The Nagual Manuel

[Grand Speculator]

Kaomea wrote:Grand Speculator: It is not the fault of Naguals that nobody is up to the challenge.

If you get a half-baked nagual, it means you are a half-baked seeker. How do you like them apples?



@Grand: HAHAHAHAHA, that is such a funny thought. I love it. How you like them apples that is just so awesome. I enjoyed the points you made. Too bad for the naguals though, they are still expected to become impeccable even if their followers aren't. They have to be at the end, it's like teachers. You can't teach to the bottom of the class, you gotta teach to the top but keep things accessable to the everyone else. It's a hard challenge they face! Let's hope they're kr8ive bitches! Let us hope, indeed.

[Grand Speculator]

PS: Naguals are the bitches of the Spirit, not of followers nor apprentices.

[Guest]

Touche! *facepalms* Perfect way to view their circumstance, I was wrong!

[Lunoor]

Of course I know I was angry whilst telling everyone to chill wei, and I do laugh, regularly like right now, I think tonight I am due for some long tears and some holy belly laughing! Have to attend to the tonal of today first, work...obligations but tonight I am gonna let 'er rip!

[rosygyro]

personally i only became annoyed that gonzo chose to isolate himself from others in dreaming practices..



It is all very well to not have any dreaming awarness... and not a shamefull thing at all..

we are creatures of different directions of power afterall!



What annoyed me was that he tried to barr others from his dream, whilst obviously showing he has no capacity to dream...



an annoying problem...But IT DOES NOT do to pump energy fro self defence into areas of your life that you have no awareness in! All this will do is exasserbate fear problems which is why the dream doesnt begin in the first place!



The best remedy i feel.. is to take the STRONGEST NATURAL ACTS of SOLITUDE in your living life..

"chopping wood" or climbing trees.. and to "PROJECT" that same strength using your understanding of TIME.. Through the areas of your life where you are asleep...



Hence energizing your inert dreaming from with real strength of YOURSELF...



Strength others can relate to..



becasue no-one with real integrity is going to meet you in the dream if you are shrouded in fear.. becasue to do so they have to sodomize you, chop you up or steal your power...

hence thats the only type of people you get...



It would take a very nice dreamer indeed to spend his/her entire time.. visiting fear enshrouded otherwise dreamers.. and tending to their insane desires to be touched through the fabric of their fears!



So get your best compadre strength, nature enjoyment and real power.. and just "COMB IT OVER" ying yang style through the shadow portion of the planet you live in...

And at least by morning you will have made friends.. even if you dont remember until you start chopping wood and climbing trees....



Its best not to precipitate fear...

or take up areas of the dream where good people dont want to go.. with your own unconsious dread of the unknown!



Unless of course you are really a truly disgusting person... in which case by all means hide.. BUt i really feel most people just need to have an area of honesty in sleep..

and if it cant be with other people becasue of CC inspired dream paranoia..

Then make it the obvious enjoyment all people share in nature...



thats a folly you can meet the devil in and he will be too busy venerating the trees to **** up your bum!

[rosygyro]

But then I DONT BELIEVE IN DREAMING!



personally for millions of years before electricity..

It was simply not energy efficient to carry on talking, fucking or running around in complete darkness...

when there wasnt enough food to keep you in nutritional health throughout a 24 hour day..



so to economise we thought..

WELL howabout we dont do much during the dark bit seeing as thats when we cant hunt or see fuckall!

and so we rested...and passed the time...

during which time we developed deep relaxation to get to the light bit quicker so we could feed our families and empty bellies.. and see stuff and not worry about the JAGUAR and so forth...



of course over a million years this became a BIG ( and i mean enormous) form od social conditioning..

which just swept around the earth in a constant 24 hour cycle..

while the light side of the planet where awake .. the dark side were asleep.. or at least 95% of the time...



largely making the dream base of all people the reflection of those on the other side of the planet who were awake but who shared similar energetic attributes or scenarios to themselves...



This BECAME energetic attachment .. accross and around the planet.. But signified the birth of a future GLOBAL BEING who incorporated all people..

A BEING TERMED ATL'



anyway..

Now we have a 24 hour society with night shift work and halogen lightbulbs..and 10 million people cities dotted around the place where half the poepl are awake and half asleep.. in a sort of mini-system of the greater whole..

it is becoming apparent.. gradually....................

that we do not need to be in darkness EVER!

and that we can actually stop sleeping..

BUT ONLY if we can unentangle the whole ENERGETIC ENTANGLEMENT that dreaming has become..

hence "dreaming is social conditioning no matter how well performed"..



so technically..



I deliberatley dream to stop dreaming AND stop sleeping!..



i believe that sleep deprivation is a result of energetic attachment and million year old social conditioning!

and seek to end it..



its quite complicated as i cannot isolate myself from the earth body or the habitual position as a solitary individual becasue i am a nagual..



and so iu share my vision in every action i do..

and hope to help untangle the fibres i know are no longer needed by ANY people ANYMORE!..



just dont ask me what i really think the future of fucking is ...

it will drive you flimming bonkers!

[Wei Shan Yang]

Kaomea, in what way do you see the nagual's approach different to the challenges they encounter?



@Wei Shan Yang: I like your question! I see the approach they take as one out of complete love. They have faith in that everything they are going through is for a reason. Being so if they don't like their life, they have to take the same steps everyone else does in resolving the problems they face. One of the differences is their approach to life. For some reason it is easier for them to understand that the difficulties they are facing are not due to faults of themselves (taking a less egocentric approach). Every difficulty they encounter should be approached from a place of love for the person/people they interact with. Everyone deserves knowledge if that is what they want and the naguals are there to ultimately provide what others are looking for. Stability, protection, and love. They are our bitches! (Sorry, it really does seem that way, the naguals are here for the rest of the world, hence that would make them our bitches! rofl) They are no better than anyone, their hearts beat just like yours and everyone else. It's just they were unlucky enough to have the burden of leading everyone else to a higher level of awareness. They did not choose this for themselves, they were chosen. Not because they are special, but because of their capacity to love with no expectation of anything in return.



Although in the unevolved nagual, their approach to dealing with difficulties is marked with anger, resentment, and hurt. This is not because they are selfish, it's because they don't understand yet that the bigger picture is about the cohesiveness of the group. They are still growing and you cannot punish them for that, they are trying. We are meant to stand together, make positive choices as a whole not as individuals. Noone, not even the naguals are on their own level. If they were, it would be an unequal balance of power and that would fight against cohesiveness. They must bring themselves to the level of those around them and humble themselves, it is only then that they will truely evolve into what they're meant to be and be able to lead others the way that was intended.



Haha but what the hell do I know, I could just be making all this **** up


Kaomea, thanks for the response. You said naguals can love with no expectation in return, but some may not be at that point yet and instead still evolving to get past anger, resentment, hurt. These qualities you describe, I see them in any person that has a great deal of spiritual determination and desire for experiencing unity, totality. So by your description I'd be a nagual.
"Everyone deserves knowledge if that is what they want and the naguals
are there to ultimately provide what others are looking for. Stability,
protection, and love."
I have received knowledge from those who call themselves naguals, from those who don't, and also have insights come directly (not from a person). Stability, protection and love. My family and friends provide that. Without them I'd be utterly despondent, particularly the loved ones I'm closest to. They are the glue that holds me together, and from this I feel secure to explore the universe.

[Wei Shan Yang]

Lunoor wrote:Of course I know I was angry whilst telling everyone to chill wei, and I do laugh, regularly like right now, I think tonight I am due for some long tears and some holy belly laughing! Have to attend to the tonal of today first, work...obligations but tonight I am gonna let 'er rip!
I just meant if you had anger at the time, that could be the cause of seeing others here as being too serious. Maybe others poeple's posts looked serious to you but inside they may not be expereincing that. Then again, maybe there is a lot of seriousness floating around. Either way, laughter is the anitidote. I think its not always just fun and games because then its all gets so irrelevant. But being too serious is really alienating. So a balance between the two, at least from my experience.
Anyway, glad you laugh and often, I can tell actually from some of your pother posts here. Hope you bust a gut tonight! I hurt my back (again) so its time to pull out the comedy vids and enjoy (whilst lying immobile for as long as possible).

[Wei Shan Yang]

pother posts



other posts

[Guest]

Wei: Kaomea, thanks for the response. You said naguals can love with no expectation in return, but some may not be at that point yet and instead still evolving to get past anger, resentment, hurt. These qualities you describe, I see them in any person that has a great deal of spiritual determination and desire for experiencing unity, totality. So by your description I'd be a nagual.



@Wei: You would be correct however you missed the most important part of what I said. I said "Not because they are special, but because of their capacity to love with no expectation of anything in return." Everyone is on a spiritual path. Some are just more advanced than others. But those who were chosen as naguals are those marked by their capacity to love. It is on a larger scale than others. I'll explain more below.



Wei: Kaomea: "Everyone deserves knowledge if that is what they want and the naguals are there to ultimately provide what others are looking for. Stability, protection, and love."



Wei: I have received knowledge from those who call themselves naguals, from those who don't, and also have insights come directly (not from a person). Stability, protection and love. My family and friends provide that. Without them I'd be utterly despondent, particularly the loved ones I'm closest to. They are the glue that holds me together, and from this I feel secure to explore the universe.



You are right. It is exactly this kind of love that the naguals are trying to perpetuate. Feeling stable, protected, and loved not only comes from naguals but also from friends and family. There is a difference between what your family and loved ones do for you and what the naguals can do for you. Naguals are working on a larger scale. They are trying to bring large groups people together to formulate a united consiousness on a grand scale. They need more people to feel like you but to also build and expand their spiritual bridges with one another. Cohesiveness is the key, but think larger than just your families, friend, and community. It goes beyond just a single continent. It is an effort for them to unite the entire world in an effort of love. Of course not everyone will follow but so long as there is enough, whatever is out there (including the inorganics) won't be able to co-exist with us. There will be too much love for them to remain here.



It's all about the love baby... but on an enormous scale.

[Gonzo]

I'm not sure where this definition of a Nagual comes from. What is being described might easily be said to be a Bodhisattva.
 

From Wikipedia:It is anyone who, motivated by great compassion, has generated bodhicitta, which is a spontaneous wish to attain Buddhahood for the benefit of all sentient beings.


Nowhere within the works of Castaneda, in my understanding, is a Nagual described in the terms being used here. If we are to use don Juan and his lineage as examples of a Nagual, then I've never encountered one.

[Guest]

@Gonzo: Hmmm ".... for the benefit of all sentient beings." I see a difference here between Bodhisattva and a nagual. Naguals don't do what they do for all sentient beings, I believe the inorganics are not part of their equation. But of course I could be easily mistaken.



Just because you have never encountered a nagual does not mean the are non-existent. There could be many reasons why you haven't encountered one. Maybe you are not looking for them, maybe you have found them but are unable to recognize them, or possibly you have found them but refuse to recognize them as such. Work to build bridges with others and work on the common good. Help others out of love and don't resist accepting their own love for you. Then you will find what you're looking for. MUAH for you for being you.

[Lunoor]

Wei, I hope your back is getting better quick, peace momma : D, just laugh lightly till it heals!

[Wei Shan Yang]

Thanks : ) Yes its doing better today which is a surprise its healing faster than usual. Peace and laughter back at ya!

[Wei Shan Yang]

Kaomea wrote:You are right. It is exactly this kind of love that the naguals are trying to perpetuate. Feeling stable, protected, and loved not only comes from naguals but also from friends and family. There is a difference between what your family and loved ones do for you and what the naguals can do for you.For example?

[Guest]

@ Wei: I explained it:



There is a difference between what your family and loved ones do for you and what the naguals can do for you. Naguals are working on a larger scale. They are trying to bring large groups people together to formulate a united consiousness on a grand scale. They need more people to feel like you but to also build and expand their spiritual bridges with one another. Cohesiveness is the key, but think larger than just your families, friend, and community. It goes beyond just a single continent. It is an effort for them to unite the entire world in an effort of love. Of course not everyone will follow but so long as there is enough, whatever is out there (including the inorganics) won't be able to co-exist with us. There will be too much love for them to remain here.



It's all about the love baby... but on an enormous scale.

[Guest]

In case that causes confusion or isn't clear... just picture many many people living the way you... in love, stability, and protection. In the end, it simply means less people to piss you off. Wouldn't that improve your life?

[Wei Shan Yang]

"just picture many many people living the way you... in love, stability, and protection. In the end, it simply means less people to piss you off. Wouldn't that improve your life? "



Well, I'm not stable. I said earlier if I lost those I love I would be utterly despondent. So I'm dependent on my loved ones. They make the world beautiful for me, at the very least. I had a dream last night I was dying, and my experience was I was desperately sad to leave a particular loved one alone. I felt more for this loved one's loneliness than I felt for my own demise. It was a horrible feeling. And in that I realized how much I cared for this person's happiness.





I'm not concerned with the idea of whether a nagual can help others not piss me off, lol. If I get pissed off, I just need to look at whats happening in my perception. Granted having people be nice to one another is a very pleasant experience and I welcome it. But we can learn things from interactions that challenge us too, which in turn does help us all get along better.

[Guest]

Wei, I agree very much so with you when you say challenges make us grow. The tougher the challenge the bigger the change.

[Wei Shan Yang]

"Wei, I agree very much so with you when you say challenges make us grow."



What do we ultimately grow into in your view? What's the most a non-nagual person can achieve growth-wise? Their highest attainment/realization, IYO?

[Guest]

Wei: What do we ultimately grow into in your view? What's the most a non-nagual person can achieve growth-wise? Their highest attainment/realization, IYO?



At the end I see all non-naguals becoming exactly the same as naguals. Free. That is the end goal isn't it? The title of nagual is nothing extraordinary or special. All it means is they get the extra work of showing and teaching others the way to freedom. The ultimate goal for naguals and both non-naguals is the freedom to see everything for what it is. Energy. In my own opinion, I would prefer to be a non-nagual, the work load is less. Although I'm taking a guess here but I'd imagine for the naguals, leading others to their ultimate destiny and to freedom would be very satisfying. It's like seeing your children to grow up into exceptional adults. For the naguals, I bet they would love to see their children (followers in this case) outshine them. The pride and joy it would bring would be undescribable.

[Wei Shan Yang]

"Free. That is the end goal isn't it?"



To me it's realizing there is no "other". Non-duality. I am that, that is me. At first a framework is needed, but paradoxically it has to then be dismantled. A framework at first to build distinctions to examine existence, then dismantling to unify everything again. Not sure how long this takes or if the goal is ever reached, but its my path with heart so I follow it. Its like this for me...the world is so enormous and complex out there...seeming to be doing its own thing, and in the same incomprehensible way its just me, me being something undefinable (the impersonal).

[Gonzo]

@kaomea



One of the reasons I may never have encountered a Nagual is they don't exist, in much the same fashion that Jesus or Buddha don't exist. That is, perhaps a remarkable person existed at one time however, what we have now are exaggerated fables.



It's conceivable all of Castaneda is a fable, and the figure of the Nagual is an ideal. After all, don Juan was quite clear about the goal of his teachings and it is almost always ignored. The goal was not to become a Nagual; the goal was to reach the totality of oneself, as stated in "Tales of Power".

[Gonzo]

Kaomea wrote:In case that causes confusion or isn't clear... just picture many many people living the way you... in love, stability, and protection. In the end, it simply means less people to piss you off. Wouldn't that improve your life? In my opinion, the primary reason we are in human form is to learn.  We are presented with a circumstance in which anything conceivable can be attempted.   That rules out nothing.  As Crowley stated, "Do what thou wilt shall be the sum of the law."  There are no rules.  Morality is man made.  Love, stability, protection, honor, justice are no more valid than hatred, murder, dishonesty and chaos.  Look around you...real life is made up of both the horrors and the delights.  Real life is comprised of all things, not just those things you like.  And ultimately, life is a tragedy, as Shakespeare has illustrated - it ends in death.
We're here for the drama, and drama is driven by conflict.  Nobody really wants peace, because peace is ultimately boring.

[Eilias123]

I jsut wanted to say, sorry for my behavior a few days ago. i am going through a very odd transition period and don't always see things clearly.