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Nu Lang wrote:
Yes, Bob, well I just don't hear many people on these forums telling their own tales is all. But maybe thats mostly due to it being a public arena...thats the very main reason we have the Inner Landscape available to those who want to get more personal. I envisioned it as a place to lose the human form, by being human in all its colors.I didn't know there was such a forum. But I am not being personal in the strict sense of the word. I would enjoy nothing more than to see some other people experience some of the specific experiences that I have had. And to come to some of the same conclusions I have.
It's all a gift. Why keep it to myself?
It is not my tale. It is me sharing things that have happened to me and what I've learned from that.
Those things are gifts that are available to anyone.
Besides, swapping ideas with others on these subjects always brings more new things to mind.
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"I didn't know there was such a forum."
You were just added...check it out. If you are not into being personal...you may not like it...as its mostly about 'us' rather than what we read.
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Bob May wrote:
Nu Lang wrote:
Yes, Bob, well I just don't hear many people on these forums telling their own tales is all. But maybe thats mostly due to it being a public arena...thats the very main reason we have the Inner Landscape available to those who want to get more personal. I envisioned it as a place to lose the human form, by being human in all its colors.I didn't know there was such a forum. But I am not being personal in the strict sense of the word. I would enjoy nothing more than to see some other people experience some of the specific experiences that I have had. And to come to some of the same conclusions I have.
It's all a gift. Why keep it to myself?
It is not my tale. It is me sharing things that have happened to me and what I've learned from that.
Those things are gifts that are available to anyone.
Besides, swapping ideas with others on these subjects always brings more new things to mind.
It's a gift. Why keep it to myself?
I hope Bob May and Lex could share their spiritual experiences here in a new and different light.
I have been waiting for Lex to extract his spiritual experiences for well over five years now. lol I thought you both had similar backgrounds and spiritual experiences enough to come together and share "unknowable" things.
Ninth
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Bob May wrote:
Enchantra wrote:
Are you all saying JC was an Old Seer?
Not at all. Jesus was God come to earth. Or the Son of God. But he was and still is a teacher of seers.
I suppose I would call him the ultimate Man of Knowledge while he was here on earth, if I had to put it into Don Juan's terms.
But he was and is much more than that.
There were Prophets in the Old Testament and the New Testament but they did not mess with inorganics, though they could see them.
One was caught up into heaven, Elijah. Elisha, his student I believe raised the dead. Enoch "walked with God and Was Not for God took him." Some very powerful men.
There were also Sorcerer's in both the Old and New Testaments. They did mess with inorganics and other such things. so they could be roughly equated with the Old Seers, I suppose.
I suppose they would be close to what Don Juan called the Old Seers but a much different lineage being that they were from the Middle East. Such knowledge was taught in Egypt and Greece and the regions around Mesopotamia.
JC was likened to the village shaman. He too set the old sorcerers free.
Simon the sorcerer shows up in the New Testament in Acts 8: 9-24
9) But there was a certain man, called Simon which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria giving out that himself was some gret one:
10) To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying , This man is the great power of God.
11) And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.
12) But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
13) Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
14) Now when the apostles which were at Jersusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15) Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Spirit:
16) ( For, as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17) Then laid they their hands onthem, and they received the Holy Spirit.
18) And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money.
19) Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Spirit.
20) But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
21) Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
22) Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
23) For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.
24) Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.
Simon used his sorcery for ill gains. Self seeking glory was the source of sorcery. When Simon saw the acting of the Holy Spirit in peoples lives being healed and filled with unspoken joy, he wanted to get what others had. His heart was not in the right place for receiving the free gift of the Holy Spirit. Peter discerned with the power of the Holy Spirit that Simon was still in the bondage of iniquity. Iniquity are generational curses that separates one from fully knowing Truth.
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Ok we have one (A true nagual) amid us but its certainly not my fault nor can I do anything about the fact its not seen. NL
NL, I assume you are referring to LW here, correct me if I am wrong. Now does this nagual abide by the Rule detailed by CC in Eagle's gift, or is he beyond such things and goes his own way? Please understand I am not advocating for the Rule here. Just assessing "foundations" and how people choose to abide or deviate at their pleasure from any and all "foundations". Which is fine by me if we are aware that that is indeed the case.
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the nagual is inside everyone( it for us to find it out.)
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Sad to see I am already being misunderstood. I know its a very difficult topic...to point a true nagual out. Raises red flags. I only did it because action is the next step for all of us, I feel. I mean what else would we do...keep theorizing? For the rest of our lives...not me. I plan to become a true nagual. There are nagual beings...and there are true naguals. Nagual beings (us) all have potential to become true naguals. But its about action. You can't talk your way into it, or become one simply by mapping it out in one's head.
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Sad to see I am already being misunderstood. NL
What has led you to believe you are being misunderstood?
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I was thinking of a word when I opened my laptop this morning and that word was "foundation" and now I find it here. The rules of the eagle's gift is indeed a foundation for a nagual being. Above the rule? Me? No, never. However, rule or no rule one must go forward. Alone or with others. Many never make it based on their energy past the eagle to the the worlds beyond its shadow. The foundation of the teachings of Don Juan were many and laid out over several books. The Eagle's Gift and the revealing of the flyer are to me the two main cornerstones/foundation to nagualism. The foundation is becoming a warrior, creating and connecting with the double, learning to stalk power, defeating the flyer, losing the human form and abiding by the eagle's rule if one seeks to escape death. I myself have always believed there is nagual beings in all life forms of the earth and most of them have no knowledge of the rule. The foundation of sorcery is not based on the rule but it can be. My humble opinion only Lex.
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LW,
I know this is where you are coming from. I did pay attention when you had mentioned that you had burned from within! Other than myself you are the only other person I have come across that has even dared to claim such a thing. I have much to say in this regard but people are having a hard time with stuff I have been expressing.
I understand the sort of flexibility you outline regarding the Rule, but there are many others that would not. How you became secure in your position on this and do not feel pressed to “act” and speak in ways that others would find appropriate to their idea of the Rule might be informative. But why wouldn’t this sort of flexibility put you above the Rule, which I do not have a problem with. After all the Rule was a gift to mankind, man was not made for the Rule.
And yes there are naguals in many different types of beings that may not know of any Rule.
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Lex,
The rule was the eagles's gift to warriors. The rule to me comes in two parts. The first part defines the eagle and what is its requirements. The second part of the rule concerns the nagual party of warriors. The second part I have more problem with as it sets powerful restrictions and requirements on the formation of the group. I truly endorse the first part and test the second part. Why? Because I have too being that assembling the party required by the eagle can be a daunting and near impossible at least for me. It is my belief the forming of the nagual party is more of a addition of the toltec ritual system and added by men more than handed now down by the eagle to men. What is your opinion on this I would certainly like to know?
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I have much to say in this regard but people are having a hard time with stuff I have been expressing.
For me, Lex, it feels as though you have a lot to say but when those joining in the thread say something apart from what you have to say, you're the one that has a hard time with it.
"People" aren't having a hard time with what you're expressing; "people" are expressing their own experience of the topic at hand.
A rule keeper can easily get tripped up by the practice of keeping the rules---whether that be rules in theory, rules in syntax, rules of conversation, even rules of meta-communication.
The thread is a good one---meaning it has, for me, enhanced my understanding of new seers and old seers. One of the things I've experienced and learned from the thread is that my experience can't really be aligned with anyone else's---precisely---and the comfort level that I have with those differences will be directly proportional to how I'm able to take the experience in.
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Jessicar,
Idiots also have much to say also! So what sets me apart from an ****?
You say people are not having a hard time with what I am expressing, they are just expressing their own experience with the topic at hand.
No they (you) are having a hard time with what I am expressing. For most it is inconceivable (even though it shouldn't be). It is well within our grasp. People take what I say and bend it to their what is familiar to them. I resist this. I sometimes resist it flamboyantly or harshly or with humor but never tame! Every time you or someone else tries to hijack what I am pointing out and relegate it to your paltry existing inventory I get creative. If I have the energy. I will rescue it from your inventory, dust it off and re-present it.
And this sniping at me that goes on is tiresome. The comments that just keep coming that what I am doing, is theoretical, intellectual too rational etc are a waste of time. Sober up! Unless you are able to get a hold of your reason and quit wasting energy on how it is involved with its environment you will keep on deluding yourself, with comments like this,
One of the things I've experienced and learned from the thread is that
my experience can't really be aligned with anyone else's---precisely. Jessicar.
How arrogant, you think yourself so special, that there is non like you....please! Your experience is nothing special and aligns itself perfectly with the predilections of the old seers.
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Nagual LoneWolf wrote:
I was thinking of a word when I opened my laptop this morning and that word was "foundation" and now I find it here. The rules of the eagle's gift is indeed a foundation for a nagual being. Above the rule? Me? No, never. However, rule or no rule one must go forward. Alone or with others. Many never make it based on their energy past the eagle to the the worlds beyond its shadow. The foundation of the teachings of Don Juan were many and laid out over several books. The Eagle's Gift and the revealing of the flyer are to me the two main cornerstones/foundation to nagualism. The foundation is becoming a warrior, creating and connecting with the double, learning to stalk power, defeating the flyer, losing the human form and abiding by the eagle's rule if one seeks to escape death. I myself have always believed there is nagual beings in all life forms of the earth and most of them have no knowledge of the rule. The foundation of sorcery is not based on the rule but it can be. My humble opinion only Lex.Hi Wolf,
I woke up this morning also thinking about "Foundation." It's probably important.
The most powerful (and "highest") experience I ever had seems to be the awareness of the 32nd path of the Tree of life. Symbolised by the "World" or "Universe" Tarot card is the one placed there when the 22 major arcana cards are place on the 22 paths of the Tree. It is a naked woman hovering in a blue expanse of energy surrounded by the four holy living creatures.
I had been meditating on the "Point." It is a Western version of the Thousand Petaled Lotus meditation, but with a "twist" as directed by my teacher. While my consciousness was above my head, I was reachng up as high and as far as I could imagine with my thoughts. At one point I noticed that the sound (usually a pleasant white noise) was building. It gradually built into a Roar while at the same time heat began in my feet and was rising up through my body. The noise and vibration and heat grew tremendous like an earthquake/volcano and I knew I had to get out of my body or die. Either the sound or heat would surely tear me apart and destroy me.
While still keeping my mind above I came out the top of my head as if being born. Something or someone pulled me up at great speed far above what I could imagine. Along the way anytime I had an emotion go through me, I felt as though I was losing control of a race car on a dragstrip.
Finally, I was let go in a blue white liquid lightening. I was "One With" it. The intense heat and roaring was still there but I was not in this frail body, but spread out on this ocean of energy and felt what It felt. I noticed the particles it was made up of. They had a circular motion and all circled toward me.
When I had calmed all emotions the heat and roaring became what can best be described as a Sustained Orgasm of Joy or Ecstacy.
I knew that the Power and Light I was in was the Source of the physical and more powerful than the sun or anything else in earth.
After a time I came down from it and asked my teacher if it was the Kundalini. He said it was "the beginnings of it."
I also asked why such a "High" experience was symbolised by the lowest path/card on the Tree.
He told me that the foundation of anything was the most imporant thing because it carried through every level of the thing.
I have had many experiences since but not so Powerful. There are "residual effects" also. I have to take it easy with meditation as I actually get burnt physically. Mostly my digestive system and tongue.
But the Tarot card, The World and the 32nd Path is the path of the letter Hebrew letter Tov. It signifies a Guarantee, Promise, Mark, Covenant signature.
It was an initiation. And I have been Marked and Guaranteed more to come. I have a signed Covenant and a Promise of more to come which has happened. And I believe I will experience that plane? Sephirah? again.
What I am describing here is just a taste of the Serpent Fire called in the East, Kundalini, in Christianity, the Baptism of Fire or in the Toltec, the Fire From Within, depending on your Foundational school of thought. The "rules" are not important when compared with the experience.
But being a Christian, I have a good idea who pulled me up into that Light.
Joh 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Joh 12:33
This he said, signifying what death he should die.
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That is amazing. A sustained orgasm of joy. this the fire from within ?
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ninth octave wrote:
That is amazing. A sustained orgasm of joy. this the fire from within ?
Like I said a plane of Blue-White Liquid Lightning.
It comes from outside.
Inside the body is another matter altogether. It can kill or cure or burn up everything that is of the lower nature.
You cannot put new wine in old bottles lest the bottle burst and both the wine and bottle are lost.
But it is an ongoing process.
Lu 12:49
I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
Mt 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
One Baptism three stages.
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you burned from within, i find this hard to believe, then why are you still here??? Epicwynn
So you believe that when someone burns from within they automatically and physically leave the planet and disappear into other realms of existence. This is precisely the sort of thinking I have rallied against for years now. The physical disappearance option is a possibility but the lesser of the possibilities available! Your attachment to this particular interpretation of burning from within will probably keep the option well out of reach for you. Would it surprise you that this is not what DJ was advocating. I cannot answer for why LW is still here after he says he burned from within but I can point out DJ's view on the matter if that helps.
He said, that the old seers, being masters of awareness, applied the expertise to their own glows of awareness and made them expand to inconceivable limits. They actually aimed at lighting up all the emanations inside their cocoons, one band at a time. They succeeded, but oddly enough the accomplishment of lighting up one band at a time was instrumental in their becoming imprisoned in the quagmire of the second attention.
"The new seers corrected that error," he continued, "and let the mastery of awareness develop to its natural end, which is to extend the glow of awareness beyond the bounds of the luminous cocoon in one single stroke.
"The third Attention is attained when the glow of awareness turns into the fire from within; a glow that kindles not one band at a time but all the Eagle's emanations inside man's cocoon."
Don Juan expressed his awe for the new seers' deliberate effort to attain third attention while they are alive and conscious of their individuality.
He did not consider it worthwhile to discuss the random cases of men and other sentient beings who enter into the unknown and the unknowable without being aware of it; he referred to this as the Eagle's gift. He asserted that for the new seers to enter into the third attention is also a gift, but has a different meaning. It is more like a reward for attainment.
He added that at the moment of dying all human beings enter into the unknowable and some of them do attain the third attention, but altogether too briefly and only to purify the food for the Eagle.
"The supreme accomplishment of human being," he said, "is to attain that level of attention while retaining the life force, without becoming disembodied awareness moving like a flicker of light up to the Eagle's beak to be devoured." FFW
Epicwynn, did you catch that?.................without becoming disembodied awareness!
There are other references to this if you know where and how to look. For you to think that when this is accomplished you physically disappear from the planet is understandable, especially after some of the other stuff Carlos wrote and the preliminary conclusions he wove around his findings. But this is the same problem that plagued DJ for years and he he said it should be avoided at all costs!
From then on, he (DJ) had no problem in dealing with the reality of the third attention. The only obstacle in his way arose from his being so thoroughly convinced that the Rule was a map that he believed he had to look for a literal opening in the world, a passageway. Somehow he had become needlessly stuck at the first level of a warrior's development.
Don Juan's own work as a leader and a teacher, as a result, was directed at helping the apprentices, and especialy me, to AVOID REPEATING THAT MISTAKE!
Don Juan said that he spent irreplaceable time pondering the existence of an actual passageway into that other world. He view such concerns as a pitfall to be avoided at all cost. Eagle's Gift.
So you can see you are in good company at this first level of a warriors development. DJ himself spent years there. Reducing third attention realizations to the limits of physically leaving this world and viewing third attention through such a limited lens will just open the door wide to the intricacies of 2nd attention and you will miss how the third attention is available to you right now and you will keep putting it way out of reach for yourself now!
http://sorcery.yuku.com/topic/3030/master/1/
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How is the reality of third attention available to us right now. Is this another meaning for the "glow of awareness" ?
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http://sorcery.yuku.com/topic/3030/master/1/
This is the new link for the Third Attention stuff.
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Lex,
I can see that you have a lot to say. I can also see that you become
defensive and accusatory quite quickly.
Why is that?
No, you don’t have to answer that rhetorical question. Just as I’m guessing that you don’t
really want me to answer your question, “So what sets me apart from an
****?” That question is inflammatory
and seeks to incite reaction.
I’m not having a hard time with what you’re saying. The difficult time I’m having is the
tone with which you say it. This
“tone”—one you’ve been addressed with in the past—is what makes what you’re
saying difficult to hear.
The “tiresome sniping”—could what prompts others' comments
conceivably be something for you to look at in yourself?
And this last comment—“How arrogant, you think yourself so
special”— you know projection as well as I do, I’m sure. Consider that you’re projecting.
My post was not intended to persuade or to convince you of
my perspective. It was meant to
‘speak aloud’ the under current in
some of your posts in this thread that override the content of what you’re
saying.
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Jessicar,
No under current and what you consider defensive in me I consider pure offensive. I am attacking lol. Getting tired of all the sniper fire.
Not trying to make friends or gain followers and I am certainly resisting any and all attempts to corral me into something more civilized.
I think it would be better for you if you just neglected the topic of me. I am really not that interesting but what I say is. I do not care if you do not share that opinion either. If you don't care for what I am talking about and would rather talk about me I am not sure I will have the energy to always respond to you. I am one of my least favorite subjects. Ninth loves me she will talk to you about me all day long. And as for those who find me utterly distasteful I am sure you will find lots to talk about concerning me.
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Jessica said
"I’m not having a hard time with what you’re saying.
The difficult time I’m having is the tone with which you say it. This “tone”—one you’ve been addressed
with in the past—is what makes what you’re saying difficult to hear.
"
I feel the same way... well stated. I wasn't sure really what to say so I just decided to hit ignore!
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Lex,
Your bait and switch doesn't work for me. I addressed what I felt was important for me to address with you.
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Lex.
I think of you as a leader or teacher in this forum. You know I know you've been quite short on your replies to me on the forum as of late. I just figure it is because my comments are totally off the mark or maybe right on with nothing new to say. If some one is totally off like me, point it out and redirect the flow. I like constructive criticism and won't get offended.
If you say "you burn from within" I believe you even though I don't know what that really means yet for me. Please show us how" it is well within our grasp"- even if it seems inconceivable to us.
BTW, I am my least favorite subject to talk about also. You are my second favorite subject.
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