Time or no time...that is the question

[Bob May]

Enchantra wrote:
Bob May wrote:
Don't misunderstand my intent.
I was playing devil's advocate to Enchantra's comment that she did not believe in time. I was pointing out that we cannot function on this plane without a belief in it. Her statement is unbelievable.
And Newton's Laws are both measureable and repeatable. Not theory.
They just don't apply outside of the box.
That is part of the sobriety in my opinion. Putting things in their proper perspective. And then moving outside of the box.
In your opinion....
If you do not believe, then I am not here to convince you.  Time is irrelevant in Sorcery.

Ah see? You do believe in it. You think it's irrelevant.
So what's Norty?

[Bob May]

Enchantra wrote:
Found something cool:



Efforts to understand time below the Planck scale have led to an exceedingly strange juncture in physics.  If so, then what is time? And why is it so obviously and tyrannically omnipresent in our own experience? “The meaning of time has become terribly problematic in contemporary physics,” says Simon Saunders, a philosopher of physics at the University of Oxford. “The situation is so uncomfortable that by far the best thing to do is declare oneself an agnostic.”

“One finds that time just disappears from the Wheeler-DeWitt equation,” says Carlo Rovelli, a physicist at the University of the Mediterranean in Marseille, France. “It is an issue that many theorists have puzzled about. It may be that the best way to think about quantum reality is to give up the notion of time—that the fundamental description of the universe must be timeless.”


The possibility that time may not exist is known among physicists as the “problem of time.” It may be the biggest, but it is far from the only temporal conundrum. Vying for second place is this strange fact: The laws of physics don’t explain why time always points to the future. All the laws—whether Newton’s, Einstein’s, or the quirky quantum rules—would work equally well if time ran backward. As far as we can tell, though, time is a one-way process; it never reverses, even though no laws restrict it.

Time, in this view, is not something that exists apart from the universe. There is no clock ticking outside the cosmos. Most of us tend to think of time the way Newton did: “Absolute, true and mathematical time, of itself, and from its own nature, flows equably, without regard to anything external.” But as Einstein proved, time is part of the fabric of the universe. Contrary to what Newton believed, our ordinary clocks don’t measure something that’s independent of the universe. In fact, says Lloyd, clocks don’t really measure time at all.

“I said something like, ‘Your clocks measure time very accurately.’ They told me, ‘Our clocks do not measure time.’ I thought, Wow, that’s very humble of these guys. But they said, ‘No, time is defined to be what our clocks measure.’ Which is true. They define the time standards for the globe: Time is defined by the number of clicks of their clocks.”

Rovelli, the advocate of a timeless universe, says the NIST timekeepers have it right. Moreover, their point of view is consistent with the Wheeler-DeWitt equation. “We never really see time,” he says. “We see only clocks. If you say this object moves, what you really mean is that this object is here when the hand of your clock is here, and so on. We say we measure time with clocks, but we see only the hands of the clocks, not time itself. And the hands of a clock are a physical variable like any other. So in a sense we cheat because what we really observe are physical variables as a function of other physical variables, but we represent that as if everything is evolving in time.
Stated better than I ever could!
Very cool,
Much better than "I don't believe in time."
"The problem, in brief, is that time may not exist at the most fundamental level of physical reality."

So, since we don't function ""at the most fundamental level of reality"", I still say don't walk across the street during rush hour traffic or you may end up measuring time in revolutions per minute. lol
Seriously though here is a good example of science reaching the end of it's abilities. They are stumped and beginning to use phrases like "levels of reality." Some are beginning to look into spirtual studies now.
Gregg Bradden wrote a few good books along those lines. The Divine Matrix and the Isaiah Effect.

[ninth octave]

The thing that is astounding to me about time is every thing has already happened only we (earthlings) are the last to know about it.lol
Whatever happened in the opening second of the Big- Bang was already  done and complete. We are  living with in the drift and display of its aftermath. So basically everything was complete. I liken it to a  flat 2 dimensional surface shaken up abruptly, as it quickly turns into the appearance of a dimensional scape. We are looking back into time every time we look at the stars. It is a freeze frame to our eternity.
I was complete
I am complete
I will be complete

[Bob May]

[Bob May]

Bob May wrote:
ninth octave wrote:

The thing that is astounding to me about time is every thing has already happened only we (earthlings) are the last to know about it.lol
Whatever happened in the opening second of the Big- Bang was already  done and complete. We are  living with in the drift and display of its aftermath. So basically everything was complete. I liken it to a  flat 2 dimensional surface shaken up abruptly, as it quickly turns into the appearance of a dimensional scape. We are looking back into time every time we look at the stars. It is a freeze frame to our eternity.
I was complete
I am complete
I will be complete 
In the New Testament there are "Gifts of the Spirit." Wisdom, Knowledge and Understanding are three of them. 
My teacher had a definition for what he called the gift of Wisdom. It was "Knowing Without Having Known." He said it came like "remembering something",  a thought full blown. I think he was talking about the gift of Knowledge. I think some, if not all, here have had similar experiences. But, be that as it may, ..What if it did/does not merely come to us like a memory but IS memory. 

Job 38


Job 38:1
Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,




Job 38:2
Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?


 

Job 38:3
Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.




Job 38:4
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.




Job 38:5
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?


 

Job 38:6
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;


 

Job 38:7
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
The "Lord" is speaking about Creation here and asking Job, "Where were you" when this was happening?  
Many places in the bible where god or an angel of God comes to a person and calls their name, that person's first reaction is "Here am I."
Though Science can try to plumb the depths of Pure Existence Before/Beyond Creation, it cannot convey the Reality of it.
It has to be experienced  in order to Know it.

I Am is both a title of God and a Spiritual Experience. And quite possibly a Memory.
And, by the way, it also seems to be the keeping of a promise;


Joh 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

[Guest]