Modern Nagualism-What Happens After Death?

[scout1]

"It seems you are thinking that the assemblage point fits inside your inventory of reasonable
things, but that's not so. Don't see it as a solid object or as another part of your body. We don't
have an assemblage point, we are it!
"While a warrior is imprisoned within the limits of the human form, the furthest place he can
transfer his assemblage point is to an area of interpretive vacuum, which new seers call
'limbo'. That is a real space on the frontier of the other world, a transition area on the
periphery of the other attention.
"These movements accumulate and serve to condense our personal power, until they finally
crystallize in a kind of luminous matrix that Don Juan called 'the dreaming positions'.
Through exploration of those positions, the individual experience of a sorcerer leaves the
human groove and becomes practically limitless.
"The movement of the assemblage point is not just propelled by an interest in accessing
astonishing visions, but is above all directed by the fact that each controlled displacement
liberates enormous quantities of energy. Ideally, the warrior applies his unbending intent and lights up his energy field as if he becomes one gigantic assemblage point, to witness everything once and for all.
In that case, the point shoots out and up, the traveler becomes a blast of light, and he never
recovers his form again. This is the greatest challenge, the union of our awareness with
infinity."
- Carlos Castaneda

[rosygyro]

to leap to infintiy
the deep past must be isolated (westerly void, naugaul man)
the potentials of the future must berarified(easterly void nagual man)
the principles of natural time must be identified (NORTHerly void nagual man)
and ultimatley Toatal inhuman dissapation must be endured until the self is a vessel of the four quertered void!
the body and cocoon and the mind are illusions.. memory is also an illusion..
within the facts of power.. recapitulation is energetic and does not have to be a consious experience..
more an alignment of the self with the quarters.
how dare you fucking argue with me!

[quantumshaman]

I had missed this thread originally.  My own take on it is this:
There are essentially 2, maybe 3 "options" for a warrior. 
1.  The double exists as a projection of energy, essentially "outside" of the organic form.  When the warrior's organic body dies, the "leap past the eagle" would involve the leap from the organic vessel into the INorganic vessel, which is the double.  At that point, one embraces the totality of oneself, in inorganic form, and MAY either continue in this world, or assemble another world.  Once self/double have conjoined in the inorganic body, one could take any form/shape/gender one might choose.
2.  Transmogrification - essentially a shift of awareness from organic self to inorganic double BEFORE the death of the mortal body.  To do this would require a phrenomenal movement of Will, combined with the absolute knowledge that even the organic body is made of energy at the molecular level - i.e., we are already inorganic, but it would require truly KNOWING that on all levels of awareness to achieve the act of transmogrification. That's the abridged version, of course. 
3.  Third attention.  The unknowable.  Much attention is given to this in CC's works, but obviously the unknowable cannot really be discussed, so I'll simply say that the third possibility for a warrior is that s/he sheds the organic body, flies past the eagle and finds "freedom" in the third attention. 
Obviously we all want-to-believe Death is not the end.  Personally, I would prefer to become a death-defier/tenant and hang out here for another few centuries or at least until that rogue comet smacks the earth and I have to relocate to Elsewhere.

[rosygyro]

nemo wrote:Nagual LoneWolf wrote:Nemo I get it. There are different events that can happen at death or at the moment of choosing. Once I stood at night within the wall of fog while before me was a bridge to another world. The bridge led up to the stars. I was going to leave this world fully intact but then decided to stay for I was young then and didn't want to go alone. I spoke aloud my intent to stay and the bridge faded into a mist and I returned to the earth. Thus I know what you mean Nemo, been there. My leading question was to invoke responses to what others believe or want to believe in this the study of Modern Nagualism.Cool,  Thx for staying. Sometimes when I read your words it reveals what you know not believe, sometimes not.
Scout, my recommendation to anyone is the incremental movement of the AP not jumping. 
I agree.. the difference between a "move" of the assemblage point and a "shift" is one of intent over time!
we can all mess oursleves up on drugs for a night.. but a few can mess themselves up forever!
i like to think fluidity is the same.. (as drugs i mean)
INTEMT

[CI5]

"At the moment of death, the human body's AP implodes.The spirit rises out of it. If a warrior can use this energy when this happens, he/she can shift to the third attention and keep awareness and inhabit the double."



- NLW 02/08/12





That should be one energetic fact, otherwise other energetic facts are in play.

[rosygyro]

CI5 wrote:
"At the moment of death, the human body's AP implodes.The spirit rises out of it. If a warrior can use this energy when this happens, he/she can shift to the third attention and keep awareness and inhabit the double."
- NLW 02/08/12

That should be one energetic fact, otherwise other energetic facts are in play.
I dont know if you read my post entitled Mayan death rituals.. but simply put..
1000,s of years ago before the computer, the plasma, the cathode ray. the silver screen... before these things mankind still observed the things in life with a level of mental expectation.
within HUMAN SACRIFICE the priest also put a bit of a twist apon the scene.
as the sacrificial victims life was ended the priest with his knife would peel aspects of the observed part of the tonal character sideways within the visions of the seeing onlookers.
this not only gave a perceptive tension to the living mayans .. but also allowed a GAP for the fleeting spirit of the"victim" to make its way into eternity.
a leap to infinity will involve re-incarnation as a willing and understanding sacrificial victim! perhaps a priest!
the two are the same..
the point of no pity is total identification with oponant.. but apon the slab and about the knife.. it is and never will be clear which of the two priest and sacrifice walks back down the steps..(tao)

[nemo.primeradiant]

Each attention has a corresponding body, which in turn has its unique relationship with intent. Time is a peculiar element in play in all three attentions. Death is not the end of time, but it is the end of the intent of the first attention. To move outside the intent of the first attention, has energetic undercurrents, so it is important to see what the intent of the first attention is, and this can be done before the death of the body.

[rosygyro]

SUSTAINED REACTION POST REGARDING THE DEATH OF THEUN MARES

I didnt even know he was dead until about 90seconds ago! creek creek creek!

kaboom..

How do you reteroactivly adjust your meory of a time in MEST.

ive got to know now how to switch his click off!

maybe i would have just held him back.. haha!

RIP.

EDIT- ok its been 15 mintues now and i am genuinly gutted!

I was writing to renescant legacy and theun a few moths before speaking about bloody human sacrifice..

�i am a sacrificial priest from a past time.. and was asking for intelligent debate with theun apon the concepts

of alignment with destiny being life supportive and healing!

asking that if a destiny event was plotted in the distant future of an incarnate.. would it invite the corporeal form to make it to such an event..

i.e. would a potential sacrifice at a later date will the body to live to that date in order to meet destiny.

I had no idea he was dying at the time..

needless to say they refused and i withdrew my offer..

for me now to find out he is dead has given me a vision of his INTURNING..

+$%$ man why didnt he get in touch..

+$%$, +$%$..

TODAY MUST HAVE BEEN THE DAY THE SACRIFICE WOULD HAVE BEEN MADE!

some people just dont see.. or cannot trust events to happen at the right time.

besides it would have been quite illegal for me to cut his heart out with an angle grinder on top of a pyramid today anyway..��

�

SUSTAINED REACTION POST REGARDING THE DEATH OF THEUN MARES









above is the post i just made on sustained reaction regarding the death of theun mares!

I genuinly cannot believe he died a year ago and i didnt even know it.

at the time the exact time i ordered ten pewter aztec calendar plates from mexico..

genuinly shocked i didnt find out unitl now..

AND how much it just effected me..

the mind is ridiculous..

i just carried on for 10 months without a care in the world.

then i read theuns dead and im overwhelmed with emotion and grief and all the rest of the stuff that happens when a firend has died.

I dont understand why..

the above post is a true story..

it is the only post i ahve ever made in sustained reaction... and i only made it because it was a world shattering event for me.

and it was agoogle link that took me through to sustained reaction.

anyway someone in sustained reaction just banned me.. for some starnge reason..

not sure why..

maybe they didnt read or understand my post.

but im certain those of you who have read my knowledge on the art of peeling the mind and spirit in seperate directions on the sacrificial slab WILL UNDERSTAND.

anyway i wont be posting on sustained reaction again!



I genuinly did write to theun about sacrifice and its ability to extend a lifetime to a destiny point.

and i am genuinly stunned to learn today that he is dead.

I have done my best to re-assess the situation

i am just surprised I had a reaction in mind when energy should have already been true.

weird.

[rosygyro]

anyway "serial killer" stuff aside..
as we move into the relativly new global phenomena of EUTHENASIA..
we will begin to get some clarity on what an arranged death brings about.
what with astrologers plotting the best day to make their departure.
and the advent of people looking with clarity on their death at a certain date..
we will see wether such observation does in fact increase the vitality of the arranging to die!
human sacrifice is an artform of yesterday.
mirroring the surgical slab and other yet to be unveiled modern day civilisational peculiarities!
AHDC

[rosygyro]

I cannot believe i got banned from sustained reaction within 20 mintutes of posting for the first time ever..
It must be one of those "death of sorts!" thingys.
either that or the moderator of the time has never looked on this site for "sorceric reasons" of self protection and so didnt realise i was an established poster.
or maybe it was seen as a threat! (which makes sense only to the completeley retarded and paranoid!)
are sustained reaction insane , paranoid.. do they hold back from even looking at this site?
Do they look at this site? and have banned me becuase i may be the otherside?
I know afterall you have some strange debates between you!
to make it clear " I have posted on sustained reaction ONCE.. about an hour ago.. and been banned.
I posted about the death of theun mares!whose works i followed for thirteen years and still follow.. (although they just twisted weirdly in mest (but only in the mind) energy still true  i presume!
BIG LOVE

[rosygyro]

oh i know what happened..
I just trusted the sound of theun and his team for ten months only to realize that one of them has been missing for a while and my head is actaully totally full of garbage...
anyway just drove up out of town at high speed in the wifes car... big SCREECHING handbrake turn and straight back into town..
panic over.. Now to begin!
I AM THE NAGUAL

[rosygyro]

[CI5]

So Theun Mares is gone (again), Rosy.



Thats very valuable point Nemo you made..



i.e. Nagual says the the right intent for the first attention is to live a happy life, for tonal. Buddha says that truth means to be happy, to live happily. thats the path of heart. the same.



in this manner one takes a good care about the second attention body, the energy body, the soul, double



as this second attention body the energy body is a real deal of matters, the problem after death of physical body, as it goes to Space either way... a form of continuation/transference/transformation



third attention is cosmic consciousness not in assemblage point, but point of merging with universe states of consciousness.





I must add that at the point of third attention (i.e. past death) you encounter the Universal energetic facts, those are cosmic states of consciousness.. like the Clear light of the absolute basis of Universe consciousness, it is not just a plain infinite consciousness force of creation a plateau from which springs the total energy fields nevetherless it has total infinite consciousness. these true facts are not present in Castanedas books.



*(check the tibetan buddhist books on Death and rebirth energetic phenomena, highly recommended, especially Ole Nydahl s last book is completely elaborated on that energetic phenomena, otherwise Lati Rinpoche and Jefrey Hopkins book)*





otherwise, the seeing energy directly is a very good point to start - thats really awesome.

[CI5]

at the point of third attention (i.e. past death) you encounter the Universal energetic facts, those are cosmic states of consciousness.. like the Clear light of the absolute basis of Universe consciousness





this is not just a plain infinite consciousness, a force of creation, a plateau from which spring the total energy fields of Universe, nevetherless it has total infinite consciousness..



it is the TOTAL UNIVERSE CONSCIOUSNESS PLATEAU, the state of BUDDHA basis. The Clear Light of Consc. and the total energy fields of Universe emanate from that.





this the difference in the orientation or attitude in buddhism/nagualism axis - the attitude to the "third attention" universal energetic facts. i.e. the Buddha is directly oriented to that basis (atiyoga/dzogchen) and Nagual is oriented only on the point of crossing in the third attention.



But i say that as we hold the knowledge, if you say that some has "dissolved", such a being either became one with that infinite base (Buddha) or emanated.



We can make a synthesis on Buddhism/Nagualism at this point of third attention - either crossing over or merging, we can describe it. Such a Nagual then becomes a pratyeka-buddha class.

[CI5]

we are able to write a new chapter in the history, of Modern Nagualism.



first, i can point this important distinction at two points:



1) the crossing over at the third attention intact - one leaves intact (the fire from withing only option, this is not death =) there is no death at this point, both two energy spheres merges and leaves



but this is an accomplishment. otherwise if you die, if you die and dissintegrates at your physical body energy sphere, only your energy body leaves, as a "ghost", thats the "flight to second attention". thats "graveyard" according to DJM.



2) if you leave - the crossing over at the third attention intact - you are going to the Stars.



but if you boot it as pratyeka-buddha, you can mount yourself on the infinite planes anywhere =))





So this modern upgrade to the Nagual proposal is the devolopment of deep inner silence levels (jhanic levels) - devolepment of awareness on those levels both in your bodies - thats a "meditation", jhanic growth - to be able have substantial spring-board to the Infinite Universe, to have a magnitude as a star at the point of third attention so to speak.



To have a magnitude as a star when you leave at total third attention crossing-over merger - you need the jhanic levels development, the deep states of "inner silence"/ "meditation" - that means to turn your awareness on the Infinite energetic fields of Universal consciosness still alive - thats transcendence.



Just meditate a bit on the Infinite consciousness dear friends and you will see what will happen with your nagual development, e.g. how high you can get in your dreaming.

[CI5]

Total freedom crossing, "the fire from within" in not destruction of a luminious sphere of physical body, but a merging luminous shere of physical body with luminous sphere of energy body together. there is no death (marana), no corpse. One turns matter of physical body into pure energy, "changing the vibrations" using the agglutinating force. (maybe some tensegrity is usefull for that focus). Otherwise this exercise is reffered under: Tögal practice http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=T%C3%B6gal It is also documented in India/Tibet, not only Don Juan.So here you can find ref. for that.



If you die in the luminous sphere of physical body, your energy/awareness is dissolved and becomes cosmic. One faces the Universe, with its universal cosmic energetic facts (Universe is Buddha). Maybe then you can "leave" as energy body, as a ghost, if you hold on. Normal people loose cons. second time and energy body is a trasference of rebirth then. If there is a memory shade remainder its possible, but certainly there is the transference/reappearing/re-arising of being (and it is not a "rebirth" in physical "organic" world, necessarily, but also "inorganic", and thats pretty vast, and can lasts for a pretty long time).



I WARN YOU, if you leave as a ghost, its a graveyard for eternity. You can end up tied somewhere to a pole of eternity as an ass, forever.



If you die, all the mechanism reffered via buddhism applies to you as reffered above.





*(check the tibetan buddhist books on Death and rebirth energetic phenomena, highly recommended, especially Ole Nydahl s last book is completely elaborated on that energetic phenomena, otherwise Lati Rinpoche and Jefrey Hopkins book)*

[CI5]

Very important note: with sorcery, with people doing sorcery, it is very common they die and become demons, i.e. the demon class.



I.e. their energy body does not leave intact as an original entity, but it is trasformed into demon in the death, as it has acquired its characteristics.



So it is not a ghost at hold-on, but the original entity.



THE OBVIOUS FACT is that ones energy body ("soul") is acquiring characteristics and being transformed to the edge during life as a human, as a sorcerer. Then in death it is transferred like that. This is the death defier class. It is not "freedom".



not all the "death defiers" are same, like the second Indian "Death Defier"/Tenant from Castanedas books. But this is this class. (They cant get beyond kama-loka borders to realms of Gods).



Notice: transference is the term for what happens with your energy body (soul) when you die and you are not a "death defier" class.

[delawaredan]

Do you feel it is possible that a death defier could eventually seek freedom if the intent (after death) is aligned correctly with spirit to seek freedom.    Once one is a death defier, is it forever.   Everything is transitory, so I would think there would still be the possibility for freedom.   Can we help the Tenant seek freedom, if that is what the Tenant wanted?

[CI5]

"Freedom" is only CCs term =) correctly, in nagualism, it is the only under the third attention merger, the fire from within, the crossing - the dream of sorcerers, otherwise they are in "graveyard" condition (only energy body entity left) according to DJM.



Tenat is "free" in his/her own way =) DJM called it a clear aberration. there are many others "cool" options like the inconceivable dreaming possitions roll-offs, or the most interestingly, the luminious ball into hundred-times longer line shape transformation type roaming shamans, much more ancient (10 000 BC) and infinitely more interesting shaman-sorcerers than Tenant (those were the coolest guys, roaming still to this day =) (note in the art of dreaming first two chapters)



also If you have read the Wheel of Time, CC made a note on that in the last sentences.



some also did the blast off, in the third attention. Otherwise it was thousands of naguals passing into total freedom.



And i must mention and highlight the type of yogis burning the fire from within in the Asia (North India, Pakistan - Swat walley, Oddiyana), the buddhist (atiyoga) sorcerers burning the fire from within.



There is the knowledge of the third attention, but you need real yoga for that.



Dr. Castaneda only wrote the Fire from within note. He was not advanced seer, but a dreamer.



if you become a Seer, a real seer, thats another story...

[CI5]

I must add, never take it pessimistic... never, never take your human life pessimistic... as there are realms like... you die, and wake up and open your eyes in the Heavens (with your loved ones) just be good. i.e. its the trasference/rebirth travel (we are all "tulkus" in this regard)



refs.



sri Yukteswar

phowa (Ole Nydahl)

Christ

[CI5]

Mind you, it is only because Dr. Castaneda (sorcery nagual) only in his written works never reffered to this fact, but it is the fact of transference, of rebirth. and this is the primary fact.. not the fire from within =) so do not be stupid only because the Dr. Castanedas epical accounts on toltec sorcery.



It is because toltec total freedom warriors were never focused on that. (as this is another type of seeing, seeing the beings in the intermediate states - transition states when they are in cosmic state, in the "Eagles beak" (that was only joke by DJM/Genaro duo on old seers anyway) so to speak, but notice this pseudo-eagle is only taking beings as they died taking their awareness from the crushed physical body luminous sphere part). Eagle is a joke ! do not understand it like that.



This is explained on this parable: the whole amount of knowledge is like all the leaves in the whole forest of trees. You dont hold all the leaves from the whole forest in one hand as that, but just the bunch of leaves. But certainly, you can see all that, the whole forest, every tree, every leaf.

[CI5]

i have postponed posting the complete detailed model with references. i cant describe the bifurcation at the moment.

[CI5]

Simplified, if the body dies (not the fire from within), the energy body travels then, and takes a rebirth (transference/transformation), or stays as an entity of a sorcerer (only double/nagual self).



E.g. normal guy dies and his energy travels in the intermediate states (up to 50 days) and:



travels and destinations, the gateways can be e.g:



1) human womb

2) animal womb

3) gateway of a ghost

4) gateway of a demon

5) gateway of a god - i.e. one wakes up as god in heavenly realm

etc.



etc. hence the "rebirth"/re-appearing/destination - it is dependent on "world" of the gateway, as exactly there travels the energy of any ordinary guy.



one unnamed skilled sorceress told me that in the case of many adult humans, energy body is already somewhere fixed, thats the afinity. but it is common the energy body flies to see its corpse of its dead physical body.

[CI5]

I am happy to announce that we have dispelled LIES.. false views.. and ignorance, in the world of sorcery, at least here on this forum, in this thread. =) Only because dr. Castaneda has deliberately fogged and twisted TRUTH in his books and public statements etc., or they simply did not know..



I hope this clarification will liberate the beings deluded by ignorant and/or lying sorcerers (but we must thank dr. Castaneda for the comparative frame, next to Tibetan buddhist heritage, so i thank both dr. Castaneda and mr. Ole Nydahl).





It is the "energy body" what travels after the death of physical body... it is a soul. hm =) so soul travels. the energy body travels after the death of physical body, up to 49 days (Earth days). (and only in the case of dead sorcerers, the "death defiers", dead sorcerers hold on the energy body as entity, or their energy body as entity is trapped in that state, fixed, or tied...tied to the pole of eternity. this is the quagmire of second attention as Nemo has noted, the stocked dreaming positions and other exotic phenomena).



So, if you die (i.e. not dying the the fire from within, the evolution, toltec total freedom, this is 1), your energy body travels somewhere.. and there is the fork:



2) a death defier, a dead sorcerer (graveyard) - hold his/her energy body as an entity (that will last millions of years, at some limitited space. according to astrophysical computations, if Earth is not moved/what is possible technologically, this is 5 billions of years left, in this option. so this is 5 billions of years (Earth years). we can also this is the demon class, but the sorcerer has set up it on his/her own energy.



3) a normal case, the energy body travels after the death of physical body, up to 49 days (Earth days).



Here the energy body (soul) really travels



gateways here: a) human womb (that is a good chance) - 120 years (this is also the result of good karma= action in a life)



b) animal womb - many repeated lives as an animal (bad karma)



c) ghost/hungry ghost - hundreds to thousands to billions of years (bad karma)



d) demon (this is the most common for people doing sorcery, dying and becoming demons). (bad karma



e) god - thousands and up to thousands of billions years (this is the result of good karma= action in a life)

[CI5]

THIS IS A WARNING. as this is the most common for people doing sorcery, dying and becoming demons. this is the result, consequence, repercussion of ignorace. as a sorcerer.





d) demon (this is the most common for people doing sorcery, dying and becoming demons). (bad, ignorant karma=action with ones life). this is the result, consequence, repercussion of ignorace.





=====



otherwise, according to don Juan (he has accomplished the toltec total freedom crossing at third attention, the evolution of awareness), as a sorcerer, you are in a death defier class if you die and hold on your intact energy body. it is graveyard.



====



there is also



f) Naraka, niraya, the real hell and state of intense suffering (retribution), also a state of paranoia. But the anger, hatred, killing and damaging people is a primary cause here to enter and become a martyr, martyred by the workers there.





hundreds to thousands and up to thousands of billions years (this is the result of very bad karma= action in a life).



i.e. ones energy body flies to the gateway of hell, entering hell. once you enter, you cant escape until you pay for your evil deeds.