3rd Attenion and Burning from within

[Sedna]

A shaman's death would, in the context of these forums, ordinarily mean a death of the personality. Although, it is unclear as many who have claimed this still have their personality. That said, the loss of personality comes (technically speaking) from a widening of awareness. Those who use drugs tend to come closest to this. The death of personality comes when one widens one's awareness until they get that this is all so meaningless, that they are meaningless, that a person is left without any volition to have or create a personality...it is just gone. Reinvention would mean that one did not reach the state where volition shuts down. But, I guess, this is just one more of those things that you would have to describe for me so I could know more clearly what it is you are meaning.

[Guest]

Sometimes a Shaman's death can simply be death of an aspect of our personality.  So we still have some of our personality in tact, though we emerge, renewed re-born as a different person in the same body.  Still a personality -- but a new person.  Much is shed and left behind. 
I would say that the more times we experience this death, the more likely we are to eventually shed all our personalities, at least as much as we can while still living and breathing as humans (sort-of).

[Bob May]

Man is body, soul and spirit.
First attention the body attention is one every man agrees on. We get glimses of second attention here.
Second attention is when our third eye or Seeing begins to happen. It is not a pleasant experience. Sorcerer's World. We get glimses of third attention here.
Third attention is Clarity.
There is one Baptism. It has three aspects. Spirit has three aspects symbolised by the three Hebrew letters Mem M, Aleph A, and Shin Sh.
These symbolise Water, Air and Fire respectively.
The First Baptism, is Water. Symbolised by the Flood story in the bible. We are lifted above humanity and the Earth To see from a higher vantage point. This is "Stopping the World." The Flood is when reaffirmations become constant. We open the window (third eye) in the ark and let out a crow (negative experiences). Then we let out a dove (a glimse of air which we will be moving into next) The dove returns with an olive branch. (a glimse of the fire or third stage of baptism. The olive branch produces olives which are crushed to produce olive oil to burn in lamps.)
The Second Baptism is Air. For me this was the vision of Jacob's Ladder/Coat of Many Colors. a column of living light with all the colors of the rainbow only More Color. It came down from above and went through me and into the earth and kept going. there were flames licking me up and down and through me. Like butterflies. The colors of the Bands of light were Pink in the middle, changing but staying in shades of pink. See Don Juan's description of the Great Bands of Emanation. It felt like love. Don Juan said in his description that the religious man would say that the Great Bands were the love of God and that the man of knowledge and the religious man were really saying the same thing.
The flames were a "glimse" of what was to come.
The Third baptism is Fire. For me it was while I was in deep meditation. An Energy came down from high above and my feet began to heat up. A sound started building in my head and both heat and sound grew as the heat traveled up my legs. It got so hot and the sound so loud that I knew that if I did not get out of my body one or the other the heat (burn me up) or the sound (tear me apart) would destroy me. I got out of my body through the top of my head and was grabbed and pulled up at great speed to a very high place. I was without a body spread out in an ocean of bluish white liquid lightening. Like a lightning bolt but not a bolt, an ocean that went in every direction forever.
The sound was tremendous but after getting myself calmed, it became ecstasy. I was feeling what it was feeling.
This was a glimse of what was to come. This actually happened First, before the Coat experience. This confused me for so long. It was the beginning of a PROCESS that has been working within me ever since.
The Baptism is ONE. The word formed by the three letters, Mem, Aleph and Shin is FIRE.
Baptism is a cleansing of wrong thinking. It is the process by which we are enabled to SEE REALITY.
I am beginning to experience the Clarity which is the Third Attention.

[Guest]

Bob May wrote:
I am beginning to experience the Clarity which is the Third Attention.

Can you explain what you mean by this, please?

[lex icon]

There are two attentions that one can readily experience in their daily life.  The human and the soul.  The human contends itself with the daily affairs and the human journey.  It has emotions and an ego.  It is the navigator of its ship.  And then there is the soul, that contends itself with one's spiritual journey which often has nothing to do with one's daily journey.  The human is the doer and the soul the observer.  My description is probably piss poor, and for that I am sorry, but hopefully it is sufficient enough for you to get the picture.  If you are following so far, if you can see this in yourself, then the next step is to realize that you toggle between the two of these with ease.  First and second attention.  Sedna
Third attention is what you get when you die.  Or, when you have a near death experience.  It is not available to you will in your human body.  But it includes a knowledge of your soul.  Who you are, not as a human, but as a soul.  And a knowledge of the world in which your soul lives.  It contains no knowledge of your human or your human journey.  Just as one cannot enter third attention while alive...one cannot enter first attention while dead.  Sedna
Sedna there is just so much speculation here in your words.
IF “Third attention is what you get when you die.  Or, when you have a near death experience.  It is not available to you while in your human body.”
THEN HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THE FOLLOWING.... “But it includes a knowledge of your soul.  Who you are, not as a human, but as a soul.  And a knowledge of the world in which your soul lives.  It contains no knowledge of your human or your human journey.”????????????
How did you gain so much knowledge about what the 3rd attention knows?

[lex icon]

Bob,
Nicely put. However I would see clarity as an aspect, related more to the removal of what obscures in the first place.

[lex icon]

Wow, don't know how to touch this. You are describing death or near death very keenly, Lex.  In hindsight what died in you and what became energized thereafter?  When you say you had a split perception of being "there". Where was "there "? Ninth
No I am not “describing death or near death”.  Death would have been preferable to that energy drained state. (which itself was a portend of something in my future (recent) which I will speak of at some point, though, indirectly).
What was drained of energy? This experience of a fictional self, soul, that was formed almost entirely by blind affiliation and attachment to external processes none of which had an independent reality of their own.
To say that I was filled with energy and power is imprecise though it certainly felt that way.  The kind of energy and power that is not based upon the fiction described above is present in all places at the same time, here, there, everywhere, nowhere.
It cannot be said that I exist neither can it be said that I do not exist. “Whether in the body or out the body I cannot say”.
Where was "there”? Ninth
 The realm of the unassailable. It is close at hand! Make a left on Ninth you will see it.

[Bob May]

Enchantra wrote:
Bob May wrote:

I am beginning to experience the Clarity which is the Third Attention.

Can you explain what you mean by this, please?

Lex said,
Nicely put. However I would see clarity as an aspect, related more to the removal of what obscures in the first place.
Lex is correct here.
The clarity of which I am speaking is the Realization that God is speaking.  And I have not been listening.
What Lex is trying to say cannot be said. He is speaking about Nothing. Because the Things that need to be removed are what God speaks with. The things of Manifestation. Listen to what Lex is Not saying.
If I said that the Blue-White Lightning was God, I would be wrong. Same with the Coat of many colors.
The Eagle is a Guardian on the Path.
The Path is the Realization. There is no Path.
Literal, Implied, Allegorical, Mystical. These are the levels of interpreting Scripture. These are also the levels of interpreting Reality.
There is no interpretation in the forth level.

[Nu Lang]

One needs to silence the internal dialog. Then the accumulation ushers in a new state, a state of inner silence. The reason is, the dialog was 'put there' it did not belong. So for it to no longer be given energy and focus, it disintegrates, at first gradually and then a sudden swoop. Then its gone. And there is no way to get it back the way it was unless you intend it so (and you don't want it back anyway). At first, you didn't have the choice so it was always what you knew. This knowing made it seem like it was 'you' becasue it was always there for as long as you can remember, and there would have been no way to even consider otherwise if not for the knock of the spirit. But the spirit cannot just remove the obstacle, you have to exercise your intent again and again, and overwhelm with repetition to undo what was done.

[Bob May]

Nu Lang wrote:

One needs to silence the internal dialog. Then the accumulation ushers in a new state, a state of inner silence. The reason is, the dialog was 'put there' it did not belong. So for it to no longer be given energy and focus, it disintegrates, at first gradually and then a sudden swoop. Then its gone. And there is no way to get it back the way it was unless you intend it so (and you don't want it back anyway). At first, you didn't have the choice so it was always what you knew. This knowing made it seem like it was 'you' becasue it was always there for as long as you can remember, and there would have been no way to even consider otherwise if not for the knock of the spirit. But the spirit cannot just remove the obstacle, you have to exercise your intent again and again, and overwhelm with repetition to undo what was done.



Mt 12:43
When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.




Mt 12:44
Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.




Mt 12:45
Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.


 When I say Baptism I am not speaking about a ceremony.


Lu 3:16
John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost (Spirit) and with fire:


To stop the internal dialog begins with an act of intent. Discipline.
If you are fortunate to achieve the goal of stopping the world you will become aware that there exists another world "behind" the the world you are accustomed to living in.


Lu 19:40
And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.



Don Juan said that the trick of the man of knowledge was to realize that this world too was illusion. And to slip between the worlds.
To rid ourselves of the Junk that keeps us from that further opening of our awareness requires a further cleansing of first Air (Spirit) and Fire (Spirit.)
We are incapable of this. It is only Spirit that can make us ready for the deeper journey. And only Fire that can cleanse us entirely.

[Guest]

Bob May wrote:Naga wrote:
May I interact on this matter? If personal experience is a mixture of the unique tonal of an individual plus the specific way to connect with the nagual (that res cogitata which canno as well be "cogitata" ex definitio) I could also make another hypothesis: once gone into the nagual, i could return back maybe re-connecting to another specific interaction of tonal and nagual. How this could happen i ignore.
What do you think?
regards,
NagaTry that again in English, Naga.

Hi Bod. ^^
Except for few latin words i used It seems to me that my thought was about clear.
If it was not, please specify WHAT WAS NOT CLEAR TO YOU, or i should think that your one was only a presumption shot of superiority.
I also asked if i could interact into this discussion.
regards,
Naga

[Bob May]

Naga wrote:
Bob May wrote:
Naga wrote:

May I interact on this matter? If personal experience is a mixture of the unique tonal of an individual plus the specific way to connect with the nagual (that res cogitata which canno as well be "cogitata" ex definitio) I could also make another hypothesis: once gone into the nagual, i could return back maybe re-connecting to another specific interaction of tonal and nagual. How this could happen i ignore.
What do you think?
regards,
NagaTry that again in English, Naga.

Hi Bod. ^^
Except for few latin words i used It seems to me that my thought was about clear.
If it was not, please specify WHAT WAS NOT CLEAR TO YOU, or i should think that your one was only a presumption shot of superiority.
I also asked if i could interact into this discussion.
regards,
Naga

Hi Naga,
No personal shot, no superiority.
I honestly did not understand your statements.

I understand personal experience being the "lense" through which we connect with Spirit.
I never studied Latin, so I don't understand that part.
I think I understand the part about going into the nagual and then re-examining past experiences in this light. These past tonal/nagual experiences would be seen in a whole new context. 
I agree whole-heartedly. We get revelations on the same subject over and over again.
I do not understand your statement, "How this could happen, I ignore."
Maybe you meant to write; "How this could happen, I don't understand." Maybe you could make this clearer.
Of course you may interact with this conversation. Welcome!!!

[ninth octave]

Naga wrote:

May I interact on this matter? If personal experience is a mixture of the unique tonal of an individual plus the specific way to connect with the nagual (that res cogitata which canno as well be "cogitata" ex definitio) I could also make another hypothesis: once gone into the nagual, i could return back maybe re-connecting to another specific interaction of tonal and nagual. How this could happen i ignore.
What do you think?
regards,
Naga
   Greetings Naga,
I hope to understand the way of the nagual and tonal through interaction. Its like watching  how a teacher begins to really connect to a student who is on a different level. The teacher goes into the nagual realm  and re-presents another perception that instantaneously opens the student's mind. The teacher does not draw attention to the "how" of the way it happens.  
Ninth

[Intentwielder]

The lighting up of all the elements of one's energy body, sounds like a perfectly practical task to me. I see no reason why this cannot be done while still in a physical body. Intuition and experience says that this act would require a great deal of energy to accomplish. It would also require significant self knowledge and high mastery of intent. To intend, (manifest) something externally is one thing, but to intend such a transformation upon ones' self is quite another. Not only would the practitioner be transforming their "luminous" self, they would in effect be intending themselves into a higher state of consciousness. One might even call that, "the intent to gain a higher level of intent". The hand that lifts up is also the thing that is lifted...tricky business.

[messengerpidgeon]

The hand lifting " writing " as the body moves
So does
The availability , the "concentric circles"
Weaving , the conception being the " hooks"

The hooks being the mastery of " intent"

Connection of "intent" maintaining

Truth of intent
Maintaining it being listening with " being "

Action
Truth of being

The truth the light the way .all one in the same .
Sharing that creation forming a ground for
Higher " intent" or being , shared . Or rugged roads .
It comes
It
Goes. I find difficult situations
Give " relief"

Big clearings .
In smoke .

[straightlines]

Hey! Wanker! You haven't burned with anything other than your own self-righteousness. Stop pestering people with your exalted imaginary claims to knowledge.

[messengerpidgeon]

Sure . Whatever you say . Its your universe

[messengerpidgeon]

Tell us all about it then ?

[messengerpidgeon]

Finally somebody who will speak directly . Lets have a direct chat ?

[Guest]