Nagual Church

[rosygyro]

g on wether the nagual can learn anything from their continued lack of intelligent co-operation or true fluidity..
will be torn to ribbons....depending on wether the nagual can learn anything from their continued lack of intelligent co-operation or true fluidity..
will be torn trosygyro wrote  depending on wether the nagual can learn anything from their continued lack of intelligent co-operation or true fluidity will be torn to ribbons..


this is pivotal in the naguals total focus..
a nagual man can meet many many petty tyrants this lifetime.. and although he has the power to shred them totally or destroy them totally.. he never grants himself the wish!
he knows that wasting personal power is not his thing..
he also knows that battle breeds knowledge and power.. and that a petty tyrant is a lengthy battle for power that reaps more dividends if prolonged..
the petty tyrant is nothing if not basic..
and the nagual knows that over time the petty tyrant will gather neither personal power or knowledge.. prefering to anaghilate his enemies rather than keep them for the ride..
wheras he himself will!
meaning it is only a matter of time before the tyrant is overthrown...
by the naguals increasing power... up against the unyeilding selfishness of the tyrant"££
The c racks begin to form... and then the pieces are torn apart along the paths of power the nagual has accumulated..


and the tyrant.. is RE-ORGANISED...

depending on wether the nagual can learn anything from their continued lack of intelligent co-operation or true fluidity..
will be torn to ribbons....
 depending on wether the nagual can learn anything from their continued lack of intelligent co-operation or true fluidity..
will be torn to ribbons....

[rosygyro]

from this you should realise..

that the tyrant is the OPPOSITE OF FLUID!

he is beyond all other "normal" men... as he ;atches onto the resistance aspect of the human assemblage.. and makes himself as a stone creating fear and pain within social conditioning!

as such without gaining an ounce of fluidity.. he rules those around him by their fears....



But at the end of the day he is just a stone.. a block of power stored by mans refusal to change...



AND HERS THE FUNNY BIT!



man is ruled by social conditioning..

and essentially by these blocks of stone that the petty tyrant lives by!



If the petty tyrant can be re-organised in lieu of his weakening "personal" power versus the nagual warriors...

then not only is the petty tyrant critically re-junctioned..

but also the basic fabric of resistance behind social conditioning in the entire human habitual assemblage.. is undermined...

and replace with a new impetus for social conditioning...



meaning fear, sobriety, power and death.. can begin to be ruled by the future force of potential energy..

rather than the past energy of personal social conditioning!



Its gonna be PARTY CENTRAL.

[rosygyro]

OH.. and ive been chopping up sandstone slabs with a nine-inch diamond bladed angle grinder...

some of my cuts are nice..

you can use them for your church if you like.. but please supply your own stone!...

[rosygyro]

essentially there are at least ten dimensions..co-alescing an act of manifestation on the dense physical plains..

these manifestations result in a "CLUSTERING" of material energy.. that makes the bedrock of the world we see today...



it is the cataclysmic change of the CLUSTER that will change the human assemblage point!



as the petty tyrant remains largeley enegeticly the same...

wheras the nagual man gains enegetic power as well as speed and strength..



what started out as an UNSTOPPABLE FORCE(nagual).. versu the IMMOVABLE OBJECT(petty tyrant)..

becomes unequal.. not in terms of universal force..

but in tersm of ENERGY within a single incarnation...

once the energy is isolated within the living portions of the dense physical plains.. it has an avenue for it to become creative...

and also.. the respective lifeforms and their adherance to the flow of life.. can be judges and viewed by the EYE.. or daath..



the eye itself simply watches patterns in lifes course..

but over time it senses its own future...

the simple matter of fact is that when the eye views some patterns it senses a long future..

(ie.. when it views loving, courageous and destiny inspired individuals..)

and when it views others.. its future closes and it is thrown back on itself to study the past)

nameley because if the sons of mind win.. there will be no future human awareness. and hence it can only observer its origin potentially)..



hence telling the EYE which way is east and which way is west is vital...

if we are to instigate the WRATH of GOD. as the religious would call it!

or FAIRPLAY.. as we would!

[Nagual LoneWolf]

How about the WARRIOR LEAGUE?

[Wiseass]

That sounds cool, but most people will join just for the name. hehehe


Nagual Warrior League...


Well... it's up to Dreamways.

[Gonzo]

I don't much care for the whole idea because no matter how you look at it, what is being proposed is a "club", and all clubs have organization and ranking and rules, initiation rites, meetings, events, etc, and as Groucho famously said, "I don't care to belong to any club that will have me as a member."

[Nagual LoneWolf]

Your a member here Gonzo.

[Gonzo]

Good bust.

[rosygyro]

its called HIERARCHY!



even the seperation between those who cannot move the habitual assemblage and those who do.. denotes style of hierarchy or superioroty in perception......

churches do tend to be heirarchial in levels of spiritual recognition..



there is a myth that a man once had incredible power to move the human assemblage...

and performed incredible healings ....

but he too was hierarchial...



had he focussed on moving all the people together.. and the total assemblage...

then when he died his people would not have been lost without him....



unfortunatley he didnt begin a movement. he began a fame culture around himself...

when he died.. his people should have said..



"ONE OF US IS DEAD. WE ARE LEGION WE ARE MOB, WE ARE ONE WE ARE MANY, WE ARE COLLECTIVE"



but they didnt because the man who died wanted to be a master over the others..

or they would not have mourned his passing!



when a person with a properly aligned MEST body dies or jumps to infinity.. he does NOT leave pain or suffering in any man he touched in life...

he calculates his jump to leave them a blessing primary. and a position in life for another to fill with their learning!

and secure his infinite jump to freedom as a secondary energy!



The hierarchy will fall...

and rather than bedlam we will have equality once again.



PROVE ME WRONG..

No one alive remembers the man in question..

yet just ike jesus, and others..

people kill and murder in his name!

all rationality lost at the hands of bygone saints and masters...

may not have been saints or masters at all!



question everything..

the oldest man alive is 120 years...



anything before that that effects us... is dead men talking! and only still talking becasue they have failed their leap to freedom.. and still latch onto the living as they seek to remain consious! for eternity!

[rosygyro]

what disgusts me about religious zealotism.. is the defenders of the institution!



These people only have indoctrination to rule their beleif systems...

not one man on earth has the right to harm another...

and yet apparently the act of speaking against religion even in a philosophical manner is offence enough to bring a death penalty for some..

others justify the mental,emotional, physical or even tantric torture of others for having opinion!



the hypocrasy of men who lash out at their fellow men to protect and defend their own blind faith is terrifying!

terrifying like a nun hypnotised to kill someone!



religion is only indoctrination...

the fact of the matter remains.. we revere these figures from our spiritual past!

but any man who emulates them.. will

either be declared psychoticly divergent..

or be killed for idolatry!



and yet within the institutions themselves there are men quite happy to invoke the mind remnants and spiritual remains of dead saints...

even though its technically necromancy and is a crime of the spirit...



its disgracefull...

[Hawkeye Crow]

Rosegyro, again we seem to agree, although your prose is a bit obtuse. See? I do it to, although I try to express myself in simpler terms.

As to Gonzo, you speak to part of my search; that is , to find a system of  social; organization without Tyrant type hierarchy.  So far, Native American, generally, not all, seems to be the way to go. Why? And here is the difficulty: After 10,000 years of living on Earth in a natural way, relations were adapted to observable natural phenomena. The Aztecs were an obvious aberration. High civilization, religion led to superstitious misery. If you will indulge me a Biblical reference; Romans 1:20, '...his power perceived  in the things made..' Get it? The organization and the function of nature inform how to do things. That's why city folk are so often neurotic, cut off from natural relations, seeing only man-made reality which is surely , ah what's the word, relative reality maybe.


So, 10,000 years of evolution to reach a rather harmonious ( see Pueblo) relations, not to mention weeding out diseases, until the Europeans brought new ones. Some Indigenous writers call it an Alien Invasion. As a Sci-Fi fan that hits home with me. Maybe that's where War of the Worlds came from.

[rosygyro]

nature can evolve over time...



there exists the possibility that evolution is not just the product of natural selection from a random spread of mutations within a species saving a few from catastrophe..



There is the possibility that nature itself by vegetitive or animal function has forsight.. to itself adapt to its future needs...



the natural world cannot just spring from a chaotic primordial soup...

something monumental must have been aquiesced to.. in order to motivate us out of the sludge in the first place...



what we are looking at today IS the dissassociation of man from nature.. and his subsequent lack of natural intelligence as civilisation and industry itself clouds the vast quantity of our perception....



But just as GAIA! gave us the natural rythms to get us to where we are today as it evolved through the eons...



so too is the possibility that variations in natures evolving capacity.. can equally ignal GAIAS need for us to become responsible.. and communicate this message...



not just through exposure to large levels of nature..

but through the element s of nature that even ferral children in sewers have access to...

or elements of nature.. which even the most alergic hay fever sufferer has access to...



common elements of humanity have massive strength .. they are the nagual...

and the nagual evolves...



let us not saliently rob our fellow men of TRUE spirituality.. because they live in a city 24/7..

or becasue they are locked away....or sent into space in an airtight suit!...



Its vital that you GIFT your RAW nergy.. through the RAW areas of others...

its relative.. but definatley not a hierarchy!"" PEACE!

[dreamways]

rosygyro wrote:
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I agree with Hawkeye Crow, that your writing is a bit obtuse, ok, maybe totally obtuse, but you can't argue with conviction.

[rosygyro]

well i tranlated it.. but i dont think this is what i meant!





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[rosygyro]

Although techniacally.. The strenght and BLUENEss of the latin language is still a result of the necromancy inherant within invoking dead saints through an unspoken dialect!

But lets not forget IM the ****!

In case i forget as well!

[dreamways]

rosygyro wrote:
well i tranlated it.. but i dont think this is what i meant!

I was just goofing around with that, but, ya, latin seems to have a very strong inorganic connection.

[rosygyro]

Its connection is NECROMANCY



"Necromancy (pronounced /ˈnɛkrɵmænsi/; Greek νεκρομαντεία nekromantía, via Latin necromantia) is a form of magic in which the practitioner seeks to summon the spirit of a deceased person, either as an apparition or ghost, or to raise them bodily, for the purpose of divination". online dictionary term.



asking for a dead saint to help or be raised again is necromancy...

it is fraght with problems..



saving grace of latin is that at least within the walls of the vatican it is used to TRY or attempt to have spiritual worth...

which at least makes it the best way to do a bad thing!



But still..

there is nothing usefull a dead person can offer to the lives of the living...

and as long as people HOLD onto them through magical or occult rituals.. it seems unlikeley that that person can have a well focussed re-incarnation... unless it be to disable those very traditions which marr his previous lives with constant summoning!.

[dreamways]

I had to use the name "nagual church" because it nudges the assemblage point of people, meaning, it causes them to dream slightly.  Words that move people's APs are called "spells."  In order to write words which move the AP of the reader, the words themselves have to be created by dreaming, this is what Castaneda meant when he said that his books were written in dreaming.  All of Castaneda's works are just a big book of spells, and that's all my forum, and the nagual church are intended to be.  Only people who were born with inorganic energy in them can write spells, and they are the ones who are most susceptible to them.  A counter-spell is a word which causes your AP to stop moving/dreaming, it is a word from stalking.  Most people have such rigid APs that they don't need counter-spells though.  The way that spell words function is that they capture the intent of the sorcerer who wrote or spoke them.  Spells and counter-spells are both inorganic, and all forms of IB communications are either one or the other these.  Sorcery doesn't function with reason, it functions with intent, so everything in a sorcerers life has to be imbued with intent for it to be real.

[Nagual LoneWolf]

True. Going from black magic/sorcery to nagualism is not a big jump. A sorcerer transcends this knowledge and makes the shift(s).

[rosygyro]

The NAGUAL church..

is at the position where



THe snake swallows its own tail!



we cannot touch ot.. let alone live inside it!



It is within the three riddles of man..

or rather they surround it through the rythm of matter..



it is within the three areas of human awarness.



HUMAN, WARRIOR and HUNTER..

or within the triangle they form.



It demarcates an unknown layer between ALL men and the feamle of the unknown..



it demarcate sth eunknowable for all women and all men..



Anything you are not in control of energteicly must be an extension of the unknown and yoyr love..

or wasted energy spent on your unknown fears..



...



The nagual church..

must exist for everyone..



let us not occupy it like it is a club house..

BUT MAKE ROOM FOR SILENCE!

MAKE ROOM FOR DEATH!

MAKE ROOM FOR THE EASTERLY MACHINE!



LOVE IS THE LAW

[another spirit]

freemasons do this? illuminatti?

[Blue totem]

A nagual church? To me it sounds wrong...
Its like a Mexican sushi. Doesnt sound right.

[rosygyro]

I agree....

If the nagual is nothing how can it have a church!?

[serendipity]

Hi all,

interesting thread, this.



I agree that, the idea of a nagual church seems preposterous, but, if you stop and think about it,..........is it really so strange?

I doubt if Dreamways would share my view of this, (though, you never know,), but, he's actually onto an interesting subject.



Consider the parralels between CC's writings, and organised religions.



Just as, with most religions, CC's version of "Nagualism", offers us the promise that, by a lifetime of correct behaviour, we can continue our awareness after death.

The same characteristics are reckoned to be beneficial,.......like,........humility, discipline, patience, hard work, etc.

We even, have DJ as the Saviour.

A normal man, who has become "divine" through his actions, and can be admired and emulated.

His miracles abound, and its all there, documented, in "the bible" of Nagualism.



Any rational, objective attempt to question "the bible", is seen as heresy.

"Persecute. Kill the heretic!" (Life of Brain,).



The same attitude is often displayed towards those who question the "believers", or the reliability of thier conclusions.



Would it really be so weird, to start a "Nagual church?

Insane, and senseless, perhaps, but, it pretty much fits in with established patterns of human behaviour.



Having established such a church, (assuming that is possible,), it would soon display all the usual characteristics of such things, like, elitism, factionalism and infighting, hierarchy, and the tyranny of the charismatic.

Witness that, much of this behaviour is already manifest on the various internet forums, and elsewhere.





I would say,.....if you wish to be a "normal" human, it is by no means, an unusual idea to start such a church.





If however, you read CC's works objectively, you may have noticed the solitary nature of those who practice such things.





Of course, those who propose such a church, may be attempting to create a group enviroment for learning and support, in lieu of having teachers, or a sorcerer's party to guide them.

If so, that is understandable, and in some ways, seems attractive,........................but,..................I refer you to comments above, regarding normal human bahavioual patterns.



Unless, all the members of a Nagual chuch were impeccable, it would quickly go the way of all other human structures.

I've met many fine people, but, never anyone impeccable.

Its an ideal, to be strived for continuously, but never attained.





So,.........I'll close by saying,.......if you want a church, .......have one!

Accept that, a church is all you'll have,......just like, any other church.