12-27-2008, 12:00 AM
I'm not listening because I'm your petty tyrant for the moment, another ridiculous Don Juannist concept.
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Dark energy
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12-28-2008, 12:00 AM
Blue totem wrote:I'm in full riot gear, so go ahead trow your rocks.
Don Juan had no education, and no trainning in any behavioral science... He could see, but any **** can be a seer. Don Juans views are very far from being universal. Tell you what, ask a Buddhist or Bramanist seers about self-importance, stalking, the place of no pity or the indulgence thing, or all the other Don Juannnist concepts. They will not have a clue about what you are talking about. For me it is very easy to see flaws in his philosophy and character, I wonder why its so difficult for you guys. So what is the development of mindfulness as explained for instance in the Satipatthana sutra if not stalking ? And what about the strive to get rid of one's egotism and selfishness one can find in Shantideva's Bodhicharyavatara if not losing self-importance ? And what about the contemplation of death (a very basic in the buddhadharma), one's own and of others, if not taking death as an advisor ?
12-28-2008, 12:00 AM
The Fool wrote:
Blue totem wrote: I'm in full riot gear, so go ahead trow your rocks. Don Juan had no education, and no trainning in any behavioral science... He could see, but any **** can be a seer. Don Juans views are very far from being universal. Tell you what, ask a Buddhist or Bramanist seers about self-importance, stalking, the place of no pity or the indulgence thing, or all the other Don Juannnist concepts. They will not have a clue about what you are talking about. For me it is very easy to see flaws in his philosophy and character, I wonder why its so difficult for you guys. So what is the development of mindfulness as explained for instance in the Satipatthana sutra if not stalking ? And what about the strive to get rid of one's egotism and selfishness one can find in Shantideva's Bodhicharyavatara if not losing self-importance ? And what about the contemplation of death (a very basic in the buddhadharma), one's own and of others, if not taking death as an advisor ? Nicely put.
12-28-2008, 12:00 AM
If you want, with a little creativity, you can say a duck is a giraffe.
Buddhism is about love, Don Juan's philosophy is about war. The vocabulary used in CC's book is ''negatively suggestive''. The symbols are all wrong... There is something called reading between the lines... Non-verbal language reveals just as much as the more evident stuff. You say ''development of mindfulness'' is stalking... Funny, because Amy Wallace, a direct student of Castaneda, translates it as ''lying''.
12-28-2008, 12:00 AM
Blue totem wrote:
If you want, with a little creativity, you can say a duck is a giraffe. Buddhism is about love, Don Juan's philosophy is about war. hmm, my knowledge about buddhism is limited, but when you read for example Gautama Buddha's Four noble truths it speaks about suffering and about the way leading to the cessation of suffering. No allusion to love anywhere in this text. My impression is that the original teaching was not primarily about love but "discipline".
12-28-2008, 12:00 AM
seeitall wrote:
Blue totem wrote: If you want, with a little creativity, you can say a duck is a giraffe. Buddhism is about love, Don Juan's philosophy is about war. hmm, my knowledge about buddhism is limited, but when you read for example Gautama Buddha's Four noble truths it speaks about suffering and about the way leading to the cessation of suffering. No allusion to love anywhere in this text. My impression is that the original teaching was not primarily about love but "discipline". Don Juan says: The Universe is predatory Siddharta says: The World is a hellish, blazing furnace (of pain and suffering) Don Juan speaks of a path with a heart... to find hate in that is twisted, to say the least. Amy Wallace describes stalking as "psychopathic behaviour". In the case of Castaneda she just might be right. Don Juan was different. He didn't even bothered with dull normals. Castaneda loved to play with them (and occasionally *** them). As for reading between the lines, there is something called paranoia also.
12-29-2008, 12:00 AM
Seeitall, go tell a Tibetan Buddhist that Buddhism is not about love and compassion. See his reaction.
Grandspeculator, you talk about a path with heart. But where was this path with heart when Don Juan set up Carlos to be killed by Dona Soledad? And how about the other times DJ set up Carlos...? Mother Theresa in India, thats a path with heart. A path with heart? When Don Juan is described by others as a grumpy antisocial... Sorry, I dont buy it. Maybe DJ works from the place of no pity (what bullshit). And how conveniant for him, he can be his sadistic self, and fell selfrightous at the same time. I see a manipulator beleiving his own lies. Don Juan made a projection on the universe of his own pessimistic shortcomings and made it a philosophy.
12-29-2008, 12:00 AM
Blue totem wrote:
Grandspeculator, you talk about a path with heart. But where was this path with heart when Don Juan set up Carlos to be killed by Dona Soledad? And how about the other times DJ set up Carlos...? Mother Theresa in India, thats a path with heart. Good fucking point!! Nice to hear something coherent for a change. I said the same thing many times. But I later realized that Don Juan didn't do this out of sadistic enjoyment. It was a brutal test for both Carlos and Soledad. In his ignorant world Don Juan said to Soledad that without taking Carlos's energy she would not be able to burn with the fire from within. Don Juan was a mexican seer, not a siberian/peruvian/nordic shaman, buddhist saint, nor a christian mystic or yogic adept. You can't judge him ignoring the context of his life and knowledge. That's not fair. He didn't know any better. Many of us do and yet we are not better than him. PS: If you are such a big fan of Mother Teresa, by all means go to Calcuta and help the poorest of the poor. It's very easy to be wise and nice behind a keyboard.
12-29-2008, 12:00 AM
I have mentionned before that Don Juan's sorcery was tainted by his
American-Indian slash warrior type background. I'm aware of where he comes from. Then if Don Juan didn't know any better, why bother giving him any real credit? Specially philosophical credit. Why follow this mans philosophy, if he evidently didn't have the right tools? You know, when you are in the presence of a moraly illuminated person, you feel at ease. But when Carlos was arround DJ, he felt treatened. I believe DJ's actions where more than just shortcomings.
12-29-2008, 12:00 AM
Blue totem wrote:
I have mentionned before that Don Juan's sorcery was tainted by his American-Indian slash warrior type background. I'm aware of where he comes from. Then if Don Juan didn't know any better, why bother giving him any real credit? Specially philosophical credit. Why follow this mans philosophy, if he evidently didn't have the right tools? You know, when you are in the presence of a moraly illuminated person, you feel at ease. But when Carlos was arround DJ, he felt treatened. I believe DJ's actions where more than just shortcomings. 1. Philosophy is literally loving wisdom, not bullshit talking. Wisdom is something practical. He did have valuable tools. He didn't have them all. Do you? 2. Morally enlightened person!? I don't know anybody that became enlightened out of his morality. Enlightened beings are naturally ethical around the lives and freedoms of others. That's not the same thing. Morality is mechanical. And how would you know how one feels around an enlightened being anyway? Have you meet an enlightened being in the flesh? Some of them are quite disturbing! Not because they are morbid, but because we are aberrated. Carlos felt all kinds of things around Don Juan, but he loved him and loved to be in his company. He even wrote in one of his books that he felt that Don Juan was "his only true friend in this world". People fear freedom, you know? You fear freedom. That's why you hide behind your ideas and beliefs. It's easier to say "Don Juan is bullshit" than walk his path and see it for yourself! That is quite alright! You don't like Don Juan? Good! Find someone that you like and follow his lead! The question is: Do you have what it takes to attract a real teacher into your life? Do you have a real teacher in your life? If you do... why are you here? Follow him! If you think that you can do-it-yourself you are sadly mistaken. You need help. You need to accept that you need help. If you are here just to piss down on Don Juan, to "rattle cages" or whatever, kindly *** off. You have nothing better to offer. By not giving a better approach you are just making an ass of yourself. And apparently I'm not the only one that thinks that way. Not that I care, but if everyone is saying that you are wrong they just might be on to something. As a final note... you said at some point that any imbecile can be a seer. Are you a seer? If you are to piss down on Don Juan at the very least you should be on higher ground!! For the time being you are, at most, pissing his shoes!
12-29-2008, 12:00 AM
Blue totem wrote:
Seeitall, go tell a Tibetan Buddhist that Buddhism is not about love and compassion. See his reaction. Is this the best you can do ? "Go ask someone", "somebody told", "I'm not the only one" . I gave you a text on which buddhism is supposed to be based, you have no argument, so you say "go ask tibetan buddhist". removing a bullet from a wound is a painful procedure, but nobody usually blames the doctor he is a sadistic bastard who enjoys it. does anybody know how to get rid of ego pain free, just swallowing a pill ? I'd like to buy it too. but since you love your ego , and you say love is all you need, you should at least start walk the walk and start to love and have compassion. Or is this "go *** yourself" attitude of yours an expression of your loving being ?
12-29-2008, 12:00 AM
Yes seeitall, thats the best I have. I wont debate about buddhism.
Spec, ''moraly illuminated'' means someone with a ''very strong moral sense'', a developed sense of justice... A quality found in Saints for exemple. Someone with a great sense of care for others, that has great sympathy. ---------------- So I guess we could go on and on... My position is clear... Yours also. Maybe this forum is not my place. If I have to, I'll defend my point of view. But I dont insist on arguing. Since everyone here are Don Juan followers, I guess I'm not at the right place. Maybe Parallel Perception Forum is more for me, I hear they are not that strong on Don Juan.
12-29-2008, 12:00 AM
Hey Blue
Have you read Sid's posts? Do you think he is a Don Juan follower? I can say for my self that i take what i find useful and let the '****' behind There is no reason for you to leave on the account of being the only one that is not a follower of Don Juan. We follow something else here.... something personal like being a warrior and seeking knowledge. Inspiring each other in different way...
12-29-2008, 12:00 AM
Blue totem wrote:
Yes seeitall, thats the best I have. I wont debate about buddhism. Spec, ''moraly illuminated'' means someone with a ''very strong moral sense'', a developed sense of justice... A quality found in Saints for exemple. Someone with a great sense of care for others, that has great sympathy. ---------------- So I guess we could go on and on... My position is clear... Yours also. Maybe this forum is not my place. If I have to, I'll defend my point of view. But I dont insist on arguing. Since everyone here are Don Juan followers, I guess I'm not at the right place. Maybe Parallel Perception Forum is more for me, I hear they are not that strong on Don Juan. Whatever feels right, but with your attitude I don't think you will do better over there. They might not be "Don Juanists", but they have some strong positions (not opinions) about nagualism. I know, and that's why I don't write over there. Shakyamuni Buddha said: "To live is to learn, to learn is to change." If you are not willing to change, you are not really willing to learn.
12-29-2008, 12:00 AM
Blue totem wrote:
Yes seeitall, thats the best I have. I wont debate about buddhism. Spec, ''moraly illuminated'' means someone with a ''very strong moral sense'', a developed sense of justice... A quality found in Saints for exemple. Someone with a great sense of care for others, that has great sympathy. ---------------- So I guess we could go on and on... My position is clear... Yours also. Maybe this forum is not my place. If I have to, I'll defend my point of view. But I dont insist on arguing. Since everyone here are Don Juan followers, I guess I'm not at the right place. Maybe Parallel Perception Forum is more for me, I hear they are not that strong on Don Juan. What about sustained reaction ? If you look for someone that will agree with you that Carlos and Juan were fraud, it's the right place to be. Actually there are not many people that take these books seriously. So what is your mission ? to convert those few remaining to buddhism ?
12-29-2008, 12:00 AM
seeitall wrote:
Blue totem wrote: Yes seeitall, thats the best I have. I wont debate about buddhism. Spec, ''moraly illuminated'' means someone with a ''very strong moral sense'', a developed sense of justice... A quality found in Saints for exemple. Someone with a great sense of care for others, that has great sympathy. ---------------- So I guess we could go on and on... My position is clear... Yours also. Maybe this forum is not my place. If I have to, I'll defend my point of view. But I dont insist on arguing. Since everyone here are Don Juan followers, I guess I'm not at the right place. Maybe Parallel Perception Forum is more for me, I hear they are not that strong on Don Juan. What about sustained reaction ? If you look for someone that will agree with you that Carlos and Juan were fraud, it's the right place to be. Actually there are not many people that take these books seriously. So what is your mission ? to convert those few remaining to buddhism ? Seeitall... I think he left to try his luck in PP. This whole issue begun with him trying to defend his "views". To defend them, he tried to push them... on me! It really is wholly unimportant, but I pushed the envelope to see how far he would take his defense. He toke it quite far!! Now he posted in PP to see if he is accepted there. As far as I can see he could benefit if he actually visits Jaggie in the flesh... but I don't know if he would do that. In the end his evolutionary trip is his problem.
12-29-2008, 12:00 AM
Shamanic Warrior is not solely about following the Toltec Way handed down to us from Don Juan and his group of Sorcerers.
It is about using all we know and taking it beyond what we have learned from the past. Blue Totem, judging Castaneda is not the way to understand what came out from his books. He was a relayer of the teachings not the teacher. Parallel perception is about Lujan's teachings that are based on Don Juan's teachings in case your not aware of that forum's identity. Grand Speculator causes ripples in the pond of knowledge. Does knock off a few frogs in the water off their comfortable lily pads.
12-29-2008, 12:00 AM
Nagual LoneWolf wrote:
Shamanic Warrior is not solely about following the Toltec Way handed down to us from Don Juan and his group of Sorcerers. It is about using all we know and taking it beyond what we have learned from the past. Blue Totem, judging Castaneda is not the way to understand what came out from his books. He was a relayer of the teachings not the teacher. Parallel perception is about Lujan's teachings that are based on Don Juan's teachings in case your not aware of that forum's identity. Grand Speculator causes ripples in the pond of knowledge. Does knock off a few frogs in the water off their comfortable lily pads. I'm such an ****! What a nice, poetic, way of putting it!
12-29-2008, 12:00 AM
grandspeculator wrote:
seeitall wrote: Blue totem wrote: Yes seeitall, thats the best I have. I wont debate about buddhism. Spec, ''moraly illuminated'' means someone with a ''very strong moral sense'', a developed sense of justice... A quality found in Saints for exemple. Someone with a great sense of care for others, that has great sympathy. ---------------- So I guess we could go on and on... My position is clear... Yours also. Maybe this forum is not my place. If I have to, I'll defend my point of view. But I dont insist on arguing. Since everyone here are Don Juan followers, I guess I'm not at the right place. Maybe Parallel Perception Forum is more for me, I hear they are not that strong on Don Juan. What about sustained reaction ? If you look for someone that will agree with you that Carlos and Juan were fraud, it's the right place to be. Actually there are not many people that take these books seriously. So what is your mission ? to convert those few remaining to buddhism ? Seeitall... I think he left to try his luck in PP. good for him. but I think I may understand his dilemma now. He likes all the "magic and wonder" in the books but does not want to pay the price, so he is looking for a way around by proving Juan was wrong.
12-29-2008, 12:00 AM
seeitall wrote:
grandspeculator wrote: seeitall wrote: What about sustained reaction ? If you look for someone that will agree with you that Carlos and Juan were fraud, it's the right place to be. Actually there are not many people that take these books seriously. So what is your mission ? to convert those few remaining to buddhism ? Seeitall... I think he left to try his luck in PP. good for him. but I think I may understand his dilemma now. He likes all the "magic and wonder" in the books but does not want to pay the price, so he is looking for a way around by proving Juan was wrong. Exactly. A man/woman of knowledge is the one that pays the price.
12-30-2008, 12:00 AM
Well people, I'm not out the door just yet.
Like I told you before, I dont disregard seeing, the inorganic world, dreaming or energy. I'm not against everything. I've seen many times, why would I disregard it? I'm a mystic myself. But put yourself in my position, my background is zen, and zen is silent on about everything mystical. So what do I do? I find a site like this one who is ready to talk about secret knowledge... Sustained reaction is not my place. I love Castanedas books. But its not because I like a good murder mystery book, that I like murder in real life.
12-30-2008, 12:00 AM
A man/woman of knowledge is the one that pays the price.
Walks the walk.
12-30-2008, 12:00 AM
The vast majority of seers, are not nagualists.
All it takes to be a seer, is to raise your energy levels. The majority will do it without ever quoting DJ's words. |
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