What is real? Forming perceptions of others and self

[rosygyro]

find dharma girl wrote:i think it needs to be very clear what forebearance is.
  Dec 18, 2016  art of stalking/ therapy -- the messiah complex (SEE rosygyro POST #8)     Beautiful and powerfully insightful.

    NOW, understand---> this is not about other entities. My perception recognizes that inside rosygyro's delineated circle represents all that is manifest as my world.   rosygyro evaluates what is put inside correctly---> NOTHING.  

    I do not say world is illusion.. only that my subjectivity is the primary 'real.'  I currently CHOOSE to compress and objectify my world by reducing it to Kaomea.  With discipline and unwavering obedience to my conceptual SELF, I stand outside her puny c*nt show.

THIS (SEEING WITH BEING) IS FOREBEARANCE.

   I can wreak havoc on my circled world (aka Kaomea) without objectively breaching integrity.  That is, I comprehend that there is nothing there..  [yep, Kuntomea has no value].  Evaluation is a subjective CHOICE.  Only my CHOICE has value, not a cu*nty toy.  
 
  BECAUSE I AM perfectly whole, my subjectivity is readily objectified and made manifest.  When I do CHOOSE to value Kaomea, that CHOICE is inviolable action.

    Others would fall by the wayside.  Why?  They have no firm grounding, and their variable movements are on the sand of societal influence.

      So, Kaomea.. you shall not tonally move away from me, otherwise your life's occupation will be a sham.  I AM the arising substance of your craft.  

  I AM enjoying the f*ck out of this, and I will soon enough have you.  

 I think that there is a lot to be said for the "unassaulted" state. we are born alone (a)and we die alone(b)
in between is attatchment to the corporeal
and the length of time we spend "AS" life progresses.
The unassaulted state is vital to our health/
finding it in TOTALITY by mapping out the pressures in the sorcerers world is a goal.

within the sorcerers world be are prepubescent as well as geriatric,
we are unblemished as well as scarred.
this growing tip of 41years old is only a current reflection
of a totality before it got scratched by the corporeal.

There is a lot to say for respecting the female in the sorcerers world.
to see her in an unassaulted state, the sorcerers world contains that position.
the males unfortunatley have a near impossible task to unremember their own
sexual misadventure and so will carve all women with their known.

It is easy to see why the death defier appears as a prepubescent girl
but for the KNOWN the vision spells death of the old.

i try to recapitulate.. not the acts of sex..
but the instant before each act.
that moment before another unknown layer
was smeared atop an already lost victim of she.

In reality i will not sleep with a woman conceived after the day i lost my virginity.
it saves confsion of the most liminal incestuous kind.
that not even the seeds of my aura could ever be contained
in the body of a partner born after first contact.


the spear of destiny is a tree snapped in two..
rootward lies the past.. branchward lies the future.
you must not inhabit the tree..
the spear should no longer be in two.

i

[glance left]

In order to forget....upholding the intent to not remember....until memory fades

[find dharma girl]

REMEMBER this---> MEMORY and SEEING go hand in hand.

[find dharma girl]

I consciously remember..  this is the gravity and sobriety of intent, else SEEING is scattered and without cohesion. 

Whether in purity or poison, I don't forget.. I do with purity; I do with poison.

[glance left]

"else SEEING is scattered and without cohesion"

Only in terms of ones compulsion to cling to memory. The abstract is down there, a vast yawning expanse. There's cohesion....its just that its incomprehensible in terms of "memory" as its known. Its an option....and some choose it.

[find dharma girl]

SEEING without rembering one's SELF lacks resolve.  Intent is not born of awareness as nada.  Intent is the resolving of futile emptiness in the face of everything.  Awareness is a participatory sport, even having attained controlled folly.

Your nature as a man, glance left, is not optional.  No matter how deep the awareness, existential human perception is empty folly.  A CHOICE in this matter is what makes a warrior.  You are advocating disconection.  I will tell you with 100% certainty, the glowing happiness I realize is not without memory.  CHOICE is not possible in a vacuum.

   Tell me more about this comprehension you know without memory of manifestation.  The dark awareness you are trying to elucidate, is nothing of energetic import with the 'sensational glow.'  Dark, wonderous you in heavenly composure needs the context of interaction with what is .   

Going within your own emptiness evolves.  I saw you indicated in a post somewhere recently that it was imperative to get ot there.  I had thought to respond,"Good boy."

[find dharma girl]

Correction: The dark awareness you are trying to elucidate, is nothing of energetic import without the 'sensational glow.' 

Silent space of separation is not soley for its own qualative state (though NICE); I detach to obtain clarity about the emanations and how to ACT.  Though SEEING is without self-reflection, it is not disconnected from MEMORY.

[glance left]

"Your nature as a man, glance left, is not optional."

Of course it is. Choice...and unbending intent can go in any direction to infinity

"Though SEEING is without self-reflection, it is not disconnected from MEMORY."

Unless is it....disconnected from memory. But it never will be for those incurably preoccupied with themselves.

[glance left]

http://sorcery.yuku.com/topic/6607/Disappearing-Act

[Nagual Menagerie]

Rosy, no one cares who you sleep with.

Billy, your pattern has been unchanging. You're entertaining; but such entertainment never goes further than laughs.

Glance, yes. This is why people like you change the world. You carry a vision of truth and use it to empower your environment. The best thing about memory is that we have a choice in recalling whatever we desire. If who we are is a product of who we've been and our experiences, imagine what it might mean if we can dictate who we are. We hold our fate in our own hands. All we have to do is to hold unyielding intent to choose the memories to keep in order to shape the future we desire (for the self). You are the person you imagine yourself to be.

Just as Rosy is the ideal product of his Self he desires. He wants to fight and be hostile toward the things which oppress him. That's the world he CHOOSES for himself. Billy CHOOSES to live in a world where he controls people (and constantly fails). I CHOOSE to live in a world where I laugh at idiots (including myself, because everyone can be idiotic); I aim to control myself (I'm not quite there yet, but I must be close heh). Glance chooses to live in a world where hope still resides; that's a reality I can easily get on board with as it's simple and achievable when the eyes are made available for use.

Vision is a choice. Most are blind. Few wear an eye-patch. No one has both eyes open.

[rosygyro]

glance left wrote:"else SEEING is scattered and without cohesion"

Only in terms of ones compulsion to cling to memory. The abstract is down there, a vast yawning expanse. There's cohesion....its just that its incomprehensible in terms of "memory" as its known. Its an option....and some choose it.You must recapitulate fully at depth at death. Recapitulation "during life" is necissary in order
to escape the cloying embrace of the eagle, the eagle consumes
those areas of your spirit attatched to social conditioning.
I.e. if you have no social conditioning you can slip past the eagle.

I think it would be a grave error to try to detatch from the "lauchpad"
pre-emptivly.

The toltec recognition that power is ground out of personal challenges
can find greater depth in the generic challenges all human share.

i.e. we have some very human traits that are not made by personal history
but by collective history, To resolve aspects of those is to change the feeding ground the eagle has access to
at your death.
on this planet , at this population density
when you die hundreds of others will also be dying or recently deceased, in the same slice of time
If it is indeed a feeding ground of the eagle upon the habitual
then once you have resolved your personal history
you can complete only a modicum of generic collective history warriorship
and the eagle will find you too unbountifull in terms of wasted perception
to even bother(or be able to) snapp at chya with its beak.
critically however you will still be seated upon
the source of your human life.

[rosygyro]

rosygyro wrote:glance left wrote:"else SEEING is scattered and without cohesion"

Only in terms of ones compulsion to cling to memory. The abstract is down there, a vast yawning expanse. There's cohesion....its just that its incomprehensible in terms of "memory" as its known. Its an option....and some choose it.You must recapitulate fully at depth at death. Recapitulation "during life" is necissary in order
to escape the cloying embrace of the eagle, the eagle consumes
those areas of your spirit attatched to social conditioning.
I.e. if you have no social conditioning you can slip past the eagle.

I think it would be a grave error to try to detatch from the "lauchpad"
pre-emptivly.

The toltec recognition that power is ground out of personal challenges
can find greater depth in the generic challenges all human share.

i.e. we have some very human traits that are not made by personal history
but by collective history, To resolve aspects of those is to change the feeding ground the eagle has access to
at your death.
on this planet , at this population density
when you die hundreds of others will also be dying or recently deceased, in the same slice of time
If it is indeed a feeding ground of the eagle upon the habitual
then once you have resolved your personal history
you can complete only a modicum of generic collective history warriorship
and the eagle will find you too unbountifull in terms of wasted perception
to even bother(or be able to) snapp at chya with its beak.
critically however you will still be seated upon
the source of your human life.
With regards military and cia experiments such as MK ULTRA it is relativy easy to see that GENERIC traits of humanity
could easily fall into place as around taboos.
The MK ultra beaking of moral and taboo boundaries under orders and manipulation
gave them a POWER.. 
they resolved some very deep level global social conditioning fibres.
The problem is that this POWER dissasociated them from their own personal work
as they became held in polarity with the collective sleeping.

There is a big HOW? as to the way the MK ULTRA survivors can align their POWER with that the collective truly needs.

SPEAR OF DESTINY too is also not a personal thing except for the individual.
The collective need is to survive and not obliterate ourselves with war.
10000- years more human life or 3-4 years.
I think it is pretty clear which path the spear of destiny flies down.

[glance left]

"You are the person you imagine yourself to be."

I agree. And my intent is to be someone gratefully and perpetually saying goodbye, from one moment to the next, until I'm gone. And in leaving, respectfully, and hopefully, without leaving a trace....I intend to make room for growth.

"I think it would be a grave error to try to detatch from the "lauchpad"
pre-emptivly."

Probably. But some detach more quickly than others. I agree, the approach is a progressive one.

"once you have resolved your personal history
you can complete only a modicum of generic collective history warriorship
and the eagle will find you too unbountifull in terms of wasted perception
to even bother(or be able to) snapp at chya with its beak.
critically however you will still be seated upon
the source of your human life."

Thus the launch into the unknown. Further progressive detachment leads to another launching pad, is my guess...into something far more vast and unfathomable. Beyond the "source of human life".

Again, a choice, it seems....for those who are inclined

[find dharma girl]

the wicked witch pulled me back (to sign in here).         Glance left, your reponses are nonsensical (literally).  Why?   You are 'assimilating' the ideas put put there.  They are not who you are.  I could go back and forth here, but I won't.  You haven't the fortitude, you haven't the conviction of deeper grounding.

    You know this, and I CERTAINLY know this.

[rosygyro]

first person i have heard who thinks being severed from the tonal is progressive.

[glance left]

"I could go back and forth here, but I won't."

The neither will I.

"first person i have heard who thinks being severed from the tonal is progressive"

"severed" seems a little abrupt. "Weaned" maybe is better

[Julio Juliopolis]

Having the ability to connect to or disconnect from the tonal to any degree at any time seems ideal.

[rosygyro]

glance left wrote:"I could go back and forth here, but I won't."

The neither will I.

"first person i have heard who thinks being severed from the tonal is progressive"

"severed" seems a little abrupt. "Weaned" maybe is betterIt doesnt really sound like you are detatching from the human condition in only awareness It sounds like you are picking and choosing what you feel is your totality and then
detatching from the human condition as you see it.
the net result of this is that you are gathering energy around some still very human desires
but doing so from an obscure place that the habitual assemblage has no access to.

from certain angles this method of energy harvesting can be regarded as theft from the corporeal.
it can only end in severence from the tonal.
unless that is you choose to lead or validate the method by working with the deeper
habitual resistences of the human condition
but you have already expressed that you are not willing to do that.

i appreciate that you don't "want" to walk around like a raggeddy bag of ****, dragging your ass
through the dregs of the human condition, that you dont want to recapitulate certain  events from your past
on a daily basis.. (trauma perhaps)
but the elimination of social conditioning is precisely that.

example- trudy was gangraped in school when she was 16.. the year was 1985/
she wants to recapitulate her life and eliminate the social conditioning the event had for her
the social conditioning is that her sexual life is largely ruined as she cannot for some reason detatch from the event
even though she is now in her middle age.
she does not want to spend every day feeling astrally raped.
she does however try to detatch but time and time again the trauma re-arises.

the reason it re-arises is that the human condition apon which we are seated is full of rape..
and unless she finds a way to resolve the human condition before detatching she cannot actually in the long term detatch.
apon death even if she completely abandons her energetic attatchment to the event.
her awarness will still collapse on the HUMAN condition of rape.
i.e. she will still be dragged down to seat in f ront of the eagle
she avoids recapitulating the event as a dimension of awarness because she doesnt want to feel it.
but by not feeling it, simply blinds herself to the final step of freedom.

[glance left]

You're speculating, to a degree.  It's understandable, most "pick and choose" as you say, and leave the more hurtful stuff untouched/swept under the rug to hopefully leave and forget...but it never goes away. 
To address you're example and to be specific. I was sexually abused as a child.  And, upon endeavoring upon this path, have gone right back into those moments, to the best of my ability with the best of my awareness, via the recapitulation.  Right into the heart of the beast, so to speak, rekindling all that horror mixed with sexual response when I was a pre-teen. It's an ugly combination that leaves years and years of distorted compulsion in its wake that's difficult to process and resolve. Yes, the dwindling echoes of that trauma are still here...and I'm still willing to address them, as infinity sees fit.  In as such, I let infinity do the picking and choosing.  I'm not beyond cringing.....reflexively pulling away when faced with moments that stimulate what's left of that trauma...or other myriads traumas I've engaged.  I'll acknowledge that.  But the intent to face what needs to be faced is here.  Infinity knows.  Infinity sets the agenda and the pacing.  "Whatever is needed" is my response.

[glance left]

"Having the ability to connect to or disconnect from the tonal to any degree at any time seems ideal."

Yeah, I'd thought of that.....the image of a abstract ball of light dipping in and out of the known/unknown/unknowable, continually refreshing impulse energy for renewed expression in the more formed realms. It seems a viable option. First things first though....the capacity to detach...via resolving "human realm" stuff....stuff incurred from getting raped either actually or metaphorically, as rosy so delicately puts it...via whatever it takes to truly detach and cohere while detached. Then...well! Perhaps can come and go to one's heart's content.

Still, though...one thing to consider. There the notion of sticking around long enough until the job is done (resolution/detachment)...and then sticking around long after one's worn out one's welcome. The definitive journey beckons. When it's time to leave, I hope I can make that final step.

[Nagual Menagerie]

"When it's time to leave, I hope I can make that final step."

Reminds me of death. Everyone is so afraid of it, but then we all die, and for some stupid reason many of us return for another round of life (reincarnation). What if the point isn't to quit; what if the point is to be a circle and never leave? Rather, how does one know the job is truly done? When a person is comfortable with themselves (able to self-entertain), there's no reason to leave any place...every place can host that sort of awareness.

[glance left]

"Rather, how does one know the job is truly done?"

Good question. I just figure I'll know when the time comes. Death of the body seems like a propitious time to let go while holding onto core awareness. OBE's help in terms of practicing this detachment from the body. Recap, I think, helps to ensure to let go the compulsion to cling once detachment has taken place....though any practice of looking within to see where compulsion to cling resides would be effective if thorough, I'm guessing.

"what if the point is to be a circle"

I agree, but in an abstract sense. To be a circle, or ball of awareness that can cohere with or without human moorings.

I should just speak for myself, honestly. There are those who stay indefinitely, I know...who remain of service and "self entertain" as you say. More power to them.

[Mornings Son]

glance left wrote:"Rather, how does one know the job is truly done?"

Good question. I just figure I'll know when the time comes. Death of the body seems like a propitious time to let go while holding onto core awareness. OBE's help in terms of practicing this detachment from the body. Recap, I think, helps to ensure to let go the compulsion to cling once detachment has taken place....though any practice of looking within to see where compulsion to cling resides would be effective if thorough, I'm guessing.

"what if the point is to be a circle"

I agree, but in an abstract sense. To be a circle, or ball of awareness that can cohere with or without human moorings.

I should just speak for myself, honestly. There are those who stay indefinitely, I know...who remain of service and "self entertain" as you say. More power to them.the job... The Job ... just back from a weeks retreat with my teacher - zen master from japan - so in that traditions the master can see if the student has done the job.The job here meaning seeing ones true self, realizing the source of awareness, letting go completely of body and mind and being it - the Tathagata - suchness.

"what if the point is to be a circle"
i like the prune .... point and circle is essential geometry 

being a circle... heh so zen.. the empty mind that mirrors all that appear before/in it

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