Small discovery of the dreamhackers

[bluedreamer]

Arnway, I will reread your earlier post, don't forget this is all in the spirit's hands, so if hdoll doesnt do the training here--so be it and if she
does --so be it.,




It's all good arnway, I have much respect for you.

[bluedreamer]

This just looks like lots of communication troubles to me,




arnway, you didn't say hdoll was a spy or russian mafia it's just that in refering to the rumors of bad reputation of the russian dream hackers
dominance and supposed influence of the russian government in the group and then speaking about an untrustworthy guy you know in the russian mafia it makes it
seem like you were comparing the dream hackers(hence hdoll) to him. I expect that wasn't your intent .




I agree that hdoll should say with a clear speaking yes or no whether energy is sought from inorganic beings, this answer from hdoll is not clear about whether
inorganic energy is sought:






"Thanks ARNWAY. You gave one interesting idea to me. All around much speak about the inorganics. Someone talk that man cannot collect sufficiently energy
without them. Someone writes that inorganics are satanic essences. I do think that if I do show these inorganics for the participants in the training? In order
to fear wolves, it must at least once see one living wolf, right? In order to compose opinion about a question, you must at least once have personal experience
in this theme. Thanks for the idea.




A. on Q.:




I do not belong to the tradition, described by Castaneda. Therefore I with respect relate to new and old seers. "






I think that is because hdoll is not writing in her native language, well lets give her a chance to clarify what she means here, I think she might be saying
that she has no experience of meeting inorganics and she also says that she does not make a religion of Don Juan's teachings. I don't think you do
either but she might think you do since you question her from that perspective about the old and new seers.




Maybe if she has never encountered inorganics before and her training is free-form without a set agenda then she can't say whether inorganics will be
involved and also maybe she means that she is not afraid of them since she has never encountered them to know first-hand whether they are dangerous. I'm
not sure.




hdoll, have you encountered such beings? If so, do you instruct participants to use their energy for dreaming?

[Nagual LoneWolf]

HDOLL has always been welcomed here by me and this welcome has been in existence for many years. There are also those who have their own questions and seek to
show their own concerns. If we do not address such comments and instead turn away then we lose something. We have a worldly task. That task is to change the
world and make people aware of what they are, can be and will become unless they change and seek their spiritual selves. Nagualism is about freedom. Its about
the world. We are all connected. We are all being.

[hdoll]

OK )




I saw the inorganics and interacted with them. I assert that each of us saw the inorganics and interacted with them in the dreams. People divide the
dreamworld with inorganics. This is our general territory. When man finds larger control over the dreamworld, the call arises before us - HOW to interacted
with inorganics further. Personally I use hacker approach, which I consider very elegant and beautiful.




The theme of selection for the interaction with inorganics is shown in many texts on the invocation of nonmaterial essences - beginning from Faust and ending
with the works of Kenneth Grant. Before us there is the mass of possibilities - a sale, a contracts, the agreements, a rivalry, the opposition, a war. But
hackers use their original methods. It is based on the legends about the King Solomon. It is based on the stories about the Princess Ateh. I can say that in
this method are used all principles, rules and attributes of stalking.




Here people say that the dreamhackers are connected with the Russian government. Nonsense! Since 2001 the Russian Secret Service destroy hackers by the
different methods - physically and through the information means. The founder of our group - Sergey Izrigy - was killed in the investigation insulator the
FSB. I was forced to escape from Russia into other country. They incriminated me criminal case - the storage of explosives. A clean lie. Therefore, when you
hear that someone speaks about the dreamhackers as about the agents of Russian government, you can either laugh above this **** or you can spit into his
deceitful eyes.




Fellow from Russia asks, why you must believe that I belong to the group of dreamhackers. He wants to suggest idea to you that I am liar who does not deal
with the dreamhackers. Probably, he wants to say that he possesses special knowledge about me and the dreamhackers. OK! Each of you can think everything
which wants. My parents did not find me on the debris dump. I also possess a pride. If our contact downy to such limits, I raise the question otherwise. If
you want to associate with me, you must deserve my respect for you. "I am Russian bear! I arrived to teach you!" Excellent joke! But she speaks not
about me. My desire for a share of knowledge disappeared.




Fellows, sometimes your search for freedom is similar to the inquisition. You speak about nagualism, but in reality you resound some gossips. This is not the
nagualism. This is not the search for freedom. It's the intrigue and insult of others people. If you search for knowledge, you ask me about the dreaming,
but not about the Russian Mafia, not about Mister Putin, not about the Russian bears. Even if this is joke, this is not the search for knowledge. Most
frequently after this stands evil intention either envy or fear.

[bluedreamer]

Hi hdoll,




Thanks for your answer regarding the inorganics, you made it clear.




I dont agree that everyone here says that the dreamhackers are involved with the Russian government , for instance before this I had only heard that the
russian government is interested in and doing experiments in the paranormal. I haven't even heard much about the dreamhackers at all. I remain curious
about your group.




Sorry about Sergey Izrigy and about your troubles from the government, that's horrible, goverments all over the world are experts at that, all the more
reason for people to reach out beyond the government sponsered boundaries of nation, state, class, color, etc, etc

[bluedreamer]

Also, I am cautious about Inorganics, I don't have much experience in dreaming yet. I am told that some will harm and some not, I plan on finding out more
about them as I get better at dreaming and from there deciding how to proceed.

[hdoll]

bluedreamer



Bingo! How to learn the taste of honey, without having tried it? How to differ **** from German sausage, if you did not have an experience with
the smells? This is why I wanted to make training for the passage of the second gates of dreaming. This is why I wanted to show each, who would wish this, the
true inhabitants of the dreamworld.

[khronos]

hi all


i'm trying to understand why most of you are speaking about this from-spy-to-criminal nonsense inspite of asking some important things about hdoll's
project. if you'll continue, i think this idea would be buried under tons of useless spam - as many other dreamhackers-related topics.


i think there are enough people to start productive conversation. so let's try not to waste time...

[nleo]

I'm waiting when hdoll will conduct promised training. And only question I have in mind for now is where and when it will gonna be conducted ))


I hope it would be as promised about 10-12 september.


What other questions... Could it be dangerous? Huh!


Does it include inorganics? Yes, that's the good one! )))


Do hdoll want to eat our brains or to sacrifice it for Ktulhu? Hahaha! Or maybe she is a energy-vampire? The-one-who-asks, why are you here really?)


Who are these people, who doesn't want this training to be carried out? I think, it is time for us to make our intentions clear! I wanna participate in
that training, i intend to take the knowledge as much as I can or even more. Do YOU want it? What is your intent?




I suggest to everyone to spell out one's intent. Here. In this post. But first you should find the clean one... Clean intent of what your intention is
really intended for. )) and all those "questions-of-doubt" will gone away. All our fears and doubt will imprint in training flow (or intent). I
don't need it, do you? Clean intent will save us from all those troubles.




I do not want to be in this passive-distracted observation of really unneeded conversation. If we will not make our position clear, the training will be
canceled... Ask yourself, who wants this training to be carried out more: hdoll or you? She will find the way to fulfill (or execute?) the abstract core
without us.




Let The Spirit guide us...

[bluedreamer]

"I suggest to everyone to spell out one's intent. Here. In this post. But first you should find the clean one... Clean intent of what your
intention is really intended for. )) and all those "questions-of-doubt" will gone away. All our fears and doubt will imprint in training
flow (or intent). I don't need it, do you? Clean intent will save us from all those troubles.




I do not want to be in this passive-distracted observation of really unneeded conversation. If we will not make our position clear, the training
will be canceled... Ask yourself, who wants this training to be carried out more: hdoll or you? She will find the way to fulfill (or execute?) the
abstract core without us.




Let The Spirit guide us... "














good post nleo, I know I would like peaceful communication in this, I'll sit with the other awhile to get clear about my inent to the training, Thanks.

[nleo]

My point is: not to sit aside waiting for others, but to act by yourself! It is all in our hands now!

[Ladon]

I've read The Art of Dreaming not so long ago and I've always read about stuff like OBE's and astral projection but all those concepts are kind of
vague and each site or book tells something different.


I got interested in this dreaming stuff Castaneda talked about but if I look more into it I guess it's gonna be the same like other times, different stuff
all the time so I thought I'd take this opportunity so I can experience things first hand and not from someone else's information.




But I'm beginning to feel relunctant though because (as you can see in this thread) a lot of people take this stuff very very serious and I was wondering
if it's dangerous or if it will bring a permanent change to me... Those are my only fears, but I guess that's a normal fear of the unknown. Certainly
if it involves inorganic beings, I don't want the harmful ones to haunt me cos I'm not familiar with dreaming at all, I don't wanna get
'captured' if such a thing is possible, if you understand what I mean




Other than that, I think my intent is pretty clear: To learn what this stuff is about

[Archer1000]

My intent is to discover what is out there and experience it for myself and to become a better dreamer.

[bluedreamer]

My intent is to continue my involvement with this forum and read all the CC books which are available on-line for free so I can learn dreaming and other
techniques(i posted a link on the main forum here: Shamanic Warrior); I do not intend to enter into to training with hdoll, she percieved an insult from one
poster here and after that we were all lumped into the same catergory by her, qoute :






"Fellows, sometimes your search for freedom is similar to the inquisition. You speak about nagualism, but in reality you resound some gossips. This is not
the nagualism. This is not the search for freedom. It's the intrigue and insult of others people. If you search for knowledge, you ask me about the
dreaming, but not about the Russian Mafia, not about Mister Putin, not about the Russian bears. Even if this is joke, this is not the search for knowledge.
Most frequently after this stands evil intention either envy or fear."




Nonsense! especially from one who presents herself as a teacher.

[hdoll]

bluedreamer




Has your message is not the direct proof of my words, which you did quote?


Excuse, but I must introduce a refinement. I never positioned itself as teacher. I am the leader of the group which includes the young researchers of
dreaming.Possessing special knowledge, I proposed to you to take it from me. People, which wished to make this, found way to me (through the mail and
Google). In the week I will conduct training with them in the Russian language. Why in the Russian? This was the lesson, shown to me by Spirit. My knowledge
of English is not sufficient. It causes a false feeling of superiority in you. Therefore, if someone wants to participate in my trainings, for these people
it is necessary to make efforts and to overcome lingual barriers by own forces.




The Spirit gave lesson to you also. Whether you will be able to understand it, this depends on you. I desire successes to you and to all the remaining
participants in the forum.

[bluedreamer]

hdoll, in your upset, you did lump every one here in a catergory , look at Mornings Son's post and Lone Wolf's, I can't see anything disrespectful
or any catergorizing of you in their posts, not even a hint. They were very gracious. Maybe I came off as arrogant, I was trying to help with the language
barriers in both directions, with too much self-importance dumbassness and obviously failed. I am sorry. I don't think I am superior because I speak better
english--it's my native language, can I seriously take credit for that? I am trying to recover from taking credit for anything, I am less than a speck in
this universe. Maybe I did misunderstand your representation of yourself, I don't think you called yourself "teacher" but some how I took it that
way. I am sorry about these misunderstandings.




There are lessons for us all. Sucsess to you hdoll ravenna.

[Psychonaut]

Well, something is already going on here: http://dreamhackers.eu/forums/


(I hope, moderators of this forum and Ravenna don't have any objections about this link. I asked Spirit - he doesn't )

[bluedreamer]

I am sorry ravenna hdoll, you came here bravely and wanting a friendly reply and I ended up giving you blame, how riduculous of me , how ridiculous of me to
blame anyone but especially a brave young woman walking down the street of her dreams. I hope you will forgive my ignorance and slander.




bluedreamer

[ARNWAY]

I too hdoll apologize to assume of the things that I said about you its just that I'm guilty of generalizing you with the rest of the world and I realized
that I am wrong so lets just forget the assumptions that I made about you.




I'm sorry for assuming you are apart of things that I read about in the past about mind or awareness control and there for lets just erase these
assumptions of mine and go forward with your quest.

[Nagual LoneWolf]

The above link is fine. Hdoll has stated she is challenged by relaying the knowledge in english and feels better about Russian. If any who are comfortable with
both languages would like to translate here...please feel free to do so.




As for Foreign Energy in dreaming: Whether your aware or not, any person who dreams has encountered them. They just are not aware of what their encountering.
We who know of them, recognize them in dreaming and use them or refuse them. Its thats simple. Bluedreamer, I can without a doubt tell you that inorganics are
in your dreams on a weekly basis. We are just trying to teach you and others how to "see" them.




I have reclassified the sub-forum FOUR WINDS as a dreaming forum. Please post any training there to begin HDOLL. I am aware of the russian government
persecution of the dreamhackers. This has been going on for years. Perhaps the name dreamhackers doesn't sit well with western people. "Hacking"
has a negative association here. What it means to the russian dreamers is to shift their assemblage points with intent in dreaming.

[bluedreamer]

The sadness in my heart this morning reminds me I need to make more apologies.




I am sorry to all who came here excited to learn, that I was a part of the negativity that influenced hdoll to want to leave here and not give the training in
english, all the while believing that I was helping, shows how ignorance can hide itself and how belief lodges ignorance. Ladon, the thing to watch out for
most is ones own ignorance, it is the stupidity that puts oneself and others in harms way as you can see here from my example. I hope you all will forgive me
and can see that I do not represent all the other members here who are further along as warriors than I am.




I also apologise to Wolf and all the members of this forum whom I have come to know to be good warriors and helpful friends. Tolerant and forgiving. I hope you
all forgive me.




Arnway, I am sorry I didn't write to you right away and tell you directly that I felt you were wrong in your opinions and dealings with hdoll, instead I
was fearful to do that and was unwelcoming to a guest and not straight forward to you. I know you as a man who is willing to admit when he is wrong, so please
forgive me this wrong.




hdoll. once again I am sorry to you, I let my fear hold my better side back. I hope you will reconsider and possibly offer the training and/or visit this forum
again. Please don't let my display of ignorance stop you from your quest of reaching out to others. In this world we live in it is a most important quest.
I am ashamed of my behavior towards you.




bluedreamer

[Nagual LoneWolf]

Bluedreamer...that we live and learn is the path with heart.You show you have such a heart.

[bluedreamer]

Thank you wolf, you and everyone else help me in this. : )

[hdoll]

I have no a offences. Thanks bluedreamer. You allowed me to show that the Spirit remains always with us. It is always ready to give to us its lessons, which
we should only understand.




I be kicked from the large English forum. I am alien there at the invitation, saw themes and astonished. In Russia was such ten years ago. This as
children's sandbox. I wanted to show people new possibilities - another relation to the dreaming. Not as to the television set, where we see pictures and
subjects, above which we do not have a control. The dreaming can become the field of studies - your laboratory. I please to believe me. Such studies decorate
our life. They give enthusiasm. They fill us by special intellectual wealth. I, naive girl, bore this knowledge in their hands in order to give it to people.
When me banned as the spamer (obviously, now knowledge about the dreaming enters into this category), I astonished. The opposition on forum "Shamanic
warrior" even more greatly strengthened my surprise. I thought that this is the sign of Spirit. But I please you, bluedreamer, you must not take fault
to yourself. The Spirit showed some lesson based on our example. It conducted the training on the tolerance. Probably, we necessary to be grateful to each
other.

[Gonzo]

Почему любое выбрало бы принять вашу инструкцию когда наденьте Хуан и много другие предусмотрели адекватнюю инструкцию для всех видов мечтать? Иначе говоря,
что уникально о вашей инструкции?




(in English)


Why would anyone choose to take your instruction when don Juan and many others have provided adequate instruction for all kinds of dreaming? In other words,
what is unique about your instruction?