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SEAR WROTE:
"Subjective "reality" is a ruse"
MY RESPONSE:
Thus you openly reveal how little you know about the true nature of reality. There is nothing "objective" about the unfathomably mysterious perceiver which exists within you and is perceiving "reality" filtered through clumsy senses that are easily tricked. There is nothing "solid" about the reality you perceive surrounding you. Atoms and electrons are made of energy and the pure energy that makes up the reality around us is not objective. Everything you perceive you perceive subjectively. There is no way you can prove that the color red looks exactly the same to everyone perceiving it. What you call 'objective reality' is actually being perceived subjectively.
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"What you call 'objective reality' is actually being perceived subjectively." LM
By you.
I recognize that objective reality (aka "reality") doesn't need my cognition to exist.
I recognize that what is, is; regardless of my perception.
If I've been doing strenuous exercise, and I walk into a room that's 74F degrees, it might seem hot.
But if it's 25F below zero outside, and I've been sitting still in that same 74F temperature room for hours, it might seem cold.
My perception is immaterial.
It's 74F!!!
It's QUANTIFIABLE objectivity!
I'm not denying subjectivity.
I'm simply differentiating it. In vivid contrast you're absolutizing it; an ignorant blunder.
The world is more than subjective impression.
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sear...
potential
The inherent capacity for coming into being
Some prefer to believe only in what's right in front of them. Others believe in what is not visible but can be seen. Which one are you?
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My apologies NL.
I probably shouldn't have used the word "blunder".
A re-write?
I'm simply differentiating it. In vivid contrast you're absolutizing it in ignorance.
The world is more than subjective impression.
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PS
NL,
I have a difficult time deciphering your post, due to unusual formatting.
I can't tell if it's your sig-line, or a comment directed to me.
"Some prefer to believe only in what's right in front of them. Others believe in what is not visible but can be seen. Which one are you?" NL
If it's a question directed to me:
It's a false dichotomy. There are more perspectives than the two you've mentioned.
I'm neither.
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"In vivid contrast you're absolutizing it in ignorance."
wow, that can't be good...
sear, its just based on a dream I had. Its hard to convey feelings to others. Pure energy flowing unstopped. Imagine a waterfall.
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SEAR WROTE:
"It's 74F!!!
It's QUANTIFIABLE objectivity!"
MY RESPONSE:
Whether or not that is perceived as hot or cold is determined by subjective programming
The media brainwashing is most effective on those whom they can convince that 'subjective reality is a ruse'. People so convinced are the most easily brainwashed. They are the properly conditioned suckers for they believe exactly what those in psychological power want them to believe
It is my belief that the core of what the American psychological programmers want is a docile American population who will never riot like they did in Egypt. It must scare the hell out of them to see what happened over there. They've probably spent billions to ensure a properly conditioned moronic populace who believe, without question, that 'subjective reality is a ruse'.
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SEAR WROTE:
"The world is more than subjective impression."
MY RESPONSE:
You cannot prove this. You cannot prove that anyone has consciousness. In the unconscious state of dreams the most ludicrous and ridiculous situations can be accepted as fact. In your waking existence can you prove that your perception of color is objective? It is not! Your ability to perceive colors is subjective. A person who is colorblind can attest to this.
Can you prove that 74F feels the same to others as it does to you or is your perception of "74F" a 'subjective' experience?
There is no objective reality outside of your subjective perceptions, through your easily tricked human senses, that you can prove to be objective and objectively the same for everyone else too.
There is some unfathomable mystery going on around us, but to flippantly call it "objective reality" as though we are absolutely certain what is going on is the sign of pompous conceit. The supposedly "objective world" appears to be made of solid objectives. People like you were once certain of this. Thanks to breakthroughs in quantum physics we now know that, at the subatomic level, there is nothing solid about electrons and atoms. They are made of pure energy which is NOT SOLID in any way shape or form and atoms are mostly made of empty space.
You are without a doubt the type of gullible, pompous, conceited brainwashed well-trained 'monkey-boy' who would have once said:
"The sun goes around the Earth. "It's quantifiable objectivity!"
You know this is true, Sear. You and your kind were certain that because they saw the sun rise everyday that automatically meant that the sun went around the Earth and it was a quantifiably objective fact! You were wrong then for the same basic reason you are wrong now: You are basing your assumptions about the nature of reality on a very small and limited perception of what is actually going on around you
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"media brainwashing" LM
Piffle.
The same thing applied before "media".
"You cannot prove this. You cannot prove that anyone has consciousness." LM
a) You can't prove your perspective either. So that argument is at best a draw.
b) Before NASA's shuttle Columbia exploded on re-entry, temperature sensors at the landing gear began to report high temperature readings not understood by the scientists monitoring them. There wasn't sufficient time to diagnose the readings, which were believed by some to be spurious. Long before they could piece it together, Columbia (& cargo and crew) were wreckage lighting up the daylight sky.
It turns out the temperature sensors were right, and the technicians reading them were wrong.
"You are without a doubt the type of gullible, pompous, conceited brainwashed well-trained 'monkey-boy' who would have once said:" LM
Conspicuously subjective.
No wonder you cling so tenaciously to your position.
You're evidently have a difficult time conceptualizing parallel truths.
"The sun goes around the Earth. "It's quantifiable objectivity!" LM
"Quantifiable"? By what units?
" You are basing your assumptions about the nature of reality on a very small and limited perception of what is actually going on around you" LM
Piffle.
When I was a young infant I spent a lot of time in a crib that had a mobile hanging over it.
I might have thought the entire universe was my nursery.
But I've been exploring for over a half century since then. Never have I assumed I'm near the edge of the planet, and just one more step and I'll fall off, plunging into space.
I remain open minded that there's something more beyond the next tree; even though I don't know what it is. It could be another tree. It could be a squirrel, or a deer, or a stream, or an outcropping of bedrock, or another explorer.
"You and your kind were certain ..." LM
Psychologically this is known as "projection".
You're attributing your own certitudes to me.
Do you ever wear a "Wanna Bee" T-shirt?
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SEAR WROTE:
"Piffle.
The same thing applied before "media"."
MY RESPONSE:
Oh, so you were alive and able to 'quantifiably' verify this? You make ignorant assumptions. You don't want to realize it, but with your conceited condescending attitude you would have used the sun in the sky as quantifiable verification that the sun moves around the Earth. You are indeed the type! You would have been loudly proclaiming that the Earth is flat and the sun moves around the Earth. You are indeed than brainwashed dumb. You have no original subjective view. You would have believed whatever they taught you in school as 'quantifiable objective' fact. You are too dumb in your conceited intelligence to see this and you are too much of a coward to openly admit it if you did.
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SEAR WROTE:
"Quantifiable"? By what units?"
MY RESPONSE:
The units on a sundial, moron! That's how you would have stated, in the same conceited condescending tone of "74F!!! its QUANTIFIABLE objectivity!":
'Look at the sundial! The sun goes around the Earth, it's QUANTIFIABLE objectivity!!!'
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SEAR WROTE:
"Piffle...
I remain open minded that there's something more beyond the next tree;
even though I don't know what it is. It could be another tree. It could
be a squirrel, or a deer, or a stream, or an outcropping of bedrock, or
another explorer."
MY RESPONSE:
There's something more beyond the next tree. Anything besides a subjective view of reality. You come off stating that the subjective view of reality is a ruse then you have the nerve to state that you are open-minded. You may be able to fool the other monkey-people with this, but I am not so easily fooled by you narrow-minded types
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SEAR WROTE:
"By you.
I recognize that objective reality (aka "reality") doesn't need my cognition to exist."
MY RESPONSE:
You "recognize", with senses that are easily tricked. New discoveries in quantum physics beg to differ. You automatically assume that a tree falling in the forest makes a sound, but if there is no one to hear that sound you cannot be certain of this. You cannot even be certain that the sound of a falling tree is quantifiably the same for everyone who hears it. New discovering in quantum physics are posing the possibility that what we call "reality" is actually a personal collapsing of limitless waves of energy surrounding us. When you view any situation you tend to see it as you THINK it is, but that view is based on a very small and narrow perception; maybe 10% of what is actually going on around you. That 10% of what you are certain is reality has been conditioned by all those who have taught you all your life. At any given moment about 90% of what you call "reality" is not being perceived by you. Thus it is pure ignorance to state that the subjective view of reality is a ruse.
You are too ignorant to see that if you stated: 'I believe the subjective view of reality is a ruse, but I could be wrong' is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT! This would be the statement of a truly open-minded person always ready to upgrade what he currently believes when more truth becomes available. However to state something to the effect of: 'Been there, done that. The subjective view of reality is a ruse' is a blatant conceited, condescending statement that exposes your blind, brainwashed ignorance.
If you had the courage you would openly admit this, but we both know that no matter what truth I may share you will reject it as a matter of principle. That's how dumb and cowardly you actually are underneath your conceited, self-assured monkey-boy show
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SEAR WROTE:
"Psychologically this is known as "projection".
You're attributing your own certitudes to me."
MY RESPONSE:
Amazing how blind you are to the fact that what you were doing was "projection" when you stated that subjective reality is a ruse!
Let me make it clear that I have nothing against you personally, Sear. It's what you represent that makes me want to kick you in the nut with all my might. You are a conceited, pompous, self-assured moronic **** who seems to feel he's 'been there, done that' and can condescending look down on all the other posters here with a sense of superiority. Then you come up against me and suddenly...you've met your match!
Compared to you I say this is wisdom: I currently believe there is an objective reality outside of my subjective view filtered through my senses, that are easily tricked. What it is I cannot say for sure. I once thought it was sold, now I find that is incorrect. Considering it is stated that humans are perceiving "reality" around them with only a small portion of their brain potential I am open to the possibility that I may be incorrect on a great many subjects. This being the case I will not "piffle" circumstances in arrogant, ignorant, pompous conceit.
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LM,
It's plain to see you're no where near bright enough to comprehend how devastated you have been by me in this discussion.
You've reduced yourself to groundless insult, and gross mischaracterization of my position.
Further interaction with you would probably be a waste of my time.
You pretend to be a master.
Yet you haven't even mastered fundamental good manners.
What would your mother think of your cyber-tude?
Please leave me alone.
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sear wrote:LM,
It's plain to see you're no where near bright enough to comprehend how devastated you have been by me in this discussion.
You've reduced yourself to groundless insult, and gross mischaracterization of my position.
Further interaction with you would probably be a waste of my time.
You pretend to be a master.
Yet you haven't even mastered fundamental good manners.
What would your mother think of your cyber-tude?
Please leave me alone.
In other words you see yourself as 'better and wiser' than I am and so you don't want to bother justifying your position with one such as I who is so far 'below' you, eh?
Next, of course, you will want to say you don't want to give the impression that you feel you are 'better' than anyone here. That's the classic response in a situation like this for if you think you are "better" than others it automatically means you are mentally unstable
You really painted yourself into a proverbial corner with your response. What a shame you can't trick me as easily as you would like to
When defeated you automatically find a reason to ignore my responses and then brainwash yourself into thinking you are a noble, courage man of tremendous integrity
Pathetic
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sear wrote:LM,
It's plain to see you're no where near bright enough to comprehend how devastated you have been by me in this discussion.
You've reduced yourself to groundless insult, and gross mischaracterization of my position.
Further interaction with you would probably be a waste of my time.
You pretend to be a master.
Yet you haven't even mastered fundamental good manners.
What would your mother think of your cyber-tude?
Please leave me alone.
SEAR WROTE:
"Psychologically this is known as "projection".
You're attributing your own certitudes to me."
MY RESPONSE:
There you go again "projecting"
All you want to see are the insults that are, in fact, VERY WELL GROUNDED and ignore the rest
Yours is the classic attitude of conceited atheist/agnostic types who are certain they have 'been there, done that' and have it all figured out
Don Juan said that you can't make bones for a jellyfish. He was obviously talking about people like you
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sear previously posted:
"You've reduced yourself to groundless insult, and gross mischaracterization of my position." sear to LM
LM's first three words in reply:
"In other words ..." LM
As predictable as the sunrise (but nowhere near as bright).
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LeeKuanMajor wrote:SEAR WROTE:
"Subjective "reality" is a ruse"
MY RESPONSE:
Thus you openly reveal how little you know about the true nature of reality. There is nothing "objective" about the unfathomably mysterious perceiver which exists within you and is perceiving "reality" filtered through clumsy senses that are easily tricked. There is nothing "solid" about the reality you perceive surrounding you. Atoms and electrons are made of energy and the pure energy that makes up the reality around us is not objective. Everything you perceive you perceive subjectively. There is no way you can prove that the color red looks exactly the same to everyone perceiving it. What you call 'objective reality' is actually being perceived subjectively.
A Simple Question: With all this back and forth between us are you still adamantly convinced that "Subjective "reality" is a ruse"?
You see, I know the tricks you and your atheist/agnostic kind are fond of pulling. You tend to address multiple points in a post in order to confuse the issues. That is why I have done my best to address ONE POINT per post. Then, of course, you still try to evade the issues raised and think of yourselves as 'courageous'.
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To be perfectly honest, I didn't like the way you were treating people on this thread and decided to take your whole point of view apart; which is not very difficult for me to do. However, it is obviously impossible for you to openly admit that this is what I did. Suddenly you are not so certain whether or not the subjective view of reality is a ruse or not. You are obviously a person who simply cannot admit that he might very well be wrong about the subjective view of reality, or anything I have ever seen since I have first seen any of your posts! This is supposed to be a topic about the highest courage and it is something you truly lack. If you were truly courageous you would not be afraid to admit that you might very well be wrong about a subjective view of reality, about James Arthur Ray or about ANYTHING!
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SEAR WROTE:
"Subjective "reality" is a ruse"
MY RESPONSE:
Thus modern science has Sear successfully brainwashed. However, when it comes to the matter of consciousness...well...there is NOTHING objective about it! There is nothing quantifiable and objective about consciousness and yet Sear pompously uses what is not quantifiable and objective, something that is COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE, to determine that the temperature 74F is objectively quantifiable! Ridiculous when you think about it and YOU SHOULD think about it, Sear, because you are a very well-trained science brainwashed human monkey-boy and they have you right where they want you!
In the early stages of martial arts people are concerned with kicking and punching and memorizing forms so that they can correctly duplicate them at will. In the advanced stages of martial arts everything changes. The master realized that all "objective" movements are the product of his subjective view of himself. He eventually realizes that it is the proper concentration of the vital forces of the Universe (Chi) that determines the quality and effectiveness of his "objective" movements. His subjective view of reality is the supreme creator of all his "objective" movements.
The very term "Mind over Matter" can easily be correctly translated into: Subjective Reality Over Objective Reality. That's what it is alright! If you cannot successfully envision yourself breaking a board with your bare hand I suggest you not make the attempt because chances are you will indeed break your hand. The master martial artist must subjectively believe in himself before he can successfully accomplish such amazing subjective over objective reality techniques.
Bottom line is: If you don't subjectively believe in yourself chances are you will be a failure at manipulating your objective world. That is what you do all the time whether you realize it or not. Everything you do in life is an example of your subjective reality manipulating your objective reality. The supposedly "objective" world is quite different when I believe in myself and when I don't.
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I think I just may have finally had it with cornering and showing up cowardly atheist/agnostics in forums of this nature. I've really got better things to do with my precious energies and It's about time I started doing them; and I have
Again I say that I have nothing against Sear personally. I just enjoy philosophically 'checkmating' his condescending, ego-bloated, conceited, atheist/agnostic types who look down on anyone who believes in the possibility of the unseen nature of reality. Considering how little humanity knows about how the brain functions and how the brain connects with the intangible mind it seems ridiculous to me to be so certain that "subjective reality is a ruse" as Sear so flippantly stated.
Then when I proverbially crucify him, philosophically, he runs and hides like the coward all his types are. If he were a man of true integrity and courage he would state that he is no longer as certain as he was that "subjective reality is a ruse". He would state that he could be mistaken about this. NO, he doesn't have the guts or the decency to make such statements. He must maintain the image of knowing all that can possibly be known about the nature of reality to feel 'cool'. In fact, he and all his atheist/agnostic kind are narrow, close-minded idiots!
So he runs back to his forum where he can play Hitler/God with his fancy administrative buttons; a place where he makes the rules and is always certain to win the argument by banning others
(((( SPIT!!! ))))
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