Dream Whispers Coaching

[Guest]

sikimiwa wrote:*take a bow!* and now, back to our programming ...
Don't you mean DE-programming?  Or better yet, RE-programming?

[Guest]

well you have to break it down to build it up again, right?

[Guest]

sikimiwa wrote:well you have to break it down to build it up again, right?
That is one way.

[Guest]

why is it you disregard my questions, and ask again from a public of theirs. what is wrong with my questions?

[quantumshaman]

sikimiwa wrote:
why is it you disregard my questions, and ask again from a public of theirs. what is wrong with my questions? 

Sometimes questions aren't really questions, only cleverly disguised accusations or veiled proposals for an argument.  If you go to a doctor or a lawyer or an accountant for a service, you expect to pay for their time, knowledge and expertise.  Life coaching or dream coaching or any other form of coaching is no different. Why would you think everything in this world should be free?  That smacks of entitlement.  Songbird has answered your questions.  If you don't like the answers... well... that's hardly her concern.

[quantumshaman]

PS - Do you think a math tutor would teach your kids for free? Why do you think it "should" be different if the service offered is connected to dreaming?  It's obviously a double standard, another program that some idjit put forth in the ancient days of yore, stating that all spiritual advice must be "free".  Convenient to believe that, but I'd betcha that if you wanted to attend theology school, you'd be asked to pay a handsome tuition or have it paid for you as a scholarship.  Either way... nothing of value is ever free.

[Mornings Son]

My shaman teachers charged a little money and lived of being shamans. They are humble and poor.

My nagual benefactor, guides and teacher charged me nothing, but to share the knowledge

My zen master charge nothing



Money is a difficult topic.

Donation might be the way I will choose when I set up a course in the shamanic warrior path, but only an option for those who fulfill a class.

[quantumshaman]

Mornings Son wrote:
Money is a difficult topic.

Hey, MS.
Money is a deeply-rooted program which people don't even realize until they come face to face with it.  If we are honest with ourselves, why is it "right" for a doctor or lawyer to charge, but "wrong" for a spiritual teacher?  There's no difference.
Did you know that the idea of "free" spiritual advice began with The Church back in the days of the Crusades?  People were told that only The Church held the truth, and the truth would always be free.  Of course, the REALITY of that is a bit different.  The Church is one of the biggest businesses on the planet.  See "The Vatican" if you have any doubt.  It was and still is in the best interest of organized religion to keep "the truth" (which is the biggest crock of lies ever to come down the sewer pipes) "free", because in that manner the church maintains control over its followers.  And let's face it - their "truth" is anything but free, particularly when you consider that The Church also forbids birth control, thereby insuring future generations of enslaved and ensorcelled zombie-eyed followers putting their "donations" in the collection plate, buying candles to appease saints, and - in the not-so-distant past - paying enormous sums of money to pray their dead relatives out of purgatory.
All of "the truth" was free.
Right.
Heh.  Anybody who believes that should email me.  I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I'll sell ya "for cheap."

[Guest]

Money is an important form of energetic exchange between two people.  If you like, you can use it to magically.

[quantumshaman]

songbird wrote:
Money is an important form of energetic exchange between two people.  If you like, you can use it to magically. 
Exactly.

[Guest]

I am grateful to all the nagual beings that I interact with, our currency exchange is the power we share between us. We know we assist each other on the path. I let the world be the world. It's different than what we do here. Here we do things many people would call impossible. We do it together.

[Guest]

i am surprised at the number of people who pay money for spiritual knowledge.



(Morning Sun, sounds like you found some good people. (



Quantum mega shaman,



I am sorry, but your views on money only justify your reason of charging for service as well. Spiritual knowledge...youve compared to math? school? To a lawyer? a doctor???



these are different walks of life, (although few can survive without the other. this is a separate topic.) Why is the Wakan path being capitalized on. these views are typical symptom of wanagi wayazo tawaci (global) as well as mental masturbation.



QS, i think you both overestimate the terms and idea, and as a consequence overestimate yourself. that's what i think, for these trivial pieces that you write in your post are at a young stage. either this, or you are not acquainted. part, in the context of thinking these stories are fairy tales (which as it turns your game skills in to no more than a means to maintain a certain social image).

[Guest]

Spiritual knowledge can not be bought.  You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it.

[Guest]

songbird wrote:Spiritual knowledge can not be bought.  You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it. 
I am sure you are an expert in leading the horses to water. Aye! And you cant squeeze blood out of a turnip. a stitch in time saves nine!

[Guest]

sikimiwa wroteongbird wrote:Spiritual knowledge can not be bought.  You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it. 
I am sure you are an expert in leading the horses to water. Aye! And you cant squeeze blood out of a turnip. a stitch in time saves nine!
I never said I was an expert.  Why don't you tell us what your real (ie: underlying) issue really is, Dear?  Then maybe we can stop **** footing around it and get on with things!

[Guest]

)Ok. You asked!
I would like to know:
why you charge people for this information.
You have not answered my question. You are "**** footing". I want details. It is a valid question, as well as my others to be answered. Those questions were important, and you over looked them because you think im a big meanie.
i have no issues, i guessing my trollish nature offends you.

[Guest]

If you would prefer to skype, that would be cool. or a chat maybe. this is taking some time i dont have.

[Mornings Son]

Quantum - I See a difference, but you don't... np

Religion and communing with Spirit is older than money, but then again I in to Old Age, not the New Age.

If the first free healing/counseling/etc worked for you and you come again it was expected to bring a gift/token to the shaman.

But then again Spirit might lay it out differently to the shaman.

In ancient japan it was considered bad style for a teacher to charge his student, it was unworthy.

Why is it so? Allegiance to the knowledge, once old teacher and Spirit... you would not fall so low that you would sell it as another fish monger.

But then again, these are different times. New Age courses are ego decoration for most IMHO - sincere people are rare

The 1% is still the real crocks, I don't care what you deal in QS and Songbird, im not buying. Do whatever you want I don't feel offended or anything.

Spirit takes no volunteers (no matter how much they pay)

[Guest]

Spirit takes no volunteers (no matter how much they pay)
!!!

[quantumshaman]

Mornings Son wrote:
Quantum - I See a difference, but you don't... np
Religion and communing with Spirit is older than money, but then again I in to Old Age, not the New Age.
If the first free healing/counseling/etc worked for you and you come again it was expected to bring a gift/token to the shaman.
But then again Spirit might lay it out differently to the shaman.
In ancient japan it was considered bad style for a teacher to charge his student, it was unworthy.
Why is it so? Allegiance to the knowledge, once old teacher and Spirit... you would not fall so low that you would sell it as another fish monger.
But then again, these are different times. New Age courses are ego decoration for most IMHO - sincere people are rare
The 1% is still the real crocks, I don't care what you deal in QS and Songbird, im not buying. Do whatever you want I don't feel offended or anything.
Spirit takes no volunteers (no matter how much they pay)
It's not about money, not really.  It's about time.  I've given away all my knowledge for free for many years now - that's simply the way of things, and I do wholly acknowledge what Spirit has called "a responsibility to the knowledge."  So I've given it away - freely.  On forums.  Workshops.  Seminars.  My website.  And in my books.  (Okay, you have to pay for the book, but the knowledge inside is free).  The point here has to do more with time than anything else.  I've had people come to me wanting to be "tutored" in the Toltec traditions, and the sad reality is that I simply don't have the time to do it unless it is compensating me.  Sure, a couple of pointers, a word of encouragement - I'm all for that!  But when someone wants one-on-one tutoring over a period of weeks, months, even years... do you even begin to realize the amount of TIME that requires?  Seriously?  You can't build a successful business on 20 minutes a day, and you can't absorb the truths about evolution in 20 minutes a day, either.  When I used to do free tutoring, it was taking upwards of 5+ hours per day, or more.  Alas, I couldn't continue it beyond a certain point, because I work for a living.  I have 2 or 3 "real" jobs that DO pay, and unfortunately Bank of America doesn't accept "spiritual advice" in exchange for the mortgage or car payment.  Imagine that.
It's unfortunate that you are reduced to equating "sincerity" with spirituality.  Even the most sincere person on the planet has to eat.  So... we live in a different world than the "ancients".  Somebody recently told me, "Truth is in the air, so it should be free!"  Tell it to Verizon and Sprint and T-Mobile.
It's obviously a touchy subject, but my point here was that the original poster who asked "why do you charge" just seemed to be intentionally trying to stir up a can of worms - and, of course, that is the result.  Why?  Because we all agreed to play the game.  I'm done.  It's an old, pointless argument, stirred to life out of boredom, no doubt.

[Guest]

I am beginning to understand why there are closed parts to this forum. This is a quiet horror.

[Gonzo]

@sikimiway -



Keep pushing. I've often thought a spiritual teacher truly showed his mettle by charging nothing for his efforts. Several examples come to mind...Nisargadatta, UG Krishnamurti, right off. The thing is, if you truly believe you a a lily of the field, and needing nothing (as don Juan himself stated eloquently), then you have no need to charge...whatever is needed for your continued existence will come to you.

[Guest]

Gonzo wrotesikimiway -



Keep pushing. I've often thought a spiritual teacher truly showed his mettle by charging nothing for his efforts. Several examples come to mind...Nisargadatta, UG Krishnamurti, right off. The thing is, if you truly believe you a a lily of the field, and needing nothing (as don Juan himself stated eloquently), then you have no need to charge...whatever is needed for your continued existence will come to you.FYI, I'm not teaching or selling spirituality.   Just a little bit of guidance for folks who want to boost their dreaming.  Surely, we do this free of charge for the most part, as you can see from the Forum, but if a person feels they need some extra tutoring, that's cool too.
BTW Gonzo, you were right!  100 percent.  I tried to avoid it, but seems it happened, anyway!

[Guest]

sikimiwa wroteOk. You asked!
I would like to know:
why you charge people for this information.
You have not answered my question. You are "**** footing". I want details. It is a valid question, as well as my others to be answered. Those questions were important, and you over looked them because you think im a big meanie.
i have no issues, i guessing my trollish nature offends you.

I'm not offended, though I am getting slightly frustrated by this conversation.  I have answered this question and others.  Might wanna go back and re-read.

[Guest]

There are two closed sub forums: a dream forum and a warrior party forum. The reason they are closed is because they are private forums and posts and events that transpire as a result of group interactions belong and apply soley to those forum participants, and the forums purposes. The main sub forums and topics offer different aspects of nagualism and related subjects than the private forums, but having closed forums is done for the reasons stated in this post. Main forum members can apply to enter these two sub forums. I will provide a link here shortly.