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To discover both the utilization of sorcery and also that perspective
outside of it and to combine these two understandings makes a New Seer. Nu Lang
Nu Lang would you expound on this, especially how you see that these two understandings can be combined? I am also a little fuzzy about the "perspective that stands outside of sorcery". Just trying to get on same page in understanding what you mean
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Ok, well its pretty much what we have been discussing. That the old seers were master sorcerers, but they realized that in death the mystery would be revealed and that was of which they had failed to do in their lifetime.
The perspective outside of sorcery is to die a symbolic death which is to overcome the mind, ego, system...so there is freedom from the system, conditioning. Then with this the ap, no longer does simply lateral shifts but can shift in a way that begins the journey of infinity, which represents that outside of the limits of the old sorcerers. Sorcery is still a tool on the journey, it has a new mood to it which is the mood of freedom (refusing to be contained by anything).
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"The perspective outside of sorcery is to die a symbolic death which is to overcome the mind, ego, system...so there is freedom from the system, conditioning."
I should have been more bold and said the Eagle...hey I just did
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Nu Lang wrote:
To discover both the utilization of sorcery and also that perspective outside of it and to combine these two understandings makes a New Seer. I love it!
Nu Lang, I love the way you explain things so concisely, it's nice to read. Especially since I don't have a lot of patience and have a hard time wading through wordy posts. I like to see the point -- right now!
Of course, that's just me, and i realize some people prefer it the other way, which is good too.
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Thanks
Yes, I saw how Wolf could do the same thing and liked it too. So I set my intent to learn how to hone in that way...took me a few months to work up to shorter posts, lol. Funny, huh,.. working towards "saying less" But its true...as sorcerers would say...time is energy or waste of. Really though its about bypassing all the embellishments the mind wants to input. Its about focus. MS posted today in Zen...about commanding the instrument...and I say a forum is a good place to practice...
http://sorcery.yuku.com/topic/3007/arch ... en?page=-1
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The alien mind penetrates into our story-telling activity, the narrative power so crucial for humanity to make its way in the cosmos.
This is one of the ways, or the most effective way, that we are deviated from our proper course of evolution. For the human species,the capacity to achieve intent depends on developing plots, stories, narrators that can guide us from initial conception to final goal.
Concentration might be defined as the coordination of attention and intention to bring a certain depth of attention to intent.
The foreign installation pulls us out of our syntax. It deranges our indigenous abilities to organize the world according to the language proper to our species. The role of correct syntax in the sorcerer's mastery of intent is one of the central factors in the late teachings of Don Juan. The sorcerer's' concern for deviation of syntax , and consequent derouting of intent, parallels the importance of language and correct definition emphasized in Gnostic teaching. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/cienc ... juan13.htm
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That makes a lot of sense, thank you, ninth.
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ninth octave wrote:
The alien mind penetrates into our story-telling activity, the narrative power so crucial for humanity to make its way in the cosmos.
This is one of the ways, or the most effective way, that we are deviated from our proper course of evolution. For the human species,the capacity to achieve intent depends on developing plots, stories, narrators that can guide us from initial conception to final goal.
Concentration might be defined as the coordination of attention and intention to bring a certain depth of attention to intent.
The foreign installation pulls us out of our syntax. It deranges our indigenous abilities to organize the world according to the language proper to our species. The role of correct syntax in the sorcerer's mastery of intent is one of the central factors in the late teachings of Don Juan. The sorcerer's' concern for deviation of syntax , and consequent derouting of intent, parallels the importance of language and correct definition emphasized in Gnostic teaching. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/cienc ... juan13.htm
The Role of Syntax in Language
Languages have rules. The rules of a language are called the grammar. The reason for these rules is that a person needs to be able to speak an indeterminately large number of sentences in a lifetime. The effort would be impossibly great if each sentence had to be learnt separately.
By learning the rules for connecting words it is possible to create an infinite number of sentences, all of which are meaningful to a person who knows the syntax. Thus it is possible to construct many sentences that the speaker has never heard before.
A finite number of rules facilitates an infinite number of sentences that can be simultaneously understood by both the speaker and the listener.
In order for this to work with any degree of success, the rules have to be precise and have to be consistently adhered to. These rules cover such things as: the way words are constructed; the way the endings of words are changed according to context (inflection); the classification of words into parts of speech (nouns, verbs, pronouns, etc.); the way parts of speech are connected together.
The rules of grammar do not have to be explicitly understood by the speaker of the language or the listener.
The majority of native speakers of a language will have no formal knowledge of the grammar of a language but are still capable of speaking the language grammatically to a great degree of accuracy. Native speakers of a language assimilate these rules subconsciously while the language is being learned as a child.
The Components of Grammars
The grammar of a language has several components. These can be described as follows:
a) The phonetics that governs the structure of sounds;
b) The morphology that governs the structure of words;
c) The syntax, which governs the structure of sentences
d) The semantics that governs the meanings of words and sentences.
John 1
Joh 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2
The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
" In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word WAS God..."
"And God SAID, Let there be light...and there was light.."
Why was Don Juan so interested in Syntax? Why was it so important to an understanding of this world we live in?
You see above that part of this group of rules called "syntax", "semantics", had to do with the meanings of the words used. Makes sense, right?
How can you communicate if you do not agree on a definition?
Now here comes Paul in the New Testament speaking about the Old Testament "stories."
Ga 4:22
For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
Ga 4:23
But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Ga 4:24
Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar
If the "darkness" could not, and cannot, comprehend the shining of the light, one of the reasons is that their "semantics" are wrong. The failure of realizing a story was created/written in Allegorical form, is to fail to discern the intent of the author. You will only see the suface meaning of the story.
Now, since the Entire Creation was created by the Word of God, if we take that line of thinking a step further, then ALL OF CREATION, from the lowest to the highest realms are also Allegorical in form.
To read the creation story, or any allegorical story, for that matter, takes a tremendous amount of concentration. Especially when the foriegn intallation and other people's foriegn installations, ("the Darkness"), tells you that what you are reading is literal.
Now take it a step further.
Those that have "seen" past the obvious are telling us that our "syntax" is wrong when it comes to everything we come in contact with. Everything we see, hear, feel, taste, touch and know has a deeper meaning.
We are living our lives within a "book" that was written allegorically and we must learn to give less credence to the surface meaning of the "words" (elements of this world) and more credence to what those elements are telling us.
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I feel strongly that this path, and power chose me, rather then the other way around...that is an important distinction, I say. Becasue if power chose us, it is and has been speaking to us our whole lives...which means we need to 'tune in' to it. Lose the syntax given to you, the FI, and inner silence will be your guide...it is called inner silence, but it speaks.
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Bob, your post reminds me of this:
Syntax
A man staring
at his equations
said that the universe had a beginning.
There had been an explosion, he said.
A bang of bangs, and the universe was born.
And it is expanding, he said.
He had even calculated the length of its life:
ten billion revolutions of the earth around the sun.
The entire globe cheered;
They found his calculations to be science.
None thought that by proposing that the universe began,
the man had merely mirrored the syntax of his mother tongue;
a syntax which demands beginnings, like birth,
and developments, like maturation,
and ends, like death, as statements of facts.
The universe began,
and it is getting old, the man assured us,
and it will die, like all things die,
like he himself died after confirming mathematically
the syntax of his mother tongue.
**************************
The Other Syntax
Did the universe
really begin?
Is the theory of the big bang true?
These are not questions, though they sound like they are.
Is the syntax that requires beginnings, developments
and ends as statements of fact the only syntax that exists?
That's the real question.
There are other syntaxes.
There is one, for example, which demands that varieties
of intensity be taken as facts.
In that syntax nothing begins and nothing ends;
thus birth is not a clean, clear-cut event,
but a specific type of intensity,
and so is maturation, and so is death.
A man of that syntax, looking over his equations, finds that
he has calculated enough varieties of intensity
to say with authority
that the universe never began
and will never end,
but that it has gone, and is going now, and will go
through endless fluctuations of intensity.
That man could very well conclude that the universe itself
is the chariot of intensity
and that one can board it
to journey through changes without end.
He will conclude all that, and much more,
perhaps without ever realizing
that he is merely confirming
the syntax of his mother tongue.
***************************
From "The Active
Side of Infinity" by Carlos Castaneda
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Nu Lang wrote:I feel strongly that this path, and power chose me, rather then the other way around...that is an important distinction, I say. Becasue if power chose us, it is and has been speaking to us our whole lives...which means we need to 'tune in' to it. Lose the syntax given to you, the FI, and inner silence will be your guide...it is called inner silence, but it speaks.
Ha! Nice post. We were posting at the same time!
(I just said -- elsewhere-- that I feel like Power led me here!)
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Lose the Syntax given to you, the FI,
**************************
and inner silence The Other Syntax will be your guide...
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"We were posting at the same time!"
Yes... I saw.. and our posts complemented each other, which I then integrated
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Nu Lang wrote:"We were posting at the same time!"
Yes... I saw.. and our posts complemented each other, which I then integrated Love it!
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Nu Lang wrote:
Lose the Syntax given to you, the FI,
**************************
and inner silence The Other Syntax will be your guide...
Yes, That is because before the beginning,..before (or above or behind or within, depending on your preferrence) the first Word was spoken. There was Silence.
And it is only in the Silence that we can begin to hear.
""I feel strongly that this path, and power chose me, rather then the other way around...that is an important distinction, I say. Becasue if power chose us, it is and has been speaking to us our whole lives...which means we need to 'tune in' to it. Lose the syntax given to you, the FI, and inner silence will be your guide...it is called inner silence, but it speaks.""
Joh 15:16
Ye have not CHOSEN ME, but I have CHOSEN YOU, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you
Lu 19:40
And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should Hold Their Peace, the stones would immediately cry out.
Yes, the source of all is speaking to us and has been forever. And that speaking takes on many forms from inside us and from outside us.
Again the idea of Allegory. There is something behind all of the symbols that make up the world/universe we exist in, whether they be words or dreams or objects or situations we find ourselves in.
Job 12:7
But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee:
Job 12:8
Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee.
Job 12:9
Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the LORD hath wrought this?
That was Don Juan's "Hunt for Power." He would purposefully go out into the desert with Carlos to wait for something to happen. A message from the nagual.
For the reasons above I don't see the world as "Illusion" as many wise men have stated. But as Allegorical Symbols because they do serve a purpose. They Teach Us!
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Enchantra wrote:
Bob, your post reminds me of this:
Syntax
A man staring at his equations
said that the universe had a beginning.
There had been an explosion, he said.
A bang of bangs, and the universe was born.
And it is expanding, he said.
He had even calculated the length of its life:
ten billion revolutions of the earth around the sun.
The entire globe cheered;
They found his calculations to be science.
None thought that by proposing that the universe began,
the man had merely mirrored the syntax of his mother tongue;
a syntax which demands beginnings, like birth,
and developments, like maturation,
and ends, like death, as statements of facts.
The universe began,
and it is getting old, the man assured us,
and it will die, like all things die,
like he himself died after confirming mathematically
the syntax of his mother tongue.
**************************
The Other Syntax
Did the universe really begin?
Is the theory of the big bang true?
These are not questions, though they sound like they are.
Is the syntax that requires beginnings, developments
and ends as statements of fact the only syntax that exists?
That's the real question.
There are other syntaxes.
There is one, for example, which demands that varieties
of intensity be taken as facts.
In that syntax nothing begins and nothing ends;
thus birth is not a clean, clear-cut event,
but a specific type of intensity,
and so is maturation, and so is death.
A man of that syntax, looking over his equations, finds that
he has calculated enough varieties of intensity
to say with authority
that the universe never began
and will never end,
but that it has gone, and is going now, and will go
through endless fluctuations of intensity.
That man could very well conclude that the universe itself
is the chariot of intensity
and that one can board it
to journey through changes without end.
He will conclude all that, and much more,
perhaps without ever realizing
that he is merely confirming
the syntax of his mother tongue.
***************************
From "The Active Side of Infinity" by Carlos Castaneda
Hi Enchantra,
Here is another "Syntax" concerning the Creation Myth and also the Big Bang Theory that most people don't consider.
What if it is not speaking of "time" at all, but by using the passage of time allegorically, it is really speaking of levels of manifestation of Spirit?
Then the closer to the "beginning" the more rarified the substance of all that is manifest.
Beyond the "beginning" would then be outside of time and space. Pure Consciousness. Spirit. Silence.
And that would mean that it is all here now, and still in the process of Creating.
A never ending fountain of Spirit being poured out into more and more dense receptacles of manifestation.
I would use the word "density" rather than intensity. We are in a plane where it and we have become so dense that we no longer see or hear.
And that is the goal. To begin to see and hear and begin our journey back to Spirit.
That is the Qabalah.
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Bob, great correlation between my posts and yours. I see what you are saying and we are of the same knowing
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Nu Lang wrote:
Bob, great correlation between my posts and yours. I see what you are saying and we are of the same knowing
"I love it when a plan comes together!"
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Yes, and I am a strong believer that even though we, each of us, may have different approaches, we can align when we are connected in our link in the nagual.
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Bob May wrote:What if it is not speaking of "time" at all, but by using the passage of
time allegorically,
I kind of assume that, whenever I read anything about 'time'. Since time is just a fabrication.
Nice convo everyone.
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Enchantra wrote:
Bob May wrote:
What if it is not speaking of "time" at all, but by using the passage of time allegorically,
I kind of assume that, whenever I read anything about 'time'. Since time is just a fabrication.
Nice convo everyone.
Hi Enchantra,
I'm glad we are on the same page. Time is real on this plane, no doubt about it. If my timing is off when walking across a street I may very well become "grill meat" on some passing garbage truck.
But it works differently in other planes. I just had a dream the other night which turned out to be prophetic. It was very symbolic and hard to understand, until two days later my son told me something that I was not aware of and the dream apparently about that subject. The subject is not important but I'm talking about a "peek" into the future.
So, though Time seems "absolute" on the earth plane, (and it is, it can be measured to millionths of a second), this little peek into the future tells me something different about how time works in the mental/soul level. It worked differently.
So using Time as an allegorical tool, Spirit was teaching me something.
Things work appropriate to the plane they are on.
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Lu 8:5
A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.
Lu 8:6
And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.
Lu 8:7
And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it.
Lu 8:8
And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Lu 8:9
And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be?
Lu 8:10
And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
Lu 8:11
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
Lu 8:12
Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
Lu 8:13
They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Lu 8:14
And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
Lu 8:15
But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
Lu 8:16
No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on a candlestick, that they which enter in may see the light.
Lu 8:17
For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.
Mr 4:13
And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
Hi all,
I was thinking about this allegory thing and this is what hit me this morning,
It is interesting that Jesus says that he is giving his disciples the key meanings in the parable above. Semantics. This word means this and that word means that etc.,
Then he says he is giving them the "keys" to the "Mysteries."
Now what are the "the Mysteries" he is speaking of? He says he is giving them the power to decipher All Parables and the Mysteries and yet, all parables don't have to do with seeds and sowers etc.,
It is Allegory itself that he is teaching them. That is what is not given to the world. And it is not just the key to deciphering the written word, but ALL Mysteries.
Lu 8:17
For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.
He leaves it to us to find out what means what, but everything means something not apparent.
We are to learn to read this book of life on our own.
But by listening and watching even those meanings are given to us as we go through life.
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Hi Bob,
I am not so sure we are exactly on the same page... Close though maybe. I do see things
A bit differently regarding time. However, its great you were able to get a glimpse into the
"Future" in dreaming. I love it when that happens. Have a good day
Bob May wrote:Enchantra wrote:
Bob May wrote:
What if it is not speaking of "time" at all, but by using the passage of time allegorically,
I kind of assume that, whenever I read anything about 'time'. Since time is just a fabrication.
Nice convo everyone.
Hi Enchantra,
I'm glad we are on the same page. Time is real on this plane, no doubt about it. If my timing is off when walking across a street I may very well become "grill meat" on some passing garbage truck.
But it works differently in other planes. I just had a dream the other night which turned out to be prophetic. It was very symbolic and hard to understand, until two days later my son told me something that I was not aware of and the dream apparently about that subject. The subject is not important but I'm talking about a "peek" into the future.
So, though Time seems "absolute" on the earth plane, (and it is, it can be measured to millionths of a second), this little peek into the future tells me something different about how time works in the mental/soul level. It worked differently.
So using Time as an allegorical tool, Spirit was teaching me something.
Things work appropriate to the plane they are on.
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Time in an interesting topic...perhaps we should start a thread about it?
http://sorcery.yuku.com/topic/3014/master/1/
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