Immortality

[Nagual LoneWolf]

The power of universe and time grows while man weakens. As a man weakens he begins to see his death on the face of others. Only a fool believes he will live
forever. Any here believe life is eternal?

[seeitall]

I hope not, especially this reincarnation thing.


What's worse ? to die tomorrow or to live forever ?

[Hawkeye Crow]

I used to wish I could live forever to discover all the wonders of the Earth , so much of which is being destroyed today. I find a lot of limits to my
frontiers these days. I also wish I had a million $$$$.






I've read some interesting Sci-FI about immortals who become decadent. And then , there's Herbert's 'Dune' series.




The description of immortality in the New Testament describes an inorganic existence. Energy returns to energy is my understanding ; therein I might find
some possibility of reincarnation , if I don't mind being an asteroid circling some distant star. But , all individual organic life fades away , new
forms take our place. To seek immortality as some do is probably an error.

[Nagual LoneWolf]

They say if a man could live forever , he would go insane. Somehow I believe that to be true unless he could do it under a different set of rules. Different
stimuli and way of living. A new world to continue in.

[Hawkeye Crow]

Watching this documentary. The man wrote some eccelent verse on Death. Reminds me of the great American poets like Emerson . Pound.

[molleighmarie]

not forever, no. However there are new advances being made in science, that could have man living for a few thousand years or so, that is if no accidents
occurred to end their life sooner. Nothing is forever. Our sun has what 5billion years left is all....

[Mornings Son]

Life as LifeForce is eternal




life of lifeForms end. Birth and Death.




I believe that 'I', the body and the ego die, but the Buddha Nature 'lives' on

[Bob May]

Ecclesiastes 12





"..Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt
say, I have no pleasure in them;



While the sun, or the light, or the moon, or the stars, be not darkened, nor the clouds return after the rain:



In the day when the keepers of the house shall tremble, and the strong men shall bow themselves, and the grinders cease because
they are few, and those that look out of the windows be darkened,



And the doors shall be shut in the streets, when the sound of the grinding is low, and he shall rise up at the voice of the bird,
and all the daughters of music shall be brought low;



Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the
grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:



Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at
the cistern.



Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it..."



1.Whether the spirit of man continues is not the issue. Spirit does continue. A drop of water back into the sea.




2.It is the "soul" that has always been the issue. That is what we know as us. That is not so certain.




3.But as far as life in the physical body goes, that of course will not last and I look forward to the rest.




Body, soul and spirit. Three different answers to the same question.

[seeitall]

Mornings Son wrote:

Life as LifeForce is eternal




life of lifeForms end. Birth and Death.




I believe that 'I', the body and the ego die, but the Buddha Nature 'lives' on



when your body dies, the atoms that your body was made of do not die. they stay pretty much the same.


does this make your body more or less immortal , when matter continues to exist ?


I don't get your reasoning MS & Bob. Same goes with the spirit. it continues, but you're gone.

[Mornings Son]

Seeitall


How is life without body and ego? I say it is hard to express reasonable...


I intent to experience Life beyond body and mind. For now its just my belief

[Hawkeye Crow]

I have heard , according to physicists , that the material from the beginning of creation , if there is such a thing , still exists , and may even be within
any of us. Well , energy can be a particle , and I am not so sure there was ever a beginning anymore , ala Castaneda's New Syntax. What goes around ,
comes around , eh?






Bob May : some theologists believe that the term " soul " simply means the individual being , in the flesh , and not Spirit. Semantics means a lot
, that is, not the Word itself , but its Context and Usage in culture. Watch out for the Syntax!

[Bob May]

seeitall wrote:


Mornings Son wrote:

Life as LifeForce is eternal




life of lifeForms end. Birth and Death.




I believe that 'I', the body and the ego die, but the Buddha Nature 'lives' on




when your body dies, the atoms that your body was made of do not die. they stay pretty much the same.


does this make your body more or less immortal , when matter continues to exist ?


I don't get your reasoning MS & Bob. Same goes with the spirit. it continues, but you're gone.











Hi seeitall,






"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it..."



This quote from Ecclesiastes seems to agree with what you just wrote.


The "dust" is the atoms or molecules, particles of matter, which only change form. The spirit of man goes back into the One Spirit.


But what of the soul? That is where the fear comes from. Everyone dies, but then what?




Do we find ourselves in another place? Is it a better place? Do we cease to "Be" altogether?






1.Whether the spirit of man continues is not the issue. Spirit does continue. A drop of water back into the sea.




2.It is the "soul" that has always been the issue. That is what we know as us. That is not so certain.




3.But as far as life in the physical body goes, that of course will not last and I look forward to the rest.




Body, soul and spirit. Three different answers to the same question.

[Bob May]

Hawkeye Crow wrote:





Bob May : some theologists believe that the term " soul " simply means the individual being , in the flesh , and not Spirit. Semantics means a lot
, that is, not the Word itself , but its Context and Usage in culture. Watch out for the Syntax!

I am watching the syntax. And defining my terms so that there is no mistaking my understanding of the concepts.


Man is made up of Body, Soul and Spirit. That is my understanding.


The body is all that we can agree upon. Soul and spirit less so.


Soul can be defined as everything we know, feel and have experienced.




That is my point where does that go?


In Scripture there is what is called the "Second Death." The end of the soul.


Not all are destined to experience this Second Death, but I believe that THIS is where the fear of death comes from. This is the REAL fear of death.


It is obvious that we will all die "bodily" and it gets much clearer as we age. Some will even welcome the rest or cessation of bodily pain.


But oblivion is frightening. To not BE anymore is an option most do not even want to consider let alone experience..

[seeitall]

the point is that what I think is me or what I think is you will die. The spirit may eventually return to God,


but it was never you or me, not my friend or enemy. It was something impersonal like light. Should I care then


what happens to spirit or find it comforting ? I do not, I cannot relate to that, not yet.

[Bob May]

seeitall wrote:

the point is that what I think is me or what I think is you will die. The spirit may eventually return to God,


but it was never you or me, not my friend or enemy. It was something impersonal like light. Should I care then


what happens to spirit or find it comforting ? I do not, I cannot relate to that, not yet.





My point exactly. That is why I said that the issue is the soul, not the spirit. The soul may or may not cease to be. The soul IS you or me.


I intend that mine will go on. You seem to believe that it is inevitable that it will not.


To become one with the One Spirit and retain the awareness that I still exist is to me the goal.


I could be wrong (stranger things have happened) and my opinions might change over time. But that is the way I see it at this point.

[seeitall]

I think I understand you better now Bob. so lets a for sake of discussion


accept that the word "DIE" means both the death of body and soul.


What I prefer to believe is that I can DIE any time, now , tomorrow, next year.


There are no guaranties I will LIVE next day. That way you can use death


as you advisor . If you believe only in the death of your body, the death is


really negligible. What is the significance of the death of your body if


your soul continues to live ? NONE whatsoever !

[Guest]

I know that when one dies the worms eat the physical body, unless one becomes a warrior and burns from within.
That is a very difficult thing to do, it takes a lifetime of impeccability to accomplish such thing just a few are able.
The last one to "burn from within" was the Nagual Don Juan Matus sometime around 1962 Anno Dommini [AD].
Not even the Nagual Carlos Arana Castaneda was able to, none of his followers or party did that so Good Luck.

[Blue totem]

Maybe there is a universal force, common to each of us, that never really dies.


Maybe we are expressions of a single universal force that is eternal.


As for individuality, maybe thats the part that dies.




Our bodies are made of eternal energy particles, vibrating for infinity.


Life and death is a circle/cycle of this energy. So maybe we are eternal.


If matter is eternal, why not spirit. Who knows.

[grandspeculator]

Seeking the so-called immortals... in the flesh or dreaming:




Babaji Goraknath, Matsyendranath, the Taoist Immortals, Padmashambava, the Wanderling Jew, and many others.




In many earth traditions the possibility of physical immortality or extreme longevity is stated as a factual thing. How to achieve it remains an open issue.

[Guest]

Dunno the exact recipe of immortality but a few thing I do now people look much better even at old age if the live right. Respecting the ten commandements and
if they do not have children an 80 yr old might look like 50 yr old.


Death openes the coccoon of each being on this planet the energy leaves the body then a new incarnation comes.


What i agree with is once i human you incarnate as human not plant not animal and that a pact with death is not possible unless you are a death defier.

[another spirit]

pact with death?

[Nagual LoneWolf]

There are some pacts with death but the pacts never last.

[another spirit]

Example? Other than using as an advisor or source of jolts. It is also my understanding that at death the cocoon opens into whatever is around. Ive been blown in dreaming into this black fluffy substance, thinking that's the fuel for the fire of the next body?

[another spirit]

here may be one - i use mine to round up all the attacks on me into one bundle, then toss it all at once

[Nagual LoneWolf]

There you go.Ha. Death pacts ..I made one long ago. Death offered me a chance to leave this world intact but I refused the offer advising death I wanted to live here, death said I could but I would not get another offer from it. The pact was that I would gain power here but would face death again.