Small discovery of the dreamhackers

[bluedreamer]

It would be cool if you posted the lessons here, if you do I hope they are in Russian and english. : )

[hdoll]

Thanks, fellows.

[ARNWAY]

Hello hdoll, I do not want to come across as being aggressive but I wanted to ask a few questions from you because I feel this is really important to everyone
here on this site and for the record I really appreciate your input and knowledge that you offer and please do not consider this as a attack on your being.




I wanted to ask you of the group of dream hackers that you have mentioned if they had the intent and direction of freedom to open up perception?




Were they directed by someone to fulfill a particular objective to direct ones dreaming awareness?




The group that you were involved with (Dream Hackers) if they were for freedom, what would you best describe there description of freedom would be?




The proposal that you mentioned as to get potential dreamers involved, what is your objective?




hdoll please try not to get offended by my questions but this must be asked because nobody can take anything for granted.




This analogy that I will give might put things in perspective and this is when we wanted to have a place to meet in dreaming and everyone wanted to meet at a
temple or religious spot and I put a block to such a consideration because I know that such places are meant to avoid this activity.

[hdoll]

ARNWAY




Probably, I will disappoint you. I and the dreamhackers are free from any religious persuasions - including from that of the religion of freedom, which you
found in the words the don Juan. I mean that there is a difference between a freedom and the religion of freedom. Respecting the freedom of other people, I
never will evaluate their actions according to some diagrams and classifications of freedom. For the man, who preaches the religion of freedom, is important
this positioning.




The call of unknown is more immediate for me. I like to chase for new knowledge, to find my limitations and sly methods for their overcoming. In such game
are to operate only two - I with my barriers of perception, and I, which overcoming these barriers. Probably, someone would be named this as the
schizophrenia. Probably, someone would be named this as the finding of freedom. I think, this is my fate on the way to knowledge.






What does force me to divide by my findings with other people? Of course, this feeling own importance. I for long fought with it and it is finally alien
to the agreement. As if I create mythical personality - Ravenna - which transfers the knowledge of dreamhackers. Really my true personality remains out
of the glory, out of boiling of feelings. This life is simple as 2 X 2. It's the hacker trick which uses a transfer of knowledge as the method of
deliverance from own importance.




What is my objective? Each my training is a game with the Spirit. I propose the part of the unknown to express itself during my training - to express in
such a way that the people, which participate in this action, would also obtain the strong and impressive experience of contact with the Spirit. My
purpose, in essence, consists in interaction with the Spirit. The game does not occur without it.






I will say to you more than this. When I begin each new training, I do not know, as it will pass and how it will end. Now I know two or three first
motions, which will allow me to introduce the indescribable element of uncertainty into game. Further everything will go spontaneously. Everything will
depend on people which participate in the training. From their desires, the intentions, the thirst of knowledge. You can consider me as the door into
which the Spirit knock. The purpose of door is be a passage of one space into another.






But I please you not to be caught to this comparison and not to get on your estimation from the prospect for the religion of freedom. Castaneda wrote
that each man obtains its cubic centimeter of chance. Sometimes Ravenna is the living embodiment of this cubic centimeter. How will use this chance
by people, depends on them themselves and on you in particular.

[ARNWAY]

hdoll you have my blessings to do as you wish because it is not up to me to judge with your quest.




As a warrior you should state without deception if there is inorganic beings involved with your lessons of what you are proposing as to not get members into
something that they did not want or anticipate.




As far as history goes of what you referred to I'm writing a book about the same thing that you mentioned and would gladly elaborate of my study since it
is my passion.




One more question to you are you from the new seers approach or the old seers approach and also is there a group of people that try and manipulate ones
dreaming awareness with dreaming?-----------------------------------




Whatever your response is is fine by me and do what you want but I feel must be revealed from the "get-go" of your intentions with such a quest.




To each there own

[hdoll]

Thanks ARNWAY. You gave one interesting idea to me. All around much speak about the inorganics. Someone talk that man cannot collect sufficiently energy
without them. Someone writes that inorganics are satanic essences. I do think that if I do show these inorganics for the participants in the training? In
order to fear wolves, it must at least once see one living wolf, right? In order to compose opinion about a question, you must at least once have personal
experience in this theme. Thanks for the idea.




A. on Q.:


I do not belong to the tradition, described by Castaneda. Therefore I with respect relate to new and old seers.

[ARNWAY]

when it comes to inorganics I do know what I'm talking about as you can read of one of many posts that I have made.




http://sorcery.yuku.com/topic/1525




Here is another example of my knowledge of dreaming as far as wlking the walk.--------------------------------http://sorcery.yuku.com/topic/1714

[Psychonaut]

hdoll wrote:


But you must accept into the calculation that in the case of training to the forum LoneWolf will be brought down the invasion of new uers.



(первыйнах!)


We are already here. ;-)

[ARNWAY]

I will make this clear as possible and that is this --If people or members here on this site want to get involved in the Russian dreaming group then it is
their ass or fate but for me you are unclear of your intent with your dreaming practices I personally do not want anything to do with your Russian government
funded takeover of dreaming members in any shape or form and I say this from my personal stance I can not speak for anybody else but myself.




I'm not talking about religious dialog because I never have if you ever read my posts since I consider my self a connoisseur of history of matters that we
talk about and for the record my father was considered a doctorate in this matter of discussion with his book and the one that I'm going to write and your
response to me , treating me like I'm ignorant on this topic only tells me that you are hiding something since you are from the Balkings and the Russian
dreaming group has a bad "Reputation" as far as dreaming "Dominance" that even the government is behind this.




Tell me if I'm wrong?

[ARNWAY]

I'm trying to be objective here but please explain this hypnotic mess that you posted and what does it really mean.

hdoll wrote----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


#19 [-]


Member
Posts: 66
(08/27/09 15:20:37)
ReplyQuoteMore
My Recent PostsMessage MeConnectionBlockingInviteIgnore User's Posts "Many posts removed under the guidelines of spam.

If you wonder what happened to a proposed training of the dreamhackers - this is why it has been removed. Showing extreme disrespect to the admin, and spamming the training to take place somewhere else - it has been decided to remove the whole conversation from the point that this person entered the thread. She also is not here on LD4all anymore, neither will the training take place here. ~Q~
"

The two day before I asked moderator Yasim to create for me the usergroup, where I could conduct my training. Obviously, he discussed this with its associates. The day before another moderator arrived into the theme "dreamhackers" and left communication for me. He wrote that we, Russians, must carry out their trainings on the Russian forums and not
disfigure English by our dull communications. He also said that never allow me to conduct training on this forum. I answered him, writing that he disrupts the rules of forum - a point about the usergroups. I also wrote that the discrimination of people according to the national sign never brought no one of great happiness. Then I wrote to people, which desired to participate in the training, that I will select another place and as one of the possibilities, was indicated forum LoneWolf.

I think that I know the thoughts of this moderator. You understand that in Russia I am living legend. When people learned that I want to conduct a training on the English forum, thousands of desiring youths and girls began to request the account on the forum. Probably, a moderators frightened possible DOS-attack. What suddenly all these Russians, after obtaining the accounts, would simultaneously distribute on the forum its communications? The forum hang out! It would be possible to destroy. This is how thought moderators, surely.

To me it is offensive only that this youth pervert proved to be such cowardly and did not indicate the true reasons for my expulsion. But this reasons are simple: I and the majorities of people, which desired training, are not Englishmen. You do know that now they do speak in Russia about this forum? Very bad words.

It's a chat's log from the LD4all forum (made by my friend):

I am a Russian bear. I came to teach you.
Grizzly, black or brown?
RusBear, i warn you, if it is that dreahackers spam, you will
also be banned
Brown
hi bear I'm here to learn from you
is live fair?
it applies to you too vtos
the dreamhackers school isn't welcome here anymore
...how come
you will be better off in your own place, where you can speak
your own language
I'm not a spammer
ravenna and tomlin are
They were here?
dreamhackers?
long story
Russian group of lucid dreamers.
its funny how i remember things in dreams that i forgott in live
and somethimes forgett in dreams what is clear to me in live...
Mean? Who is Ravenna?
* Zyphern is back from picking up his sister
*** jepeltw has quit (Quit: Leaving)
A representant of the Dreamhackers group
and who is tomlin
*** Normalno has joined #ld4all
*** Siiw sets mode +b on *!*@159.148.103.*
Hi All, HAO from Russia
*** LDT has quit (Quit: ~*~*~ bye! ~*~*~)
Normalno, the dreamhackers school has moved. You won't find it
here.
*** thegeek has joined #ld4all
hi, thegeek
*** solarus has joined #ld4all
Im not a dreamhackers.
Where are moved to a school?
RusBear, solarus, Normalno etc: apparently somebody has been
spamming this address on a russian forum. This is NOT a channel for
Ravenna and Tomlin's "school"
??-???????? ???-?????? spamming ???? ????? ?? ???????
??????. ??? ??? ?????? ??? Ravenna ? Tomlin' " s; school"
Translated with babelfish
I don't think they speak very good English.
Well, I'm going to bed
they use auromatic translators
automatic
hmm, the word "bed" looks like a bed.
Goodnight
We are not a school? we are Russian Dream Mafia, Maby you
Know us ?
*** antiego has quit (Quit: see ya)
lol im on their website now unfortuantly i dont speak russian
and the output is impossible to understand
*** Siiw sets mode +b on *!*@Chat4all-8EC39FC1.adsl.wplus.ru
*** Normalno has been kicked by Siiw (no russian mafia here)
*** Siiw sets mode +b on *!*@Chat4all-CF5037D5.pppoe.mtu-net.ru
*** solarus has been kicked by Siiw (Siiw)
*** Siiw sets mode +b on *!*@Chat4all-B1351DEB.vologda.ru
Cant you kickban?
i do
You forgot the kick. Sorry to be nosy or something.
*** RusBear has been kicked by Siiw (Siiw)
oops
thanks
hmm just read upwards, kind of humorous, the russian dream
mafia? they must be joking
*** Jasper has joined #ld4all
just let's hope this mafia doesn't get angry and start
botnet spamming
snap
the website looks very weird...kinda like a sect
Wonder if they were the culprits of last botnet attack
it is, mars
they talk about a world war etc
Does it even have to be a botnet? maybe they are large
enough of a group do just ddos
I have only been fighting one such attack, maybe a year
ago, where various expletives and "Penis" flowed free on the chat
Are there logs of that? xD
probably
There were literally hoardes of users joining from
different IP's from different countries, almost impossible to stop
altogether
brr
i think it ended with that we set the chat to +m mode for
a few days
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Come on hdoll don't give us this bullshit when you are proposing such a quest with members here.

What is your objective?

[hdoll]

ARNWAY


Don't worry!


Ravenna is out.

[Psychonaut]

ARNWAY, I think that true reason of your suspicions and distrust is that you don't belive that russians - can really have their own, strong and original
tradition. (Although even the word "shaman", as you may know, originates from Siberia, which is a part of Russia).




You may be afraid of "Russian government funded takeover of dreaming members". (Although hdoll, as you may see, live not in Russia but in Latvia,
which is a member of European Union, as you possibly know). But it's also true to say that in russian dreaming communities many people are afraid of mason
organisations (true or fictious) which controls english dreaming and esoteric forums. I don't know which of this fears have real reasons and which not.




But as for me, I think it's a good idea to exchange knowledge between russian and english speaking dreaming communities. Both of us have something to give
to one another, as I think. I took part in one of the Ravenna's trainings and I can say it's really great and it is a real magic. I think english
people will enjoy it as well. If you can read russian, you may see some materials of Ravenna's trainings which took place on aworld.ru (for example, this
one: http://aworld.ru/maska/forumsp6813.htm ), and you may make sure it's not a fraud.

[ARNWAY]

Its still the Balkans and and someone that I know is from Latvia and he is involved with the Russian Mafia in Chicago and when he started stealing things from
my house I told him he is not welcome in my house but in the time when he was welcome he told me allot of his life.

[hdoll]

What Balkans? What Russian Mafia? You crazy?




I do not understand why you insult me. Really my knowledge is such dangerous, that you, the pet of special services, everywhere search for me? I depart from
this forum. I please you, it is not necessarily for more insults. You gave sufficiently them. I hope that your so-called "the way of freedom" is
not usual chauvinism really.

[Hmur]

Dear LD4all - deliberately provoke you to get some clean dirt LD4all. In the most recent developments has been quite clear that LD4all -> Not4FreeDreamers.
In this trap, consider and build in a number of those who had the misfortune to believe fairy tales always hungry parasites.

[ARNWAY]

I was not talking about you hdoll but someone that I known that I used to be friends with that was from Latvia that got involved with the Russian organization
in Chicago.




Please don't take me out of context and please let me state that I'm not accusing you of anything as being the same of the person that used to be in my
house all the time years ago.




All that I'm saying is that Latvia was under the iron curtain years ago and was apart of Russian rule.

[ARNWAY]

hdoll read closely because I did not insult you at all but was referring to other things of people that I personally known that happened nothing to do with you
and before you assume anything you owe us a list of the things that I supposedly insulted you with.




Please illustrate my supposed insults to you before you go having a tantrum.

[bluedreamer]

well its too bad it had to come to this. I do not share arnways concerns about you being russian, what difference does that make? I don't think you are
russian mafia or spy. Too bad I didn't get the chance to see your teachings and decide for myself whether they were helpful to me personally. Arnway is
very concerned not to be involved with foriegn energy and it might have helped if you answered him in a direct manner, still arnway went overboard in my
opinion with the russian spy stuff etc, that doesn't have anything to do with being russian.

[Hmur]

Sorry - my first message begins with the words - Dear HDoll

[ARNWAY]

Let me set the record straight and look at my posts, I never said that hdoll was part of the Russian mafia.




Read it clearly because I was referring to someone that was around me in my house around 5 years ago that was in the Russian mafia and I never insinuated that
hdoll was, what I did state is that she is apart of the Russian dream hackers.




How hard is this for anybody to understand.




Get your facts straight before distorting what I said.

[Psychonaut]

ARNWAY, who or what can convince you that she is a part of the Russian dream hackers?

[ARNWAY]

Its from what she wrote about and wants to give lessons which is fine but I feel she has an obligation to tell everyone what the substance of her teachings are
as far as "Intent" and orgin of her teachings.




If hdoll can do this then I will not say another word about this.

[Mornings Son]

Hey Arnway


As I understand Hdoll see is saying that a great part of the way it goes in the training is given by Spirit.




Hdoll writes


Friends! I plan to conduct training in the English. This training will be dedicated to the passage of the 2nd gates of dreaming.

But the metode of the teaching is not so clear to me. I would like that part clarified, please.

[nleo]

I hope i won't meddle in... but Ravenna (hdoll) have said on LD4ALL that her method is based on so-called nagual dream. What is that now? She explained
that some people can emanate various kinds of energy. For example, one can emanate happiness and people can feel it, it makes them feel happier, or one can
emanate anger or anything else, and result will be proper. So, she said she can emanate different kinds of energy and of those kinds is nagual dream. This one
will allow participants to perform a task in dream even without the lucid one.




Have I got it right, Ravenna?

[ARNWAY]

hdoll I'm sorry to come across so harshly and will not interfere or mention anything about what you want to do because this is not my site and not up to me
to judge.




whatever you do is fine with me.