knowledge.
watergaze wrote:
I dont understand what you meant to say here:
White Knight wrote:
White Knight wrote:Feelings, heart is not independent, they are manipulated no end.
Its quite a hard thing to understand feelings, but i know you will figure out how it goes as you said you like to work with them. i will add this to what i said: feeling is a tool to gain momentum.
Yea, Watergaze, you seems understand what i had in mind by starting this discussion, i know this idea had to be lived through so will see what destiny it will get. i got now a better view of how this site a projected, thanks to your replay. But you know only in this treads discussion i understood that 'New seers' tend to be with self moderated topics, yea i could understand that in the process by being around, but maybe it would be better to write in 'New Seers' something like that: Moderate your own tread here. As for new comers and also me long time without visit is quite difficult to understand from the first view what kind of changes are going on.
And for the show i would like to remind a link i had posted some years before in Tonal section im not sure if you had seen that video, i had seen more strange videos but they wasnt in english language so it would be difficult to find and present here... enjoy.... http://sorcery.yuku.com/topic/2856/Mast ... his-energy
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White Knight,
yea you are right that it is somewhat confusing at the site right now. Maybe I should make a clearer announcement and feature that instead of the Admin/Mod log (casue Admin/Mod log has quite a few posts in it). I thought about that, but hmm i mean I have that Transformers section there on index with a subtitle which makes it clear that things are going to be moved around and such (and you understood that too without a problem that we are changing stuff around, you just didnt read up on the stuff of what the plans are, cause you didnt find it heh sry, but, you know, that is ok cause its not like we expect new comers to know the plans of the sections and all, we just need them to understand the site is in slight shifting mode and) One dont have to be a wizard to figure out it is shifting/moving/change time around here, shaking things up and having a direction and plan, but hey ultimately being open and lets see where things want to turn. (Coming at the thing with a plan but not pushing the plan at the expense of spirit and listening to its guidance)
I hope people can take it for some 2-3 weeks and after I am done what I am surely going to do is make a post in the Introduction section which will (re-)introduce the site to everyone and the sections too. At this point I am finding out myself what the sections are and are going to be about for real (i only have an idea of what could work), so I cant really introduce it at this point, or I could but it wouldnt be as good as what i could write afterwards..
Meanwhile I am going to grok a bit on the topic of what to do about feelings... Like I said, as is we have them in the Stalking section and in FI section. I am not sure we should make another section for it, for now it seems we got sections enough .. hm.. but yea, gonna keep this on my map and see what happens .
As always, suggestions are welcome.
P.S. The shifting around of the sections is trying out stuff, same as changing font style and all that, to see how it looks...
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watergaze wrote:
Meanwhile I am going to grok a bit on the topic of what to do about feelings... Like I said, as is we have them in the Stalking section and in FI section. I am not sure we should make another section for it, for now it seems we got sections enough .. hm.. but yea, gonna keep this on my map and see what happens .
As always, suggestions are welcome.
Seems true that enough sections. There is not so much suggestions how to solve it. For example: to make a subforum(easy), merge with 'path of heart' or other section(medium) redeploy existing forums to get more space(very hard) or to win a lottery of original ideas, thus get a solution(hard) hehe
You know I became intrigued how you expect to be guided by spirit. I would like to ask realllly serious question. Are you in direct contact with spirit through Tonal tool(cards and millions similar)? Or to be manifested through seeing and dreaming, maybe through feeling of being ruthless?
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subforums dont look too good on the index page, they kinda screw up the spacing, put a big space under the subsection scroller, but yea its a cosmetic issue lol, but Id still like the site to look nice. As it was just before i moved stuff today (eer now at time of posting this was 4-5days ago) i saw that when Transformers, Modern Nagualism and Tales of Power each had a subsection that the main index page looked pretty messy.. Which is why i changed it a bit.
We are still looking at the Path of Heart section, as it is still not set in stone how we shall go about it (so to speak).
There is one thing that I realized as I put attention on emotion/feelings for the purposes of this thread/site.. To talk about feelings, to actually analyse them as some did in The Arts of S&D one needs to be very open. more open than this site lately allowed on its public part. If I would do this here I would want a place that is safe and many would probably choose somewhere where they can delete it or edit out some parts if they choose so later. In that sense we could make Path of Heart be that section.. but as it seems now Path of Heart may become the section with more disagreements and venting, so that kinda doesnt go together all that well. New Seers section is the safest place for the creator of the thread, i am putting personal and recap threads there atm.
I found in my experience that emotions are rewarding to track in our fight with the foreign mind (ofc they are linked to thoughts too..). Atm I am focusing on moving stuff so this I just came to write cause i am still focused mainly on the 2 new planned sections. And I do get it how Path of Heart is basically welcoming what you suggest and would be the perfect place for it . So yea.. sigh..
White Knight wrote:You know I became intrigued how you expect to be guided by spirit. I would like to ask realllly serious question. Are you in direct contact with spirit through Tonal tool(cards and millions similar)? Or to be manifested through seeing and dreaming, maybe through feeling of being ruthless?
I dont expect, I ask and try to be as attentive as i can to catch what may be offered me as help/guidance.
Either way it is not an exact science (at least not to me at this point in my life, i dont know if it can be hehe). I surely didnt use cards for this, though it is a fine suggestion to use cards/stones etc. I am not sure now if youre asking me in general or specifically about this site, but since here is the example I will tell you about that.
answers/guidance can show up in all sorts of ways. For example by omens, which are identifiable by a specific feeling or density or how to call it a change that happens when they happen that gets your attention (you probably know what i mean..). Had a few of those..
Then I ofc work with dreaming. The night before I started moving this changing (moving of threads, creating new sections etc) I had a dream where I was doing it. This got me to finally start something I have been looking to do for a few months now. That day it felt it is the right time. After moving a bit and feeling into the site and stuff, 2 days after the dream i just mentioned, I had another dream. In it I saw behind the hood of this place (and I dont mean the Admin panel ). I called it the living core of this site let itself be accessed and felt. It is alive, shifting/changing slightly. My feeling is that it showed itself to us (it was not just me in the dream) so that we can create the vision/form of the site in a better way thnx to seeing its more hidden parts/ accessing its feeling. I have been connecting to this feeling of the site's presence/consciousness while working here. In general feeling it and taking that feeling into this reality has helped guide me to an important extent. Looking at it i could take in a certain direction that is needed for this place. Hope that makes sense . I could go into more detail about what I saw, but i am still processing it and even to write this much has taken me a few days as I was not sure what i should and should not say about it.
We witnessed things open up for our eyes/perception. I realize I am an admin/mod for not just the people. The sites also needs something and by helping her (felt to me like a female presence) we help everyone coming here.
Feeling the core, feeling what was shown in the dream was most helpful to me. I understood a little through feeling it, but what i am surely gonna do my best at is keeping that feeling alive while i look at everything that is being done here to see how it corresponds and fits, what it does, how this 'feeling' feels about it. Now, this dream did not tell me what sections to make or in what order (though in dreams before i even got this job i saw hidden sections of this site in dreams that I would one day like to see happen in tonal too). But what is important is to be natural to the site, go with the natural current of this place. Do things that are ok for the site. The site is a hm not sure how to call it, an entity of its own. Power spots are like that and this place has had powerful people coming here for over a decade, it is natural that it also evolves.
So that was about dreaming..
Most importantly, I work with PEOPLE . People are as much messengers of spirit as are animals or occurrences (synchronicities, happenings, omens). Like say you came here out of the blue just when we needed you to say something you said something and put my/our attention on an aspect that I would not have thought of until I would be done moving stuff (or not even then). But looking at stuff after your post here gives me a whole new dimension to witness as I am moving the threads, which is helpful to me, cause as I am going over each thread I am moving I can also look now at the... is it talk, reason, feeling, seeing, dreaming, will.. etc and which section incorporates what best. This is also why i could explain to you how it is in our CC section as opposed to our Modern Nagualism or Mastering Awareness section (which I hope was understandable).
working at being open and listening after asking and/or after not asking. I have stuff i am not clear on atm, but some stuff i was not clear on yesterday has already cleared up today, so yay . Seeing what is transpiring in these transition days is helping me be clearer on how to go at some things.
There are tonal tools I use (such as drum, rattle..), though im not sure i should call them tonal tools as they are (among other things) a means to get me in clearer contact with guiding spirits if i need that, but i have not used this to ask about the site stuff, at least not so far, but i am going to incorporate this helpful tools at one point, which i have seen ahead for a few days now.
I know you asked about my personal contact with spirit for your reasons, but i would like to add to what i said here that it is important that (apart from trying to be as attentive to these above mentioned 'things', beings and occurrences, as I can) I have people i can talk to and consult things with and i can listen to other opinions and that is most helpful. Thnx to the mods here (and their link to spirit and their spirit helpers) , and thnx to the support, feedback and suggestions from the people who come to this site . The people's support for this site is important (it influences not just this side of reality), and is helpful for any person seeking to also help this place and make it better for its current and future members.
(sry for delayed response, had this message ready like 3 days ago but i wanted to reread it and didnt find time for that until now. the stuff i said i was not clear on at that moment of writing has been cleared up in the next day or two as well )
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The question was very tricky, im glad you made a replay, The Spirit cannot be tangible logically in either centers like dreaming, seeing or feeling, even tonal tool can bring in connection any kind of average spirits. It is true, you went directly to describe your recent experiences and that's all about infinity spirit, it can only be experienced. Through bunch of experiences with explanations it can be recognized.
Seems in your few described dreams someone powerful enough had channeled/pulled you in dreams that you would get guidance. it is like being in contact with intent/spirit through someones else direct connection, kind of mystery, but i wont going to explain in details what i had said here...
And it will never be known what kind of directions people get by coming over here as it is like magical ancient place with certain mood and knowledge in it. Many people can me directed by spirit unconsciously especially here, so it is an art to recognize and listen to smart offers....
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White Knight wrote:Seems in your few described dreams someone powerful enough had channeled/pulled you in dreams that you would get guidance. it is like being in contact with intent/spirit through someones else direct connection, kind of mystery, but i wont going to explain in details what i had said here...
looks like you got quite a bit of what i was saying (even though i did not say it), which im glad for .
without going into explaining of details heh i can tell you that i realized that someone of female presence helped me be more aware of and more aware as i was looking at the core of the site (helped draw and lock my attention to it).
the female presence was like winding curling itself around the core. my attention focused better at that point thnx to the other presence. in a segment before i have seen the core without the presence and it was different of course and not as much energy/consciousness and so it was harder to remember/get a feel for it. But when the female presence came into the picture later on it was pretty powerful to witness/look at/take in.
I prefer not to describe the energies because without some direct experience of similar things i would not know how to interpret it/go about making sense of it and i am glad i have some background to draw on, which was of help in my processing of this experience.
Btw, concerning the order of the sections, it will still be a bit of time before we are at that stage.. but we are a big step closer to it now. Thnx for chiming in on the remaking of this place!
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So far this is how I put it:
talk - Ixtlan Cafe (chat), Introduction, Nagual Forums - Support Section, Carlos Castaneda's: Teachings of Don Juan
reason - The Foreign Installation
feeling - Path of Heart
seeing - The New Seers
will - Modern Nagualism, Mastering Awareness
dreaming - The Arts of Stalking & Dreaming
nagual - Tales of Power, Oracle
tonal - The Tonal, Exploring
Im surprised it actually worked out like this. I can explain some of the choices. I put the Support Section on top as was suggested, will try this out. What this ordering does is put the important parts in the middle. CC section I already explained i see as a talking section about the books and persona's from the books. next thing that is different from what we mentioned above is New Seers in seeing section. Well, at least the name fits ... but really this is a personal section and presents our point of view, our take on stuff - so in a sense presents the world through our eyes, how we see things/the world. Modern Nagualism and Mastering Awareness is in will, as explained/mentioned in posts above. Oracle is in nagual, as explained/mentioned above.
Exploring that was a bit tricky, i put it in tonal cause i want it at the end, but it is also stuff that we gather from other systems, other parts of the world, so i hope that can pass to be in that section heh.
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Great job, WG! I think everything is coming together beautifully
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Well, you surprised me, i didnt expect any results so fast, as in previous post said that it is far away from suggested order. And now here it is, the sequential result. For me it looks acceptable that support section almost at top, worth to try like this. Ahh and 'New seers" at least the name fits the topic, so nothing to comment here, just smiling... My suggestion would be to switch places for two sections, as in the scheme it is said that 'will' is directly connected to dreaming, seeing, feeling and also directly to nagual, tonal, so it would be more accurate if 'Modern nagualism' could exchange place with 'The arts of dreaming and stalking', then dreaming, seeing, feeling would go together and in the middle would go 'will' and later the most mysterious two. In fact if putting sections in this order an interesting figure could be penetrated and associated with incredible thing, the human body. Hehe
Im sorry my drear, that I need to say to you this, but I sense infinity’s spirit looming over you, it will certainly have an effect on your personal life. What I have seen in my dare living years is that probably your current life must go to an end. There will be crossing bridge to the place where is no pity. Extreme discipline should come all over you actions whatever habit it is or eating or cleaning or going somewhere, especially on making decisions as the death presence will be near. In due years your ass will be smoked out but without breaking your soft body. Somebody will kick your ass in order to give momentum, as it is how it works with woman, they must get a kick to enter impeccability.
The act of seeing is not a plain eye view whatever it is dealt with signs or Tonal tool, there must be certainly eyes involved but what is most important, the act of seeing must be confirmed from within it is the depth of emanations being suddenly energized to give you another perception within. My advise would be to start digging your grave and get inside to relax and store some energy. Of course, it is not possible to be ready for that, nobody have ever been ready, usual reaction is that you will curse some persons who had pulled you out of your comfortable life. Your stalker inducted personality is quite soft and responsible, so I could predict that there will be normal level of pressure be used because of responsibility. Yeah living in a democratic world you have to have a choice of making a decision, so you have to choose whether to accept to be infinitys wife dutifully or let the power hunt you down by tricky trap. So what would you say? What your intended word would be?
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It is a result but some things are still on the move at the site, so it is not a total final view of how it is going to be, but the order of the sections i gave was made in anticipation of the options I am still looking at that might come to be...
What you suggest I thought of before, i will tell you why i decided not to do that.. and i even tried it again to have another look. The Arts of S&D are just so long a name that it looks weird to me visually when Path of Heart and The New Seers are of too similar in length
Order 1= (what you propose) switching Arts of S&D and Modern Nagualism
Ixtlan Cafe
Introductions
NAGUAL FORUMS - Support Section
Carlos Castaneda's: The Teachings of Don Juan
The Foreign Installation
Path of Heart
The New Seers
The Arts of Stalking and Dreaming
Mastering Awareness
Modern Nagualism
Tales of Power
The Tonal
Exploring
Oblivion
Hm, actually it looks better here than when I put it on the general index. Maybe I can keep it up for you one day to look at hehe .
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Order 2 = what we have now - hourglass:
Ixtlan Cafe
Introductions
NAGUAL FORUMS - Support Section
Carlos Castaneda's: The Teachings of Don Juan
The Foreign Installation
Path of Heart
The New Seers
Modern Nagualism
Mastering Awareness
The Arts of Stalking and Dreaming
Tales of Power
The Tonal
Exploring
OblivionYou may see that Order 2 is easier on the eye, has an hourglass scheme. It looks very balanced to my eye. What more I am still contemplating a sub section in Arts of S&D for analysing and working with feelings ('Feeling Map'). (+ contemplating a section in The Tonal.) What that would do is make a space between the sections.. and that really looks best with this Order 2 Hourglass scheme. The index then would look like this
Order 2 + Subforums: Order 2 = what we have now - hourglass:
Ixtlan Cafe
Introductions
NAGUAL FORUMS - Support Section
Carlos Castaneda's: The Teachings of Don Juan
The Foreign Installation
Path of Heart
The New Seers
Modern Nagualism
Mastering AwarenessThe Arts of Stalking and Dreaming
SubforumsTales of Power
SubforumsThe Tonal
SubforumsExploring
SubforumsOblivion
Because of these Subforums it seems best to have this order.
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Order 1 + subforums
Ixtlan Cafe
Introductions
NAGUAL FORUMS - Support Section
Carlos Castaneda's: The Teachings of Don Juan
The Foreign Installation
Path of Heart
The New SeersThe Arts of Stalking and DreamingSubforumsMastering Awareness
Modern Nagualism
Tales of Power
SubforumsThe Tonal
SubforumsExploring
SubforumsOblivion
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I wonder at what you said about the human body. I would love that to come forth on the site, but Im not sure I see it. In my understanding reason should then be above talking.. cause the only way i understand it is reason=mind, talking=throat, feeling=heart, seeing - no clue (but well this system would put it between heart and the will stomach area, so that gives solar. actually seeing would seem to be associated with 3rd eye, so then seeing should be before talking), will-stomach (have no clue what i would call that precise part i associate it with so just generally stomach), dreaming=womb.
Heh, so, you see, id like you to explain what you mean with your human body comment cause id like to understand it .
If I look at it graphically here in this post I could kinda see it as human too hehe.
------
After i read the other part of your post i felt relieved. might sound strange but that is my reply. i could say more but its not like we are getting personal here . Nothing you say is news to me, but it is different when you read something on outside. I am heading for change that is needed to get more in line with spirit (either i will make the change myself one way, for that discipline is a major issue, or it will be forced upon me in another way) and your seeing of that seems fitting to me. In a sense i should not feel relieved but well.. i know why i would feel like that .
what do you mean by 'start digging a grave'? Do you mean like in the books dig a hole and have someone 'bury' you there?
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Nice examples by showing the order. I get your idea because of these subforums. By the way speaking about contemplating subforum in Tonal section, my mind instantly associated to some posts few years ago when there where some wishes about vulgarity, hope my associations are only for a joke.hehe.
What I mean by saying about human body, it was just the graphical view of the sections. Well, the term 3rd eye is a bit overrated because I couldnt find anywhere that explains fully what it is, so later through seeing and seeking knowledge I found that behind term 3rd eye stands negative energetic fact. Since I prefer to talk better about positive things I leave it behind and concentrate by talking about Castanedas term 'seeing from inner silence' or simply 'seeing' which is different then 3rd eye. It is a move of AP to the left which is going inside the luminous sphere by energizing dormant emanations. So seeing is associated with left side of ribs and left hand. Dreaming for me is right ribs and right hand, as I cannot test fully the power of the wombs.
Yeah, reason should be above talking but knowing that you felt that this site is like female presence and knowing the society’s jokes that females first talk and later think it can go and otherwise: first talking later thinking. Just joking no offense to anybody! My vote was that dreaming would go on top of modern nagualism simply because of the logic of the scheme in first post that will is in the middle between tonal,nagual and feeling,dreaming,seeing. But now that subforum in Arts of D&S changes the view, so im not sure if there is possible to do what I suggested, because your preferred order looks better indeed.
To get in line with spirits designs by waiting to be forced into impeccability is quite optimistic, as it freaks me out even only by speculating what kind of trouble these changes could bring. Preferred style to get into impeccability is by unbending intent, by struggling on your own to be detached. It would be like a scream to power that you are ready to success. Strong struggle could put you in front line of other competitors. So my advice to start digging a grave in fact is to start ultimate detachment. I do not mean to throw out everything and live like in stone age. How would do your manicure then, with a stones, I dont think so. I mean to let go all addictions, I mean to be detached all over your environment. If you cannot detach in your place, you can try that exercise mentioned in book by being buried in hole with leaves, as it would show what your most addictions are. So yeah, you have to wait for a sign to start your impeccability. Or of course you can wait for a cold fury going on your spine and feeling the presence of the ghost who screams to claim you soul. It is your democratic choice, hehe.
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I really enjoyed reading your reply, had a good laugh . thnx!
the subsection in The Tonal that im thinking of would be something similar topic wise, but the threads expressing something from the poster, not just the quote or video or link, but actual words/expressing ideas/reasons for posting/reactions/interpretation/further work on the subject of the link/pic/video. Looking behind/at/into the stuff that one links, embeds, etc. Kind of + one more step (than is usually seen in The Tonal threads).
more creative writing/art from members and move there creative things from members from the general tonal into the subsection too. I might see/ask if it would be good to make lead/reply options only to members who want to participate (the rest just read or not)... but hm it just occurred to me that what would work is to make threads normally in The Tonal and then move a thread that would 'qualify' to the subsection.
also sorceric/shamanic look at the function/uses of art, stories, etc.
oooor something like that
A bit after i replied to you last time I remember that you associated body parts with the sections, like dreaming with right ribs... Yea, will have to re-read them books..
What is the negative associated with 3rd eye? (I dont really use that concept either, not because i dont like it, i just dont have experiences like some say about 3rd eye throbbing or such. It hit me as i was already writing the next paragraph in my reply, that omg how could i forget there is a 3rd eye concept linked to seeing.. i had to go back and add that sentence into the bracket and felt like a big noob haha, but now Im thinking it was because you dont like the concept haha. good to have a metaphysical excuse ).
If we were to represent the feminine nature of the site in the order of the sections it should be talk, feeling, seeing, dreaming, reason, will
Im glad you agree with the current scheme of the sections, good co-work hehe
-------White Knight wrote:To get in line with spirits designs by waiting to be forced into impeccability is quite optimistic, as it freaks me out even only by speculating what kind of trouble these changes could bring. Preferred style to get into impeccability is by unbending intent, by struggling on your own to be detached. well, just in your previous post you say "...as it is how it works with woman, they must get a kick to enter impeccability."
it is not that i want to be kicked, but it is kinda good to know that there is the possibility of being kicked, sometimes (just sometimes) a kick is better than nothing...
So my advice to start digging a grave in fact is to start ultimate detachment. ... I mean to let go all addictions, I mean to be detached all over your environment. If you cannot detach in your place, you can try that exercise mentioned in book by being buried in hole with leaves, as it would show what your most addictions are.
this and the living in trees was among the top things i drooled over from the books . I, however, do not live in a good climate for this. digging a hole for a flower is hard work around here (but i guess could be done with hard work a few hours for a week or so), but its raining here all the time + im very sensitive to cold. it will need some major planning hehe...
Why cant the same test of detachment be made while lying in bed? I take the lying in earth as a healing, not about seeing attachments/addictions (though sure that is something one can find out while lying in earth for a while) and possibly it is part of the healing to let go... hm...
So yeah, you have to wait for a sign to start your impeccability. few hours after i read this i got a present (it came with a card that said):
Or of course you can wait for a cold fury going on your spine and feeling the presence of the ghost who screams to claim you soul.
(btw youre welcome to write a short terrifying story for the new subsection.. it will be called 'Story Time')
It is your democratic choice, hehe.
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