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Perspective
"You post here to promote your agenda, which is not nagualism, it's as simple as that.'




My agenda is to understand what is "out there." If I compare the Qabala, the Bible and Nagualism it is because I see parallels between them. I cannot
see the same parallels in other systems of knowledge because I have no experience with them and very little knowledge of them.




But I realized something last night at work about what we were discussing.


The only thing that is mentioned in don Juan's system that appears to be beyond the Eagle is the Tyrant. You kind of helped me understand this better,
again.




Why do they stop there do you think?




"Well, since we all know that the point of the Eagle is to get past it, that they don't "stop" there, I'll just chock that up to more of
the same anti-nagualist disinformation you've been posting."




Since you are correct that they didn't stop there, then the only thing I can figure is the the goal in sneaking past the Eagle was to reach the Tyrant.




Remember the three things don Juan said about the Tyrant are that it was:




The primal source of energy.


The source of everything.


The one and only ruler in the universe.




Again I say that this is the same definition that fits the first Emanation on the Tree of life. The point inside the circle. The incomprehensible Head and a
whole lot of other names from a lot of other traditions as well. In a word, it is God. That is a pretty general term, but it is accurate nonetheless.


By the way, in the Qabalistic system it is said that if you become one with a Sephirah (Emanation) what you think in mind becomes manifest in matter. How does
don Juan say that? When your commands become the Eagle's commands, wasn't it something like that?


And if you become one with the First Sephirah, Kether, the primal source of energy, the source of everything, you will unmanifest bodily.


Hey, where else did I hear that? Wasn't it from don Juan? Don't you have to get past the Eagle to get a glimse of the unknowable in order for all of
your emanations to light up and so that you can unmanifest bodily?




I think that is a good goal and I'm all for it. It is the right direction in which to point people and so I say that I am pro Nagualism according to don
Juan's teachings.




Where are you missing the reasoning here?


Or is it that you don't believe what I am saying?


Or what Carlos wrote that don Juan said?




Or is it that you are unwilling to admit to yourself that don Juan believed in God?




You can change your ideas about don Juan, or you can change your ideas about God. Either one will work.


There is no problem here. I see no discrepancies.


Only an unwillingness to admit you might be wrong.
Reply
Bob May wrote:

Or is it that you are unwilling to admit to yourself that don Juan believed in God?





You're like the loser who used have a girlfriend but got dumped; so you started stalking her, telling everyone you just want to be friends, but in
reality you're after nothing but revenge.
Reply
Bob,




I have no recollection about the Tyrant/God concept from CC's books. Can you provide some reference (book/chapter).
Reply
CC quotes:





Juan Matus didn't give a *** about 'Carlos Castaneda'. He was interested in that other being, the energy body ---what sorcerers call "the
double". That's what he wanted to awaken. You use your Double to dream, to navigate in the second attention. That's what pulls you to freedom.
'I trust that the Double will do its duty,' he said. 'I will do anything for it---to help it awaken.'



"You know, they always said people have this split between mind and body---this imbalance, this 'mindbody problem.' But the real dichotomy is
between physical body and energy body. We die without having ever awakened that magical Double, and it hates us for that. It hates us so much it eventually
kills us. That's the whole 'secret' of sorcery: accessing the Double for abstract flight. Sorcerers jump into the void of pure perception with
their energy body."
Reply
Or is it that you are unwilling to admit to yourself that don Juan believed in God?


I see no evidence for that. you can say that God is everything that is or God is the sea of awareness,


but what's the point then in believing in God anyway. God is a label and anyone can describe it


as it suits him, which means everyone believes in God in the end but they cannot agree upon what he is


and what to do about it.
Reply
Hi seeitall,




"I see no evidence for that. you can say that God is everything that is or God is the sea of awareness,


but what's the point then in believing in God anyway"




Nothing exist for you unless you believe in it. And no explanation will help if you do not believe in the concept. If I see a concept stated from more than one
source, (especially apparently disconnected sources) it adds credibility to that concept.


Therefore, if "beyond the Eagle" is your said goal, the more you learn about that concept, the more likely you are to believe that it exists and that
belief is necessary to attain it. You will never reach it unless you believe it exists.




"God is a label and anyone can describe it"




That's the problem we all do that but our descriptions do not match each other's and so we are not communicating while thinking we are.


Anyone can make up a label and any name or number will do. But if the definition and the label of anything match, (not just God but anything) people can then
comunicate about that concept. The more specific the label the more precise the communication. I am using God as a very general term.


Like I said, the specific terms here are Eheieh, The Point, The Incomprehensible Head etc., etc. There are other terms in other philosophies and Mystic systems
which match this concept also.


My points here are more along the lines of having discovered some very "specific "concepts" in don Juan's philosophy or system of knowledge
that are also contained within another system of knowledge, the Qabala.




Any good book on spiritual subject, because of their intrinsically abstract nature, start out by stating definitions. That is necessary because everyone
throws these terms around willy nilly and no one is meaning what the other person thinks they are saying.


This is what I like about don Juan's teaching methods. He spent hours upon hours laying out explanations for his terminology. So that there would be no
mistake.




"as it suits him,.."




My point exactly!




"Which means everyone believes in God in the end but they cannot agree upon what he is"


and what to do about it."




No, it means that everyone is saying that they either do or don't believe in God, not knowing that none of them are meaning the same thing when they use
that word, and not knowing what to do about That.
Reply
Hi Seeitall,




"I have no recollection about the Tyrant/God concept from CC's books. Can you provide some reference (book/chapter)."




Yeah, I was suprised I had missed it after reading the book several times.


It is just a few lines on pg. 17 in the Petty Tyrants chapter 2.


An important concept in my opinion.












dreamways
Reply
Hi Seeitall,




"Juan Matus didn't give a *** about 'Carlos Castaneda'."




I don't know if he did or didn't. If Carlos acted the way he portrayed himself in the books, he would not have been my best friend either.


But I think don Juan felt and tried to live up to the responsibility to a student either way. It didn't mean he had to go out for beers with him on
weekends.




"You know, they always said people have this split between mind and body---this imbalance, this 'mindbody problem.' But the real dichotomy is
between physical body and energy body. We die without having ever awakened that magical Double,"




We have lots of splits and dichotomies.




" and it hates us for that. It hates us so much it eventually kills us."




You even talk about it as if it were a separate personaility. That indicates a split right there.




" That's the whole 'secret' of sorcery: accessing the Double for abstract flight. Sorcerers jump into the void of pure perception with their
energy body."




One of them anyway.
Reply
Hi Dreamways,




"You're like the loser who used have a girlfriend but got dumped; so you started stalking her, telling everyone you just want to be friends, but in
reality you're after nothing but revenge."




Hey, you know that fantasy world your living in,...are there rides?




Sorry, I heard that line in a movie the other night and couldn't wait to use it somewhere.
Reply
Bob May wrote:

Nothing exist for you unless you believe in it. And no explanation will help if you do not believe in the concept. If I see a concept stated from more than
one source, (especially apparently disconnected sources) it adds credibility to that concept.


Therefore, if "beyond the Eagle" is your said goal, the more you learn about that concept, the more likely you are to believe that it exists and
that belief is necessary to attain it. You will never reach it unless you believe it exists.


That's in the world of the tonal, the world of words and beliefs, things need our permission to exist. Within the nagual, it does not matter what you
believe, it is you who need permission to exist there. Bob is so disconnected from the nagual, he thinks everything is the tonal, even god. He has to believe
in his god, because his god is just an idea rolling around in his head, his god is just a word, powerless without Bob's belief to prop it up. Belief is
for atheists, it supports their reality.
Reply
"Within the nagual, it does not matter what you believe, it is you who need permission to exist there."




Maybe so. But if you do not believe it is there, whatever it is, you will not strive to reach it.


That is my point.


Why would you strive for something that you believe does not exist? And how much effort would they put into it?
Reply
Bob May wrote:

"Within the nagual, it does not matter what you believe, it is you who need permission to exist there."




Maybe so. But if you do not believe it is there, whatever it is, you will not strive to reach it. That is my point. Why would you strive for something that
you believe does not exist? And how much effort would they put into it?

Try not believing in air, see if that stops you from breathing.
Reply
"Try not believing in air, see if that stops you from breathing."




Why would I try not believing in something I know exists?




Try not making an ass of yourself.
Reply
Bob May wrote:

"Try not believing in air, see if that stops you from breathing."




Why would I try not believing in something I know exists?


Try not making an ass of yourself.


See, I knew you were just a spiteful turd underneath it all.
Reply
Bob May wrote:

"Try not believing in air, see if that stops you from breathing."




Why would I try not believing in something I know exists?


Try not making an ass of yourself.


"See, I knew you were just a spiteful turd underneath it all.
"




Spiteful? No. Turd, (maybe) but it was a serious suggestion.


I was enjoying the disscusion up to a point and would like it to continue as a serious discussion. If not, so be it. You seem to think someone is trying to get
something over on you. I'm not. I am just relating my views based upon my opinions which necessarily are going to reflect my strudies and experiences. Same
as you. That seems to offend you. So be it. It is not my intention.




"No one is doing anything to anyone." Don Juan said this to Carlos and I have always tried to take this to heart, though I fail often.


"My teacher had a similar saying, "A mystic never uses his energy against himself." This, also I try to practice, though again, often fail at.


Both are good advice.
Reply
Bob May wrote:

I was enjoying the disscusion up to a point...

And you think I give a ****?
Reply
A nagual with power discovers a hole. He however realizes once he jumps in the hole he will not return ever. So its better to bring along others to travel with
and who bring strength and power also. Naguals are no fools.
Reply
"The Fire From Within" , chapter 2 , 'Petty Tyrants'




chapter 6: "...there is no God. Only the Eagle's emanations , and there is no way to make promises to them."




Now, dear friends , as you may know , one of my catchphrases is Absolutism Is False , by which I mean that as mortal beings, we have no final knowledge , and
must be fluid and open to new perceptions. That goes for Atheism as well as Religion. Although Castaneda wrote the above as don Juan's statement, there
are many other statements that might put it in different context , within Castaneda's narrative. I arrived at my position from the study of not only
Castaneda, but others such as J Krishnamurti , and other transcendentalists, psychiatrists and theologists , such as Ralph Waldo Emerson and Ernest Holmes.




I am quite convinced that whatever a God might be, as a mortal I will never know , that God is of the Unknowable , as it should be , and that all I have to
discern is the Effects of the creation.




Another of my catchphrases is that--when I think I know who or what God is , it is no longer God. As God is unknowable , the known is not God.


Maybe that's just my conceit , but consider the benefits that humanity could gain from such an attitude. No more excuses for sabre-rattling religious
and cultural fundamentalists!
Reply
"I am quite convinced that whatever a God might be, as a mortal I will never know , that God is of the Unknowable , as it should be , and that all I have
to discern is the Effects of the creation. "




Yes, or of Emanation.




"Another of my catchphrases is that--when I think I know who or what God is , it is no longer God. As God is unknowable , the known is not God."




Yes




"Maybe that's just my conceit , but consider the benefits that humanity could gain from such an attitude. No more excuses for sabre-rattling religious
and cultural fundamentalists!"




One thing that we learn early on the that the notion that God is some big guy in the sky is wrong.


One thing that I think we can all agree on is that the Unknowable is the Ultimate source of all there is..


Many times the problem is only names and words.




"... as a mortal I will never know , that God is of the Unknowable , as it should be , and that all I have to discern is the Effects of the creation...
"


I think after death the same rule applies.
Reply
Hawkeye Crow wrote:

6: "...there is no God. Only the Eagle's emanations , and there is no way to make promises to them."
There is a force that makes atoms become molecules, and molecules become living things, and living things become aware, and awareness become free.
I don't think it matters if you call it the eagle's emanations or god, it's still going to keep doing its thing.
Reply
"There is a force that makes atoms become molecules, and molecules become living things, and living things become aware, and awareness become free. I
don't think it matters if you call it the eagle's emanations or god, it's still going to keep doing its thing."




That's true.
Reply
Emanations=Effects? OK?




Well, some force put this universe together , I agree. For awhile , I thought I could identify it , and thought I had at one time. Kind of a unity theory ,
like physicists seek. Too bad, as I found out there is no unity in human thinking.




I did discover that prayer and treatments (such as taught by 'The Secret') only intensified my desires and damn near drove me nuts. Those prayers were
never answered , anyway, and what I thought were answered prayers weren't at all.




The idea of becoming available to spirit (emanations, effects?) works better for me. It is a meditation practice , to stop thoughts and make room for
inspiration and new answers.




"YOU CANNOT PETITION THE LORD WITH PRAYER!" Jim Morrison
Reply
"The idea of becoming available to spirit (emanations, effects?) works better for me. It is a meditation practice , to stop thoughts and make room for
inspiration and new answers."




Ever hear of "silent prayer?"




However you understand it, to realize that you are immersed in a ("quantum soup", a "limitless light", "Nagaul", etc., etc) that
is affected by thought is the key.


There is an interesting experiement I read about.




Photons in a vacume acted as particles. When a single strand of DNA was put into the same enclosure, the photons became smooth waves instead of particles.
When the DNA strand was removed from the enclosure (test tube or whatever?) The particles remained as waves. They did not revert back to their original
particle form.




So if we are DNA, what are we doing to the "Light" we are surrounded by? Whether we know it or not?


Better to know it.
Reply
Bob May wrote:
There is an interesting experiement I read about.
Photons in a vacume acted as particles. When a single strand of DNA was put into the same enclosure, the photons became smooth waves instead of particles. When the DNA strand was removed from the enclosure (test tube or whatever?) The particles remained as waves. They did not revert back to their original particle form.
So if we are DNA, what are we doing to the "Light" we are surrounded by? Whether we know it or not? Better to know it.
That experiment that you read about is unfortunately some kind of urban legend.  Photons are always partilcle-waves, they can be observed as one or the other, but they themselves don't change.  Here's an article about the subject:
Wave–particle duality
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave-particle_duality
In physics and chemistry, wave–particle duality is the concept that all matter and energy exhibits both wave-like and particle-like properties. A central concept of quantum mechanics, duality addresses the inadequacy of classical concepts like "particle" and "wave" in fully describing the behaviour of small scale objects. Various interpretations of quantum mechanics attempt to explain this ostensible paradox.
The idea of duality is rooted in a debate over the nature of light and matter dating back to the 1600s, when competing theories of light were proposed by Christiaan Huygens and Isaac Newton. Through the work of Albert Einstein, Louis de Broglie, and many others, current scientific theory holds that all particles also have a wave nature.[1] This phenomenon has been verified not only for elementary particles, but also for compound particles like atoms and even molecules. In fact, according to traditional formulations of non-relativistic quantum mechanics, wave–particle duality applies to all objects, even macroscopic ones; we can't detect wave properties of macroscopic objects due to their small wavelengths.[2] 

At the close of the 19th century, the case for atomic theory, that matter was made of particulate objects or atoms, was well established. Electricity, first thought to be a fluid, was now understood to consist of particles called electrons, as demonstrated by J. J. Thomson who, led by his research into the work of Ernest Rutherford, had discovered using cathode rays that an electrical charge would actually travel across a vacuum from cathode to anode. In brief, it was understood that much of nature was made of particles. At the same time, waves were well understood, together with wave phenomena such as diffraction and interference. Light was believed to be a wave, as Thomas Young's double-slit experiment and effects such as Fraunhofer diffraction had clearly demonstrated the wave-like nature of light.
But as the 20th century turned, problems had emerged. Albert Einstein's analysis of the photoelectric effect in 1905 demonstrated that light also possessed particle-like properties, and this was further confirmed with the discovery of the Compton scattering in 1923. Later on, the diffraction of electrons would be predicted and experimentally confirmed, thus showing that electrons must have wave-like properties in addition to particle properties.
This confusion over particle versus wave properties was eventually resolved with the advent and establishment of quantum mechanics in the first half of the 20th century, which ultimately explained wave–particle duality. It provided a single unified theoretical framework for understanding that all matter may have characteristics associated with particles and waves, as explained below. By the very end of the 20th century extremely precise results were obtained quantifying this duality, in the form of the Englert-Greenberger duality relation.
Huygens and Newton
The earliest comprehensive theory of light was advanced by Christiaan Huygens, who proposed a wave theory of light, and in particular demonstrated how waves might interfere to form a wavefront, propagating in a straight line. However, the theory had difficulties in other matters, and was soon overshadowed by Isaac Newton's corpuscular theory of light. That is, Newton proposed that light consisted of small particles, with which he could easily explain the phenomenon of reflection. With considerably more difficulty, he could also explain refraction through a lens, and the splitting of sunlight into a rainbow by a prism. Newton's particle viewpoint went essentially unchallenged for over a century.[3]
Young, Fresnel, and Maxwell
In the early 1800s, the double-slit experiments by Young and Fresnel provided evidence for Huygens' wave theories. The double-slit experiments showed that when light is sent through a grid, a characteristic interference pattern is observed, very similar to the pattern resulting from the interference of water waves; the wavelength of light can be computed from such patterns. The wave view did not immediately displace the ray and particle view, but began to dominate scientific thinking about light in the mid 1800s, since it could explain polarization phenomena that the alternatives could not.
In the late 1800s, James Clerk Maxwell explained light as the propagation of electromagnetic waves according to the Maxwell equations. These equations were verified by experiment and Huygens' view became widely accepted. 
Planck's formula for black body radiation
Main article: Planck's law
In 1901, Max Planck published an analysis that succeeded in reproducing the observed spectrum of light emitted by a glowing object. To accomplish this, Planck had to make an ad hoc mathematical assumption of quantized energy of the oscillators (atoms of the blackbody) that emit radiation. It was Einstein who later proposed that it is the electromagnetic radiation itself that is quantized, and not the energy of radiating atoms.
Einstein's explanation of the photoelectric effect
Main article: Photoelectric effect 
In 1905, Albert Einstein provided an explanation of the photoelectric effect, a hitherto troubling experiment that the wave theory of light seemed incapable of explaining. He did so by postulating the existence of photons, quanta of light energy with particulate qualities.
In the photoelectric effect, it was observed that shining a light on certain metals would lead to an electric current in a circuit. Presumably, the light was knocking electrons out of the metal, causing current to flow. However, it was also observed that while a dim blue light was enough to cause a current, even the strongest, brightest red light caused no current at all. According to wave theory, the strength or amplitude of a light wave was in proportion to its brightness: a bright light should have been easily strong enough to create a large current. Yet, oddly, this was not so.
Einstein explained this conundrum by postulating that the electrons can receive energy from electromagnetic field only in discrete portions (quanta that were called photons): an amount of energy E that was related to the frequency, f of the light by
where h is Planck's constant (6.626 × 10-34 J seconds). Only photons of a high-enough frequency, (above a certain threshold value) could knock an electron free. For example, photons of blue light had sufficient energy to free an electron from the metal, but photons of red light did not. More intense light above the threshold frequency could release more electrons, but no amount of light below the threshold frequency could release an electron.
Einstein was awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1921 for his theory of the photoelectric effect.
De Broglie's hypothesis
Main article: de Broglie hypothesis
In 1924, Louis-Victor de Broglie formulated the de Broglie hypothesis, claiming that all matter,[4][5] not just light, has a wave-like nature; he related wavelength (denoted as λ), and momentum (denoted as p):
This is a generalization of Einstein's equation above, since the momentum of a photon is given by p = and the wavelength by λ = , where c is the speed of light in vacuum.
De Broglie's formula was confirmed three years later for electrons (which differ from photons in having a rest mass) with the observation of electron diffraction in two independent experiments. At the University of Aberdeen, George Paget Thomson passed a beam of electrons through a thin metal film and observed the predicted interference patterns. At Bell Labs Clinton Joseph Davisson and Lester Halbert Germer guided their beam through a crystalline grid.
De Broglie was awarded the Nobel Prize for Physics in 1929 for his hypothesis. Thomson and Davisson shared the Nobel Prize for Physics in 1937 for their experimental work. 

Heisenberg's uncertainty principle
Main article: Heisenberg uncertainty principle
In his work on formulating quantum mechanics, Werner Heisenberg postulated his uncertainty principle, which states:
where
Δ here indicates standard deviation, a measure of spread or uncertainty;
x and p are a particle's position and linear momentum respectively.
is the reduced Planck's constant (Planck's constant divided by 2π).
Heisenberg originally explained this as a consequence of the process of measuring: Measuring position accurately would disturb momentum and vice-versa, offering an example (the "gamma-ray microscope") that depended crucially on the de Broglie hypothesis. It is now understood, however, that this only partly explains the phenomenon: the uncertainty also exists in the particle itself, even before the measurement is made.
In fact, the modern explanation of the uncertainty principle, extending the Copenhagen interpretation first put forward by Bohr and Heisenberg, depends even more centrally on the wave nature of a particle: Just as it is nonsensical to discuss the precise location of a wave on a string, particles do not have perfectly precise positions; likewise, just as it is nonsensical to discuss the wavelength of a "pulse" wave traveling down a string, particles do not have perfectly precise momenta (which corresponds to the inverse of wavelength). Moreover, when position is relatively well defined, the wave is pulse-like and has a very ill-defined wavelength (and thus momentum). And conversely, when momentum (and thus wavelength) is relatively well defined, the wave looks long and sinusoidal, and therefore it has a very ill-defined position.
De Broglie himself had proposed a pilot wave construct to explain the observed wave–particle duality. In this view, each particle has a well-defined position and momentum, but is guided by a wave function derived from Schrödinger's equation. The pilot wave theory was initially rejected because it generated non-local effects when applied to systems involving more than one particle. Non-locality, however, soon became established as an integral feature of quantum theory (see EPR paradox), and David Bohm extended de Broglie's model to explicitly include it. In Bohmian mechanics,[6] the wave–particle duality is not a property of matter itself, but an appearance generated by the particle's motion subject to a guiding equation or quantum potential.
[edit] Wave behavior of large objects
Since the demonstrations of wave-like properties in photons and electrons, similar experiments have been conducted with neutrons and protons. Among the most famous experiments are those of Estermann and Otto Stern in 1929.[citation needed] Authors of similar recent experiments with atoms and molecules, described below, claim that these larger particles also act like waves.
A dramatic series of experiments emphasizing the action of gravity in relation to wave–particle duality were conducted in the 1970s using the neutron interferometer.[citation needed] Neutrons, one of the components of the atomic nucleus, provide much of the mass of a nucleus and thus of ordinary matter. In the neutron interferometer, they act as quantum-mechanical waves directly subject to the force of gravity. While the results were not surprising since gravity was known to act on everything, including light (see tests of general relativity and the Pound-Rebka falling photon experiment), the self-interference of the quantum mechanical wave of a massive fermion in a gravitational field had never been experimentally confirmed before.
In 1999, the diffraction of C60 fullerenes by researchers from the University of Vienna was reported.[7] Fullerenes are comparatively large and massive objects, having an atomic mass of about 720 u. The de Broglie wavelength is 2.5 pm, whereas the diameter of the molecule is about 1 nm, about 400 times larger. As of 2005, this is the largest object for which quantum-mechanical wave-like properties have been directly observed in far-field diffraction.
In 2003 the Vienna group also demonstrated the wave nature of tetraphenylporphyrin[8] – a flat biodye with an extension of about 2 nm and a mass of 614 u. For this demonstration they employed a near-field Talbot Lau interferometer.[9][10] In the same interferometer they also found interference fringes for C60F48., a fluorinated buckyball with a mass of about 1600 u, composed of 108 atoms[8] Large molecules are already so complex that they give experimental access to some aspects of the quantum-classical interface, i.e. to certain decoherence mechanisms.[11][12]
Whether objects heavier than the Planck mass (about the weight of a large bacterium) have a de Broglie wavelength is theoretically unclear and experimentally unreachable; above the Planck mass a particle's Compton wavelength would be smaller than the Planck length and its own Schwarzschild radius, a scale at which current theories of physics may break down or need to be replaced by more general ones.[13]
Treatment in modern quantum mechanics
Wave–particle duality is deeply embedded into the foundations of quantum mechanics, so well that modern practitioners rarely discuss it as such. In the formalism of the theory, all the information about a particle is encoded in its wave function, a complex function roughly analogous to the amplitude of a wave at each point in space. This function evolves according to a differential equation (generically called the Schrödinger equation), and this equation gives rise to wave-like phenomena such as interference and diffraction.
The particle-like behavior is most evident due to phenomena associated with measurement in quantum mechanics. Upon measuring the location of the particle, the wave-function will randomly "collapse" to a sharply peaked function at some location, with the likelihood of any particular location equal to the squared amplitude of the wave-function there. The measurement will return a well-defined position, a property traditionally associated with particles.
Reply
dreamways wrote:


Hawkeye Crow
wrote:

6: "...there is no God. Only the Eagle's emanations , and there is no way to make promises to them."
There is a force that makes atoms become molecules, and molecules become living things, and living things become aware, and awareness become
free. I don't think it matters if you call it the eagle's emanations or god, it's still going to keep doing its thing.


I forgot to add that, every threshold between levels of manifestation within creation, seem impossible, yet there they are. It's like, how could it be
possible that matter, time and energy would just suddenly appear out of nothing, start constructing beings, and that those beings would become self aware no
less. The next step for living things is as mind boggling as the creation of life itself.
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