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Nu Lang wrote:
Sedna...I don't see stalking as bad. Its an art after all. I myself have always been a stalker by nature.NL, I get that you see whatever it is that you are calling stalking as a good thing (however, I am unsure why seeing it as good or bad matters as good and bad are facets of the ego which further illuminates your unchecked use of ego in this thing you call stalking). What I have said is that you have not made your case that what you are doing is, in fact, stalking or that it has anything whatsoever to do with CC's books or what benefit, if any, comes of it...you have given no personal examples. And, I have proceeded to ask many questions about whatever it is that you are calling stalking in hopes that you will explain the process to me clearly that I, and I suppose others, may understand...and if what you were doing was intended to help others, which I am not clear that it is designed as anything other than rubbing your own ego, but if you intended it to help others then surely clear description would be helpful to others...and I know it would be to me.
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Sedna, my descriptions have been as clear as I can make them. I feel I have said enough on this topic for now, and those reading can each discern what was meant. We each must follow our inner wisdom, so if yours tells you you don't see any worth in what I put forth on stalking here, so be it.
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Turin and Rainbow,, same here!
What I wanted to highlight is something from another thread on stalking. I think it's perfect!
I wanted to laugh, but he did not give me time. Very succinctly he
defined stalking as the art of using behavior in novel ways for specific
purposes. He said that normal human behavior in the world of everyday
life was routine. Any behavior that broke from routine caused an unusual
effect on our total being. That unusual effect was what sorcerers
sought, because it was cumulative.
"The real challenge for those sorcerer seers," don Juan went on, "was
finding a system of behavior that was neither petty nor capricious, but
that combined the morality and the sense of beauty which differentiates
sorcerer seers from plain witches.
I think this is very important. What we didn't really stress in our
stalking discussions was the importance of intent. As with anything a
sorcerer does his intent must be impeccable. If that is the case,
no further explanation or discussion is needed.
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Oh shoot this was a good thread I'd love to keep it going!
Well since we are discussing things, has anyone on this thread ever been stalked by another? I have been stalked on forums before, and typically gave such people a rude awakening back for doing so, haha. So have you been stalked? Do tell!
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"So have you been stalked?"
lol...yes.
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datura8 wrote:
Oh shoot this was a good thread I'd love to keep it going!
Well since we are discussing things, has anyone on this thread ever been stalked by another? I have been stalked on forums before, and typically gave such people a rude awakening back for doing so, haha. So have you been stalked? Do tell!I have too encountered folks trying to stalk me, but they weren't very effective. Were they effective for you?
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Oh yes, most definitely, in fact, that's why I'm here. I was going to just come to Shamanic Warrior (this time last year)...make a few posts abotu Lujan and leave, lol. That was 'the plan'.
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@Dat -
I would say when FW was around, being the person you refer to, she was very effective. In fact, her stalking continues to remain effective because you still react with immediate anger at the mere mention of her. Perhaps you don't see your reaction as being the thing she stalked. That is, have you ever examined why you reacted?
A good analogy of stalking of this sort is fishing. In order to catch the fish, the right bait must be used and patience exercised. FW had an uncanny knack of perceiving which bait would work with which fish. Out of all those she "caught", however, perhaps only two learned anything from the lesson. The remainder, realizing they had been conned, responded only with self-righteous anger and resentment.
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Gonzo wrote  Dat -
I would say when FW was around, being the person you refer to, she was very effective. In fact, her stalking continues to remain effective because you still react with immediate anger at the mere mention of her. Perhaps you don't see your reaction as being the thing she stalked. That is, have you ever examined why you reacted?
A good analogy of stalking of this sort is fishing. In order to catch the fish, the right bait must be used and patience exercised. FW had an uncanny knack of perceiving which bait would work with which fish. Out of all those she "caught", however, perhaps only two learned anything from the lesson. The remainder, realizing they had been conned, responded only with self-righteous anger and resentment.
So mind games equal stalking? Do I have that right? So I would be correct in saying that manipulating another to the point of emotional re-action is stalking, yes?
And if she were still on these forums (FW) and continuing her multi-personality-disordered mind-effing and posturing, would you say she was a master stalker?
Just trying to get this right!
(PS some people were not angry with FW for her antics, but see her as a sick individual with too much time on her hands and a dire need for medication. )
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Enchantra wrote:Gonzo wrote Dat -
I would say when FW was around, being the person you refer to, she was very effective. In fact, her stalking continues to remain effective because you still react with immediate anger at the mere mention of her. Perhaps you don't see your reaction as being the thing she stalked. That is, have you ever examined why you reacted?
A good analogy of stalking of this sort is fishing. In order to catch the fish, the right bait must be used and patience exercised. FW had an uncanny knack of perceiving which bait would work with which fish. Out of all those she "caught", however, perhaps only two learned anything from the lesson. The remainder, realizing they had been conned, responded only with self-righteous anger and resentment.
So mind games equal stalking? Do I have that right? So I would be correct in saying that manipulating another to the point of emotional re-action is stalking, yes?
And if she were still on these forums (FW) and continuing her multi-personality-disordered mind-effing and posturing, would you say she was a master stalker?
Just trying to get this right!
(PS some people were not angry with FW for her antics, but see her as a sick individual with too much time on her hands and a dire need for medication. )
Yes. You have it right. Also a means of dismissing the effectiveness of what she revealed and continues to reveal. The two most prevalent excuses were it was purely an ego trip on her part and that she was deranged. What continues to be ignored by many are their own reactions to her doings. Why did anyone bother to respond to her? What caused the urge to post? It's far easier to dismiss her as deranged rather than examine one's own motives.
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Gonzo wrote: What continues to be ignored by many are their own reactions to her doings. Why did anyone bother to respond to her? What caused the urge to post? It's far easier to dismiss her as deranged rather than examine one's own motives.
Now THAT is stalking.
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Enchantra wrote:Gonzo wrote: What continues to be ignored by many are their own reactions to her doings. Why did anyone bother to respond to her? What caused the urge to post? It's far easier to dismiss her as deranged rather than examine one's own motives.
Now THAT is stalking.
Tell that to Sedna.
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Gonzo wrote:
@Dat -
I would say when FW was around, being the person you refer to, she was very effective. In fact, her stalking continues to remain effective because you still react with immediate anger at the mere mention of her. Perhaps you don't see your reaction as being the thing she stalked. That is, have you ever examined why you reacted?
A good analogy of stalking of this sort is fishing. In order to catch the fish, the right bait must be used and patience exercised. FW had an uncanny knack of perceiving which bait would work with which fish. Out of all those she "caught", however, perhaps only two learned anything from the lesson. The remainder, realizing they had been conned, responded only with self-righteous anger and resentment.
Oh boy here we go again. FW revisited! Firstly, I do not see FW as a master stalker but as a master troll. She was very good at creating 'characters' and changing her writing style for her characters. She fooled a lot of people but she did not fool me. I was hardly surprised when she unveiled her characters on RS, much to the horror of other folks (esp pretending to be a man and hitting on a woman.). In truth, a master stalker is sober and sane. Sane, yet a madman. FW was not sane and a madman, she was just mad, and obsessed with posting, prodding, and picking at folks. She definitely did attempt to 'stalk' and she infuriated folks with her 'go deeper' talk. You remember, she would be probing folks and tell them, 'go deeper,' and she had studied nlp and was into that too. Headgames. With that said I don't see being a master stalker as a mind fu&%$r. A master stalker shifts ones ap. She never shifted anyone's ap she just exasperated them with long posts of probing, trying to get under folks skin. She was more of a nuisance, like a pimple on a rat's ass, than a master stalker.
ANd no worries, the mention of her doesn't get a rise outa me. If she came along today, would I do battle again? Possibly, lol. I would use her for my own evolution and handle the engagement quite effectively.
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Gonzo wrote:Enchantra wrote:Gonzo wrote: What continues to be ignored by many are their own reactions to her doings. Why did anyone bother to respond to her? What caused the urge to post? It's far easier to dismiss her as deranged rather than examine one's own motives.
Now THAT is stalking.
Tell that to Sedna.
Not sure you heard me. I was agreeing that what you said here:
Gonzo wrote: What continues to
be ignored by many are their own reaction
examine one's own
motives.That is stalking by traditional definition and I think Sedna and I agree on that.
What is questioned, though, by me as well, is the use of the word stalking to describe a pattern of behaviours wherein folks observe and manipulate others all the while saying it is for their own good.
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Seems to me the heart of the matter is people rarely pay attention. The nagual is always there speaking, who will answer the call?...such are rare people.
So this Forest Wolf, who I don't think I know?? Was a trickster. But whats revealed is whats fixed in place that views the world as "should be such and such and so and so." So its an opportunity to see that, as painful as it may be at first. Tricksters aer good to have around as long as a good nagual is present when the **** hits the fan. Otherwise chaos is too great.
Naguals by nature 'seem' 'reasonable' and thus buffer the onslaught of the unknown.
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datura8 wrote:Gonzo wrote:
@Dat -
I would say when FW was around, being the person you refer to, she was very effective. In fact, her stalking continues to remain effective because you still react with immediate anger at the mere mention of her. Perhaps you don't see your reaction as being the thing she stalked. That is, have you ever examined why you reacted?
A good analogy of stalking of this sort is fishing. In order to catch the fish, the right bait must be used and patience exercised. FW had an uncanny knack of perceiving which bait would work with which fish. Out of all those she "caught", however, perhaps only two learned anything from the lesson. The remainder, realizing they had been conned, responded only with self-righteous anger and resentment.
Oh boy here we go again. FW revisited! Firstly, I do not see FW as a master stalker but as a master troll. She was very good at creating 'characters' and changing her writing style for her characters. She fooled a lot of people but she did not fool me. I was hardly surprised when she unveiled her characters on RS, much to the horror of other folks (esp pretending to be a man and hitting on a woman.). In truth, a master stalker is sober and sane. Sane, yet a madman. FW was not sane and a madman, she was just mad, and obsessed with posting, prodding, and picking at folks. She definitely did attempt to 'stalk' and she infuriated folks with her 'go deeper' talk. You remember, she would be probing folks and tell them, 'go deeper,' and she had studied nlp and was into that too. Headgames. With that said I don't see being a master stalker as a mind fu&%$r. A master stalker shifts ones ap. She never shifted anyone's ap she just exasperated them with long posts of probing, trying to get under folks skin. She was more of a nuisance, like a pimple on a rat's ass, than a master stalker.
ANd no worries, the mention of her doesn't get a rise outa me. If she came along today, would I do battle again? Possibly, lol. I would use her for my own evolution and handle the engagement quite effectively.
Jeezus...I just don't get it. What did I say? "The remainder, realizing they had been conned, responded only with self-righteous anger and resentment." I've said before and I'll repeat it...FW's stunt was quite similar to Julian's "Four Tulios". The aim there was not to shift dJ's AP (I still don't know what that means) but to expose dJ's low level of awareness. DJ himself could have said, "You SOB - you conned me...you made a fool of me..." iow,, he could have responded as did those conned by FW, regardless whether FW falls within your definition of a proper (i.e. perhaps benevolent) stalker with pure intent.
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Enchantra wrote:Gonzo wrote:Enchantra wrote:
Now THAT is stalking.
Tell that to Sedna.
Not sure you heard me. I was agreeing that what you said here:
Gonzo wrote: What continues to
be ignored by many are their own reaction
examine one's own
motives.That is stalking by traditional definition and I think Sedna and I agree on that.
What is questioned, though, by me as well, is the use of the word stalking to describe a pattern of behaviours wherein folks observe and manipulate others all the while saying it is for their own good.
Who said it was for their own good? Is the shell game designed for the mark's own good? Indirectly, it is for the mark's own good if he realizes he has been conned and more importantly WHY he was conned. I posted the comment that you cannot con an honest man. If you take that beyond the confines of money into the area of self-importance, you have the kind of stalking I'm talking about.
Which reminds me of a little Zen story, when monks were out in a group doing traditional begging...as they turned a corner, some wag yelled out, "Oh venerable Sir..." and all the monks turned to respond.
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Nu Lang wrote:Seems to me the heart of the matter is people rarely pay attention. The nagual is always there speaking, who will answer the call?...such are rare people.
So this Forest Wolf, who I don't think I know?? Was a trickster. But whats revealed is whats fixed in place that views the world as "should be such and such and so and so." So its an opportunity to see that, as painful as it may be at first. Tricksters aer good to have around as long as a good nagual is present when the **** hits the fan. Otherwise chaos is too great.
Naguals by nature 'seem' 'reasonable' and thus buffer the onslaught of the unknown.
Trickster is apropos.
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Gonzo wrote:Who said it was for their own good?
It's been said a few times in this discussion, three or so threads on it, that "stalking others is to help them see".
I am responding to that.
Anyway, another impasse!
I'm out.
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Enchantra wrote:
Gonzo wrote:
Enchantra wrote:
Now THAT is stalking.
Tell that to Sedna.
Not sure you heard me. I was agreeing that what you said here:
Gonzo wrote:
What continues to be ignored by many are their own reaction
examine one's own motives.That is stalking by traditional definition and I think Sedna and I agree on that.
What is questioned, though, by me as well, is the use of the word stalking to describe a pattern of behaviours wherein folks observe and manipulate others all the while saying it is for their own good.
Not sure I am really following this conversation well, but yes that is my question...why use that word when there are other words that are more clear? There doesn't seem a purpose, other than to obsucate matters, to using a misleading word...just saying.
Gonzo, if there is an example (which you seem to be suggesting that there is), please share it.
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Nu Lang wrote:
Seems to me the heart of the matter is people rarely pay attention. The nagual is always there speaking, who will answer the call?...such are rare people.
So this Forest Wolf, who I don't think I know?? Was a trickster. But whats revealed is whats fixed in place that views the world as "should be such and such and so and so." So its an opportunity to see that, as painful as it may be at first. Tricksters aer good to have around as long as a good nagual is present when the **** hits the fan. Otherwise chaos is too great.
Naguals by nature 'seem' 'reasonable' and thus buffer the onslaught of the unknown.
Ok here, finally...could you please describe this in more detail. I believe this is at the heart of the matter.
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Gonzo wrote:
Who said it was for their own good? Is the shell game designed for the mark's own good? Indirectly, it is for the mark's own good if he realizes he has been conned and more importantly WHY he was conned. I posted the comment that you cannot con an honest man. If you take that beyond the confines of money into the area of self-importance, you have the kind of stalking I'm talking about.
Which reminds me of a little Zen story, when monks were out in a group doing traditional begging...as they turned a corner, some wag yelled out, "Oh venerable Sir..." and all the monks turned to respond.
Oh this is great, you are good. I think I get this (finally), *does a happy little excited dance,* thank you.
Ok...let's see if I have this right so far. The end goal is to be an honest man (or woman)...but what does this mean?
What I am gathering is that someone came along and did something (what?) that upset a lot of people because they were not being honest, and instead of realizing that they were not being honest they blamed the person...is that right?
Ok, if I am tracking correctly so far, then let me ask this...does this not prove conclusively that stalking others does not work? If it is not conclusive then what would constitute a higher test than this?
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First & foremost, the warrior who believes herself "qualified" to stalk someone other than herself should really be stalking her own self-importance. A better definition of stalking might simply be: "acute self-awareness" with regard to one's own belief systems, reactions, defenses and so on. A warrior stalks herself in order to know herself. It's that simple.
As for ForestWolf... allow me to say from extensive experience, she was deranged at best and as someone else said, "a master troll." That's the best definition of her I've run across thus far, despite what her fan club of one would have you believe. She was one who believed herself qualified to stalk others, when it was patently obvious she needed to be stalking her own self-importance, ego and never-ending requirement for negative drama. I'm fairly certain that most others who were present for her shennanigans at the time would agree. Her role was not that of a trickster, but that of an egomaniacal tyrant who went so far as to create false identities and actively encourage others to "fall in love" with that "person", only to later announce that the alternym had "died" a horrible death of malaria or brain tumor. Yes, she did both, with no regard for the fact that the grief people experienced at these "deaths" was very real because they had been falsely led to believe these people were real. Many were deeply hurt by her manipulations and outright lies - which were not the actions of a teacher, but quite simply the self-indulgent machinations of a deluded child who had no regard for those she damaged in her deep addiction to drama and the intentional manifestation of chaos.
Another important factor to consider in the discussion of stalking is that virtually ANY twerp can hide behind an internet avatar and pretend to be a "master stalker", when the reality is that most are just master baiters who have no real personal power in their own lives, so they prey on the vulnerability of others. That isn't stalking. It's just **** behavior by some Don Wannabes who read a Castaneda book back in the 60s.
Bottom line... the best teacher is the one sitting on top of your shoulders, the one looking out at you from the mirror every morning, the one who has full access to all the bounty of Spirit through the art of silent knowing (gnosis). Sure, we can all learn from one another, but the moment we give up our power to someone else, we sign our own spiritual death warrant - which is precisely what happens when we try to exonerate and elevate someone such as ForestWolf (aka "River"). To say such actions are "for one's own good" is just a sad attempt to turn the tyrant into a hero - most likely to cover the fact that the person saying it was hoodwinked by the tyrant and doesn't want to admit his/her own inability to *see* through the tyrant in the first place.
The only one qualified to stalk you... is you.
Alien (aka Quantum Shaman)
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Thanks QS/A for the post, much appreciated.
And I do get tired of hearing this Gonzo, that FW's 'con' was similar to the Four Tulios. It's very simple. Master troll. Create numerous characters, create websites to back them up, create email accounts. Is this not the earmarkings of a disturbed person? And just because people were outraged means nothing. That is human nature, to be outraged by such deceit. Like QS/A said, this person created a male character, had someone fall in love with them, had them die, so the other was believing it all, fell in love then grieved for the dead beloved. How is this the earmarkings of a master stalker? This is the work of a sick individual, who played troll with numerous characters, just to create as much drama.
And of course to act like a wrecking ball and destroy good forums too. What kind of person shows up on a forum, with the intent to destroy it? A disturbed individual, and she did destroy a good forum with her shenanigans. She stunk up the place with her **** so badly, that everyone left the forum, and created new ones to escape to, where they could regulate admittance. A good forum, gone, into oblivion, just because she wanted to make it so.
How many times had she done these things? Probably countless times, and she is probably off somewhere up to no good, doing the same drama. Well its a good thing I made her leave after her last episode when I exposed her, showing her hideous picture and how disturbed she had become. I still remember it like it was yesterday. "Just be the living love." She had created a slogan, she wanted to be a guru, a nagual. She even tried to hook herself a nagual man along the way. How is it a disturbed person is perceived as a master conwoman? In the end Gonzo, the only one she really conned was you. You believed her to be so much more than she was, and she was simply in need of help, and a canceling of her internet subscription. Someone needed to get back to life, back to reality, very badly.
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