Dreaming and Gates

[Nagual LoneWolf]

When a experiences dreamer dreams they can go through different gates. We call them 'gates' but they can be described as portals or shifts. Where one dreams, I feel needs to be addressed here. Most of the time a dreamer dreams in the real world of earth. We will journey through gates to a past events such as the house we used to live in (which may no longer be there), we may journey into the future where we might interact with future events (another gate). We dream real time in other places on on the earth, in houses, rooms,streets, etc. Often in these dreams we meet other dreamers and beings. There is a special personal gate we each have. This gate is where we have created a place that does not or has not ever existed except in our minds (example: such as carnival or town) and this place can contain created people but they are creations from your mind and do not exist. For another to enter your gate to your created place can be done but the dreamer has to pull the other dreamer pass their gate. With that said, mind you that inorganics can enter any gates including your special gate and interact. Often they do for this is a special type of energy and they love to roll play. A dreamer can go through thousands of gates to other worlds out there in space, to worlds within our world, to places that existed long ago, to worlds that can only be accessed in a special dreaming state (dream within a dream). By creating the dreaming body and learning to use it by manipulating its assemblage point one can do in dreaming just about anything in a lucid state. Thats's right I said the dreaming body's ap. Why? Because the dreaming body has its own perception and awareness and it percieves other worlds THAT IT IS IN using its assemblage point. Your human body lying asleep in bed has its ap with it, you do not take it with you. Make sense?

[fabs]

Thanks for the interesting post LW. It certainly adds to the gates as described by Castaneda. 
Astral-AP position

Three nights ago I was dreaming and saw a very colorful and abstract landscape very cartoon-like. It reminded of a record sleeve by the 70's progressive band YES. http://upload.wikimedia.o...be/Yessongs_Pathways.jpg
As I was observing it, I knew and I thought that it was an Astral dream and I was trying to feel my Assemblage point and Chakras to understand what it was in my own configuration that made me perceive this word in this particular way. I thought that it would look like a different world through an other assemblage point position but I was not able to move it slightly, only change completely and go to another dream.


Ring of Power - For about a year I got into a habit of clearing dream projections (objects and people) with my intent and also by pointing the little finger. I was often asking dream characters if they were projections or real or I just tried to see their energy. But one day, I went to a total world: everybody was real and nothing disappeared and the intent of all these beings was so strong, it was like here in the real world, everything was solid and there was no way to escape or change dream...I only managed by going to a quiet place and fell asleep. I understood that their attention maintained my assemblage point in place effortlessly to be in this world, I could have lots of internal dialogue, think about other places or things without having anything change around me. I escaped by going to a quiet place to fall asleep, then woke up in my bed.

[watergaze]

wow, fabs, you must be a really good dreamer.

I just wrote about how I would like to understand about projections in dreams better. You seem to have put some attention into that venue . Would you mind sharing information/observation on this? How it functions and how it behaves . I have so far not focused my attention on this.



But I am starting to note more often people changing into other people and such. Am thinking for example if I can project a person onto another person. Or if they can be projections or if it means they are not wholesome or just that I really suck at identification .

How do projections behave as opposed to real people?

etc

[watergaze]

lonewolf, this place that only exists in our minds can be like a place that we like from the past (but changed in some aspects slightly, in some considerably and in some almost not at all) or is it just something totally different?



hm now I am thinking about our personal place that we have in shamanic dreaming actually.. it is like a base for shamanic travelling. Might be a totally different concept and thing, I just made a connect and am contemplating that now..

What is this special personal place in dreaming used for, or more like does it have a specific function to/for the dreamer?

[Nagual LoneWolf]

In dreaming we are leaving our bodies and going places.Some places are real and some are created by us.We might populate this creations with people or other beings,objects,structures but they only exist because we create them.To enter another dreamers dream is a gate.When we as Ravens meet it is usually at a place that exists because it is mucher more a dreaming task to meet in a dreamer's dream.

[Guest]

I find the aspect of creation interesting. When we create our dream places they become a part of reality at this point... we can access them repeatedly or not at all. This brings into question of multiple realities and how each evolves.

[Guest]

Yes, perhaps this 'world' started as a creation.

[Guest]

Ok, so my understading is you are saying its more likely people meet in place that exisits, and rarer to enter another's created dream place, and that for the latter, one gets pulled in there. Why does the dreamer pull another in there...to give them energy? Or perhaps the reasons vary, but noted inorganics can go there for a special energy you said.



Also, the idea of 2 ap,s is fascinating, will consider more on this.

[Guest]

Ah, and it just dawned on me, that a dreamer can learn a lot about another dreamer in the created place and vice versa if dreamer is aware they pulled the other there. Perhaps once the other is there, they leave their energy resonance there too and thus can alter dynamics of the place that had been solely one persons perception.

[fabs]

What you wrote LW makes sense: when we meet we probably do in a real place.

Once I asked a Tensegrity instructor who was a direct apprentice of Castaneda about dreaming together which I wanted to learn.

She said Castaneda had instructed them to meet in a real place. Go to a park together for instance and feel and 'record' the sounds, light, smells and each other' s presence.

[Nagual LoneWolf]

If we Ravens were all to meet in a carnival created in Raven's mind for example, that would be quite a feat. If we were (done this before) meet in a world that is underwater and inhabited by fish people then we in a actual world where this is occurring. Dreaming where one creates everything in the dream is indeed a powerful dreaming feat.

[Nagual LoneWolf]

Yes Raven, the dreaming body has its own assemblage point that can be shifted quite easily and often generally tumbles all over the place..

[fabs]

I believe we are 'technically' able to meet in a created place that we would share...what we still need to work on is our relationships, trust, communication, including being able to address problems and challenges.

[watergaze]

I second fabs



I also find it quite logical that the dreaming body has its own AP(s), this is not new info for me in itself. I wonder more at how it works when we switch from it to us. If there is a shared AP of us and it, or more I could also imagine at this point in my understanding that there is are many many APs and some of them are of the double while others are of our physical body and all of them are all on one scale so to speak. But this is just pre-theory

[Nagual LoneWolf]

Oh yes I agree Fabs, mainly I am just describing the different ways and places we as dreamers can and do meet.

[Guest]

Nagual LoneWolf wrote:Yes Raven, the dreaming body has its own assemblage point that can be shifted quite easily and often generally tumbles all over the place..Yes, I just never considered it is all,... yet I know very well that the dreaming double can come here in the awake and interact in the tonal environment while the physical person can have their own attention, be across the globe or just not near by and even be unaware of the doubles doings. I know there is a link, but it might not be felt all the time or immediately. Link between the dreamer's awareness and the awake one that is. I used to think of that link as a shared ap, but it makes more sense there are two aps. I care not how many there are, its more interesting to do then simply talk about it. Dreaming awake fascinates me, I will see a vision appear, such as driving down a road, and I do not recognize the scenery, and I do not know about driving any car, or riding in any car, but the scene I see is happening, somewhere and also I am here seeing the scenery here too. So different aps but they converge, there is some kind of convergence. So its one ap then? Master ap perhaps, or its been called the third attention.

[Guest]

fabs wrote:I believe we are 'technically' able to meet in a created place that we would share...what we still need to work on is our relationships, trust, communication, including being able to address problems and challenges.Yes, we could be solitary warriors, but what fun would that be? To me all our problems arise from the flyer. Not everyone agrees with me though

[Nagual LoneWolf]

Once one can access both assemblage points they obtain the third attention. A nagual being goes one step forward and its double has both a nagual and tonal side as opposed to one tonal (awake state) and nagual (dreaming state) the warrior has. This extra tonal is like having a invisible twin brother/sister.

[fabs]

Thanks LOne Wolf, this interests me very much. I wonder if you could elaborate a little when you can. By 'both assemblage points' you mean the one in dreaming and the one in the tonal? Also I have more personal questions here:I have been in the third attention: was it possible because it was with Don Juan's help or is it also because I am a double being? (can a warrior with is not a double being, go there with a nagual?)
Also, while I was in my energy body, Don Juan has made me face my double but it was not the physical one, but more like a twin energy body....And I have met him in dreaming afterwards on my own....is it a manifestation of being a double being? 
thanks

[Nagual LoneWolf]

Both ap's yes: the tonal and the nagual aps. Once we can lose our rigid intents and become fluid the lines between the attentions become faded and a warrior can ease into the third attention on their own or can be 'turned' by another in either state. The twin energy body/double can be accessed by anyone who has developed their double by dreaming and using such toltec practices. A nagual being's double and it is indeed a manifestation with its own agenda. Its hard to put into words but imagine a twin brother who knows all about you but you have dim if any knowledge of him. You, being a nagual being are naturally more nagual then tonal in your normal state and you listen very closely to yourself and are aware of omens and signs from the spirit that you have a natural link to (you were born with it). In this 'normal' state you go about your business in a heighten awareness because your a nagual being. When you dream you are able to access your dreaming double (which has its own tonal) whose power you are pretty much a captive of, for it is you times ten (manner of speaking). If you can manifest the third attention you become aware of two minds, two double beings in one, four compartments separate but still one. The third awareness for you is binding as it gives you awareness of what is greater than you but is you. This knowledge and seeing produces the fire from within. One burns from inside to remove the walls put up since childhood. One learns what they are if they live through it. The price? One's humanity I suppose..(smile). SO to answer the last part, is your dreaming double a manifestation of a double being? Yes for we all our double beings for we have two assemblage points accessing different awareness's.

[fabs]

thanks a lot for all this, you explained it very clearly. lots to take in...but from my side of things it is inspirational and I can see there is definitely no time for indulging anymore (as if this was ever an option!). It is great to know all of us we can potentially make it to the third attention...let's do it!

[Guest]

Yes, Wolf, Fabs, nice exchange. What's great is we have this dream forum to practice, hone these things. This is valuable. I think we need more nagual focus here...focus on these aspects and developing them. Thats not a criticism of this forum, rather its something that just dawned on me to do... Bring back the toltec syntax here more. As it helps us stay on same page. It never mattered to me how much one read up on CC, I am always happy to explain the definitions to people who maybe haven't read the books or very little. I think lots of people experience things that later reading the books (or hearing it explained) they corroborate with the definitions, and so just using the definitions more now to bring back focus.



This is not to say there is a correct way to dream or incorrect way. But rather, there are ways to develop abilities, (just like musicians have tried and true ways to learn musical methods and such), and the toltec path is definitely good for developing naguals. And all of us here are naguals, right? ... right



Like for example, one our our dreaming tasks could be to develop the double. To come up with the best ways to do this and practice on it. Why? Because we are naguals, why waste it? Its like a person who is 6 foot tall, good at quick reactions, quick thinker and likes sports...hey man, join a basketball team to have fun. Learn how to use your body to make the shots, dribble ball, finesse your way down the court. Hone what is natually inside you. Be who you really are to the most of your ability. Harry Potter was sent to sorcery school, imagine if we had that option growing up.



Ok, I'll start off with this offering...not my words, but a good thread on practical applications, because thats what its all about baby...the practical...the doing. Talk is great...so lets talk about what we are DOING ... Raise the bar higher, on ourselves, each month. As naguals. And hopefully no one here is one of those doubter naguals "oh I'm not SURE if I'm a nagual" I doubt you'd be here if you weren't. You'd be home knitting a sweater or something like that. No disrespect to knitters...some of the best knitters are naguals I bet. Or is that, some of the best naguals are knitters...I forget which.
http://sorcery.yuku.com/topic/722/9-Keys-To-Dreaming
first two posts of that thread. Good practical stuff to put to use.

[watergaze]

maybe you can explain what a nagual is in your definition. Seems like we are all naguals according to what lonewolf and you say.


Lonewolf wrote:SO to answer the last part, is your dreaming double a manifestation of a double being? Yes for we all our double beings for we have two assemblage points accessing different awareness's.
I guess "our" in the last sentence = are



I never took being a nagual man/woman to mean that we have a double (thought yes the double can be called nagual I suppose).. it is not the meaning that CC put on that word (he never called don Genaro a nagual, did he?).. I always took it that just some are naguals..



Please explain somebody . Sorry for being ignorant .

[Nagual LoneWolf]

Our=are in above post. Don Genaro was nagual being, the indians in Northern Mexico used the term Nahual for a sorcerer, for the dreaming worlds, for the spirit, for a spiritual leader, for the unknown etc. This Nahual/Nagual is a term used in many different ways by us here. Don Juan stated in one of the books that there are nagual beings on the earth in many forms from insects to trees, to animals and to men.

[fabs]

However, all the other warriors form DJ's party were not naguals (in the sense that they did not all have four energy compartments). Is is right?

So it must be the same for us in Ravenfield.