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^ Adding to that, I wanted to add that people tend to con themselves. My main interest in sorting out the essential common experiences shared in NDEs there is alot of story people add to their experience. Although it has the same effect in misdirecting one, it is done benignly...as their effort to make sense of what happened. I see the same usefulness in stripping those recountings of the story and getting to the basic elements. I dont think that Castaneda made up a story to hurt people or take advantage of them...I think he sincerely wanted to get his knowledge out there. I see nothing wrong with that.
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Ravenmoon wrote  iamond Unicorn wrote:I've spent years just assuming Castaneda was telling the truth, I have only recently been exploring the idea seriously that he could have fabricated the whole thing. Its not an issue to be so lightly dismissed if you care at all about the essence and true nature of the 'teachings of don Juan', imo.
A follower of the teachings can consider it as an exercise in the 'art of stalking' or 'controlled folly'.
This is an interesting comment DU. The last sentence gives it a complexity, a paradox of sorts. Maybe by the stalking, one would arrive at the essence of the truth, beyond all the trickery. One truth being that stalking and controlled folly are effective maneuvers that bring results in enhancing ones awareness. This would indicate value in the teachings and framework he laid down.
Were you aware of this when you wrote it? Or is it as Bob Ross says "a happy little accident"?
http://sorcery.yuku.com/s...-is-quot-La-Aguila-quot-
I was aware of something...
Its like a clause that allows or gives license to explore such a topic under the framework of the paradigm even-though the topic questions the very foundation of the paradigm...
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Ravenmoon wrote iamond Unicorn wrote:
A follower of the teachings can consider it as an exercise in the 'art of stalking' or 'controlled folly'.
This is an interesting comment DU. The last sentence gives it a complexity, a paradox of sorts.
Were you aware of this when you wrote it? Or is it as Bob Ross says "a happy little accident"?
Yeah, whoa! I an barely wrap my head around that. Followers of books and teachings that were lies can look at the lies themselves as examples of the lies they sold as teachings? Yeesh!
In other words, if the books were lies, and the teachings, then how could the art of stalking or controlled folly be real practices? Hmmmmm
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DU, your link made me smile...thanks
I think Carlos himself would agree with your recommendation..that followers of the books use the framework to test the paradigm. In your example it was stalking and controlled folly...also there is erasing personal history, recapping, not doing...etc etc. He used Genaro as an example when he wrote about Genaro standing on his head when Carlos got too "academic' in his explanation or inquiries. Or Genaro used to write with his finger, mimicking Carlos's notetaking...he told Carlos he was a man of action.
I felt in many places I read, Carlos was wanting the reader to act more than think about what was said. The thinking aspect is important as I see it, but with nagualism, if you are not having experiences prior to the books, then you must certainly take action at some point as reading the words does not erase your personal history nor would reading a chapter on controlled folly make you able to do it the next day. His books are very interesting reads and the repetition caused many things he wrote to become saturated in the readers awareness and a momentum could be built up over time...but still, without action, I don't see how readers with no prior experience to back it up could get it by reading alone (and btw, I happen to believe that virtually every reader would have 'some' kind of prior experience that drew then to read his work...).
And not just any action is enough...it would take sincere and repeated action. Just like ...you can take piano lessons, but you sincerely have to dedicate your practice to become good...but yeah, there are those like Mozart who are born already with the natural ability too, but they are rarer.
Do I think he lied or made up Don Juan and others? No, I feel he reported his experiences.
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SB, my post to DU actually answers your question...I don't view the books as lies, nor did I see where DU concluded it was lies (he said he was exploring the idea, but not made up his mind yet as I saw it), so I was basing my statements on this understanding...that he presented a paradox, that actually lent support to the foundation.
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Ravenmoon wrote:SB, my post to DU actually answers your question...I don't view the books as lies, nor did I see where DU concluded it was lies (he said he was exploring the idea, but not made up his mind yet as I saw it), so I was basing my statements on this understanding...that he presented a paradox, that actually lent support to the foundation.
Yeah, I get y ou totally Ravenmoon, wasn't asking a question, just making fun with words.
One thing I feel that we need to point out here, too hasn't really been mentioned yet. The Works of CC are certainly not for everyone. He wrote for a certain audience and so some people may well pick up the books and get nothing out of them or try, try, try and not get results so come to the conclusion that CC sold lies. My answer to that would be that if the books didn't speak to you and you got nothing out of them and felt lied to and betrayed., then Carlos wasn't speaking to you, you were not his intended audience.
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Armando Torres: Encounters with Nagual.
You are either practicing lucid dreaming/dreaming, or you are not nagualist practitioner. Nothing else.
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scout1 wrote:
Armando Torres: Encounters with Nagual.
You are either practicing lucid dreaming/dreaming, or you are not nagualist practitioner. Nothing else.
That's one opinion.
Where does lucid dreaming get you? Really. I'm not saying it does or doesn't advance a warrior. Just curious why warriors assign such significance to lucid dreaming. It's a system of knowledge. Stalking. Dreaming. All things in balance.
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quantumshaman wrote:
That's one opinion.
Where does lucid dreaming get you? Really. I'm not saying it does or doesn't advance a warrior. Just curious why warriors assign such significance to lucid dreaming. It's a system of knowledge. Stalking. Dreaming. All things in balance.
We can use lucid dreaming to improve the quality of our waking life and gain awareness! In short, we can overcome things in a lucid dream easier than in real life, as there are no boundaries. We can do healings so the benefits of that are obvious. Dress rehearsals of every day events are also possible and very beneficial in lucid dreams. The mind's creative process and ability to problem solve are greatly heightened in lucid dreaming. And bigger than all of those things perhaps, merging the attentions or as some would call it -- Transcendence
From the Lucidity Institute:
The experience of being in a lucid dream clearly demonstrates the astonishing fact that the world we see is a construct of our minds. This concept, so elusive when sought in waking life, is the cornerstone of spiritual teachings. It forces us to look beyond everyday experience and ask, "If this is not real, what is?" Lucid dreaming, by so baldly baring a truth that many spend lives seeking, often triggers spiritual questioning in people who try it for far more mundane purposes. Not only does lucid dreaming lead to questioning the nature of reality, but for many it also has been a source of transcendent experience. Exalted and ecstatic states are common in lucid dreams. EWLD (CLICK HERE) presents several cases of individuals achieving states of union with the Highest, great peace and a new sense of their roles in life.
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Castaneda s books are toxic. Spiritual toxin.
Real life or fantasy woo-woo.
Torres s book is much better. The books are prose, fairy tales.
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scout1 wrote:
Castaneda s books are toxic. Spiritual toxin.
Real life or fantasy woo-woo.
Torres s book is much better. The books are prose, fairy tales.
The only things I've encountered in this world that are spiritually toxic are religion and politics.
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quantumshaman wrote  cout1 wrote:
Castaneda s books are toxic. Spiritual toxin.
Real life or fantasy woo-woo.
Torres s book is much better. The books are prose, fairy tales.
The only things I've encountered in this world that are spiritually toxic are religion and politics.
and Materialistic science. But religion and politics are not all bad, perhaps perception is skewed due to humanity as a whole right now are still at an immature level of civilization... religions can be good or evil, dont look at only the negative aspects and pronounce it so (also some simply have a stigma attached to the word 'religion' and do not use a less biased definition)...
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Diamond Unicorn wrote:
quantumshaman wrote:
scout1 wrote:
Castaneda s books are toxic. Spiritual toxin.
Real life or fantasy woo-woo.
Torres s book is much better. The books are prose, fairy tales.
The only things I've encountered in this world that are spiritually toxic are religion and politics.
...and Materialistic science.
But religion and politics are not all bad, perhaps perception is skewed due to humanity as a whole right now are still at an immature level of civilization... religions can be good or evil, dont look at only the negative aspects and pronounce it so
(also some simply have a stigma attached to the word 'religion' and do not use a less biased definition)...
All politics and most religions are essentially tools of the foreign installation, so by a sorcerer's definition, they're certainly not good. For the record, I would define "religion" as anything that encourages someone to place their "faith" in an extant deity, in the hope/belief that it is going to magnanimously "save" them. Most religions do have aspects that are inspirational, but by and large any ORGANIZED religion is rooted in Man, not in "god".
And, yes, I would agree with you that materialistic science is just as fundamentally detrimental as politics and religion.
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Diamond Unicorn wrote:
I absolutely get your point but I disagree with your conclusion that it 'doesn't matter' or its irrelevant.
It matters simply because there is a difference between truth and fantasy, and anyone who loves the truth will want to know the truth!
There is a difference between a piece of fiction that may 'reflect truth' or be inspiring and between a real and valid account of actual spiritual experiences and teachings;
QS: Believing that "Jesus saves" or "Don Juan lives" or "Castaneda lied"... all these things are irrelevant, BECAUSE they are only beliefs - and in the big picture, "belief" is as worthless as tits on a bull.
Not exactly... there is a big difference between believing in something that is actually true in universe reality and believing in something that was made up in someone's imagination.
You are seeing this from a limited perspective.
You have an experience...like breathing air, it feels a certain way to you. One day you read a book about breathing air...maybe a yoga book that says to hold the side of your hand over and closing your left nostril and breathe that way. You try it and have an experience. Maybe you get more energy and alertness like the author told you that you would. So you incorpprate this into your life and maybe begin your day this way. Maybe one day you want to find more exercises like this one so you search the net. You search for the author. One of the links is a site that says the author was a liar, a womanizer and a con-man. What did any of that have to do with your experience of energy and alertness?
Maybe you are stupid like me and ask them what it has to do with anything...and they reply that you are stupid and taken in by a cult and only they can save you. You scratch your head some more and ask again what any of that has to do with anything.
It is nice to know that I am not the only one who doesn't give a **** about the details of CCs life. There is something to explore you black and white thinkers...why is it that it is comforting to find out one isn't the only one to think something? Castaneda gave some information. Yeah, sure alot of it was ****...however, there were some gems. Upright christian soldiers dont have a monopoly on gems of knowledge...sometimes womanizing, intense misfits have some too. The point is obtaining the gem for yourself and being able to leave the rest without getting caught up in the bs. People use those gems to improve their lives. You sound like someone who wouldnt pick up the hope diamond if it was in the dirt. Others feel who cares if it is in the dirt...its the hope diamond! You sound like someone chastising people because they have dirt on their hands...however, I can wash my hands.
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quantumshaman wrote cout1 wrote:
Castaneda s books are toxic. Spiritual toxin.
Real life or fantasy woo-woo.
Torres s book is much better. The books are prose, fairy tales.
The only things I've encountered in this world that are spiritually toxic are religion and politics.
Nice answer QS...love it!
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Nagual LoneWolf wrote:
quantumshaman wrote:
scout1 wrote:
Castaneda s books are toxic. Spiritual toxin.
Real life or fantasy woo-woo.
Torres s book is much better. The books are prose, fairy tales.
The only things I've encountered in this world that are spiritually toxic are religion and politics.
Nice answer QS...love it!
I said the same thing on another forum and basically got crucified. LOL. Guess I'm in good company.
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quantumshaman wrote:Nagual LoneWolf wrote:
quantumshaman wrote:
The only things I've encountered in this world that are spiritually toxic are religion and politics.
Nice answer QS...love it!
I said the same thing on another forum and basically got crucified. LOL. Guess I'm in good company.
I like both the form of the post and the content
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>The only things I've encountered in this world that are spiritually toxic are religion and politics.
Amen, brother!
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Ravenmoon wrote:Welcome bluehat!
Thanks, Ravenmoon!
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spiritual toxin
http://egina2.blogspot.co...of-carlos-castaneda.html
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scout1 wrote:
spiritual toxin
http://egina2.blogspot.co...of-carlos-castaneda.html
To quote the vampire Lestat...
"Evil is a point of view."
When someone takes it upon themselves to start assigning such labels, what it really says is that the reviewer didn't agree with Castaneda and can't find a LOGICAL argument, so must resort to emotional vandalism. The next step is usually angry villagers with pitchforks, wanting to "Burn the witch!"
There is no good or evil, only power. (To quote my own double, and Voldemort... hehheh)
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Hi
I've been away for awhile.
I never found Castaneda's, or any other books, including religious texts, to be toxic. At least, once I learned to not ingest them , wholly.
I have found wisdom in the most inconsequential media, if only a sentence in 10,000 words, or a word in two hours of film.
Anne Rice did a good job of making us empathize with predators and parasites. Sometimes they have their blessings. But evil, as such, is not just a point of view, unless one thinks that, to coin a phrase, despoiling the nest, is a good idea. Maybe not evil, perhaps, just stupid and foul.
Why would a sane being **** in its bed and try to sleep in it? That has been the way of humanity since the beginning. I'd throw them out of Eden , too.
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I never found Castaneda's, or any other books, including religious texts, to be toxic. At least, once I learned to not ingest them , wholly.
It is very good not to injest any texts, period! Even mine! I hesitate to pose here. Knowledge comes from experiencing. You always learn from from the **** too. Evils view is just as real as anyone can make any other point of perspective valid to themselves. As you quote, hawkeye Crow - there is indeed only power. Evil intent (good reference are the biblical sins) is rotten, evil powers.
Hmm!! Filling your head with anothers "facts" only, can surely make one insane! I even know of a man personally who lost his marbles from too much involvement in the concreteness of Carlos' experiences, but in the end I think losing his marbles will be best for him
However - I have found "CCs" stories of the shaman Don Juan to have certain details in common with other human beings experiences globally, including my own! His stories are excellent material to losen up a persons perspective (true or not it really doesnt matter and not worth debating at all, I think), and direct it elsewhere. Its like miracle grow. Then again, influence and our attentions involvement is powerful and bad for fledglings.
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Experience is the utmost,
and reading a book IS an experience!
and if the book was composed with an immaculate impeccable intent or the authors were imbued with 'Power', then the potential for that reading experience is magnified...
it also depends on the reader,
how receptive they are to potential wisdom captured within a book's matrix of the written word...
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