What is the difference between sorcery and nagualism?

[CI5]

in original, it was: "One cannot *dominate* this force (Intent), idiots" ! - Don Juan Matus to Castaneda and his both groups )

[rosygyro]

i would say that sorcerers require other people to practice sorcery apon!
sorcerers require other people to make a leap through time and space after death
nagualism students require nothing and no-one to practice nagualism or to make an infinite jump!

[Guest]

nemo wroteJ: The Power of Silence 


At
various times don Juan attempted to name his knowledge for my benefit. He felt
that the most appropriate name was nagualism, but that the term was too
obscure. Calling it simply "knowledge" made it too vague, and to call
it "witchcraft" was debasing. "The mastery of intent" was
too abstract, and "the search for total freedom" too long and
metaphorical. Finally, because he was unable to find a more appropriate name,
he called it "sorcery," although he admitted it was not really
accurate. 


(nemo) This is a lovely explanation by DJ and if you
take all the gaps between the words out and make it one word you have a clump of
info that is what I call sourcery, as to avoid the tendency of tonals to make
ism’s out of belief systems and then make it more important than an individuals
connection with its source. 


Sorcery and Witchcraft have the same debasing angle
and virtually indistinguishable in my neck of the woods. If you say Nagualism when
someone asks what you are into, it’s still to obscure. So I say “Sorcery with a
u after the o” and then who I am speaking to gets it on some level.  The mastery of Intent works for any religious types and New agers
Really Ravenmoon you had an idea of what the difference was when you asked the question, and with answers from others you can pit what you think against what comes up and see and where it stands. The same word means many different things to many different people, so awarenesses reading this thread will resonate towards the explanations that fit closest to their attention level. So the difference is in who's asking.
There are a few things missing in DJ's paragraph one is references to the double and dreaming and from the new age terminologies their references to frequency, help the understanding of how things can faze into and out of a bubble of perceptions perceptual field, from a more modern or scientific approach. Maybe sourcedialingism frequencism or my favourite freaqualism.









 
Nice reply Nemo, like NLW said, impressive.

[Guest]

Ravenmoon wrote:What is the difference between sorcery and nagualism. Are there strong distinctions? If so what?

I want to revisit this question. I read in another forum in mainforum here, about CC, and discussion was about: sorcery is not concerned with morals, and lies are not seen as bad. Energy and impeccability are all that matters, not compassion which is self importance in disguise. I do not disagree with those points. I have seen how ugly limiting morality grips society, and things done in the name of compassion may not be that at all. However, this renewed discussion on sorcery being indifferent to all these "human" concerns, does bring back to forefront an asking - so what IS nagualism if its not sorcery or social human? If sorcery is just about aquiring energy and escaping moral limitations, what makes nagualism different from sorcery? What is the spiritual aspect of nagualism?

[quantumshaman]

Ravenmoon wrote:
Ravenmoon wrote:
What is the difference between sorcery and nagualism. Are there strong distinctions? If so what?
I want to revisit this question. I read in another forum in mainforum here, about CC, and discussion was about: sorcery is not concerned with morals, and lies are not seen as bad. Energy and impeccability are all that matters, not compassion which is self importance in disguise. I do not disagree with those points. I have seen how ugly limiting morality grips society, and things done in the name of compassion may not be that at all. However, this renewed discussion on sorcery being indifferent to all these "human" concerns, does bring back to forefront an asking - so what IS nagualism if its not sorcery or social human? If sorcery is just about aquiring energy and escaping moral limitations, what makes nagualism different from sorcery? What is the spiritual aspect of nagualism?
Assuming a warrior practices what DJM called "the right way to live," social/cultural morals are entirely irrelevant, because those things change as the world changes - just transient rules that may apply today and not tomorrow.  The right way to live is another matter altogether - because it supercedes social/cultural "morals" and cuts straight to the heart of nagualism.  The seeker who has become One with the nagual understands and practices the right way to live, not as a matter of rules or ideas, but as a matter of silent knowing.  Unfortunately, the moment one attempts to put "the right way to live" into words (such as the 10 commandments, just for example), the right way to live is then diminished to words, and words are the foundation of "morals" and... back to the beginning we go.   The right way to live is within every human being - I say "human" because we cannot know what TRWTL might be for a coyote or raven.  We can only know within our human paradigm.  And once we lose the humanform, we come to your next question:
What is the spiritual aspect of nagualism?
Evolution of awareness, and - most of all - embracing one's totality.  What does that mean?  Put simply, it is the union between self/double which brings the seeker face to face with the infinite.  That is the spiritual aspect of nagualism - the cosmic orgasm of embracing who/what one is, and then from that new foundation, moving on to the next evolution.
QS

[nemo.primeradiant]

A cosmic orgasm, How much is one one of those QS.  
RM, Spirituality, need not be expressed as an ism, words interact with the mind, and descriptions make sense to the mind. Morality is more an aspect of intuition and body knowledge. The mind actively overrides intuition, feeling and seeing, and then many, emptied of direct knowing, need societal guidelines for behavior.
I don't want to say anything negative about CC's because he had to be the way he was for the books to have been written. We don't need him to have been a saint or devil for us to get in touch with something that need not be put into words.

[quantumshaman]

nemo wrote:



A cosmic orgasm, How much is one one of those QS.    
The cosmic orgasm is priceless.  For everything else, there's MasterCard.

[Guest]

To answer on the other half of the question: The difference between sorcery and nagualism. To make an analogy - sorcery intent that does not aim for the nagual is like a closed room with many windows that do not open and there is no door. The windows give the illusion that perception is not contained through this practice, due to all that can be seen from the windows while being within the room. Yet one is always aware of this fact that they are not truly free, so there is always a choice at hand.

[Guest]

[Guest]