Tay Tay's Clever

[Le_Regard]

While I'm still thinking about this... if anyone is an aspiring writer, I think a feminist Divine Comedy written as a dialogue in Heaven between Beatrice and Dante's actual wife would also sell millions of copies.

[Le_Regard]

One thing I do know is that *I* am not a saint.  But if I could -- if I had the power to do it -- I would personally peel back the sky and show heaven to anyone who wants to see it.

[Le_Regard]

Le_Regard wrote:
One thing I do know is that *I* am not saint.  But if I could -- if I had the power to do it -- I would personally peel back the sky and show heaven to anyone who wants to see it.

Ok, honestly, I might charge a reasonable fee for my sky peeling services. Maybe on a sliding scale. I don't know. I like to think that no one would be turned away, but the dark reality is even poets and philosopher-priests still have to keep the rent paid and the lights on somehow.

[Atlantean]

Again without reading it it sounds like Beatrice is his twin flame. I met mine and its a very wierd thing. I would say I am pretty new to this dreaming and astral stuff but strange things happen when it comes to the twin. I was sleeping in my car once (yes after I got fired) haha and my twin and I met (in the astral I presume?) And we were just two balls if light and started spinning around each other and forming like a tornado. I really have no idea how I ended up there since we don't talk At all or what the purpose of this"tornado" was. Someone told me it was a merkaba but really I have no idea because just as the momentum started to get going I was jerked asleep. I woke up completely freaked out because my car was shaking violently and my adrenaline was going from waking up like that.

In the morning there was a perfect circle in the dirt right behind my car...where the bumper is.

TF stuff is weird! I would say Beatrice probably visited Dante after her death because they were that.  It's a hard type of relationship to sustain in the earth life because we are so flawed and weighed down here.

I know who my twin is...I know we have known each other for thousands of years...but my tonal self tells me he is an a whole and will have to go on living without me some more, for the next few hundred years or more.

It would make sense that Bea shows him around heaven as reunion usually doesnt usually happen until both souls are perfected.

If the story speaks to you somehow maybe you could try reaching out to yours? There is a guy that has a hebsite on hiw to develop telepathy called spiritualacademy.org.

On there it explains to try to contact your twin soul as the way person to try telepathy with. Not a good idea to look at in a roma fix way though. Could be the same gender or in spirit or could be a totally not cool person.

...like mine -_-

[Le_Regard]

Atlantean wrote:
Again without reading it it sounds like Beatrice is his twin flame. I met mine and its a very wierd thing. I would say I am pretty new to this dreaming and astral stuff but strange things happen when it comes to the twin. I was sleeping in my car once (yes after I got fired) haha and my twin and I met (in the astral I presume?) And we were just two balls if light and started spinning around each other and forming like a tornado. I really have no idea how I ended up there since we don't talk At all or what the purpose of this"tornado" was. Someone told me it was a merkaba but really I have no idea because just as the momentum started to get going I was jerked asleep. I woke up completely freaked out because my car was shaking violently and my adrenaline was going from waking up like that.

In the morning there was a perfect circle in the dirt right behind my car...where the bumper is.

TF stuff is weird! I would say Beatrice probably visited Dante after her death because they were that.  It's a hard type of relationship to sustain in the earth life because we are so flawed and weighed down here.

I know who my twin is...I know we have known each other for thousands of years...but my tonal self tells me he is an a whole and will have to go on living without me some more, for the next few hundred years or more.

It would make sense that Bea shows him around heaven as reunion usually doesnt usually happen until both souls are perfected.

If the story speaks to you somehow maybe you could try reaching out to yours? There is a guy that has a hebsite on hiw to develop telepathy called spiritualacademy.org.

On there it explains to try to contact your twin soul as the way person to try telepathy with. Not a good idea to look at in a roma fix way though. Could be the same gender or in spirit or could be a totally not cool person.

...like mine -_-

Ok, so just jumping right into this, the first thing I see is that the Twin Flame idea seems to be a justification for monogamy as an absolute moral standard, and wow does that get me all fired up and ready to complain about the patriarchy.

What is a "roma fix"?  Is that short for "romantic"?  What an interesting idea...  a ROMANTIC fix.  That's brilliant... does it work?  It's like we could satisfy every emotional need, all at once, as an on-demand service.  Wouldn't that be something?

The Twin story has been coming up a lot, lately.  Ordinarily though it's more an abstract Yin/Yang thing and not a specific special bond between two particular souls.  Are you sure it's a specific person?  Are they incarnate on the Earth right now?

[Atlantean]

"Twin Flame idea seems to be a justification for monogamy as an absolute moral standard"
I have no idea, Im not trying to justify anything. I don't believe monogamy is the absolute moral standard either. Actually I know that the reason polygamy is outlawed in thr US is more for government control measures that religious reasons.  That's a whole other topic. The tf couples I know are manogonous because its a natural thing that happens in those circumstances not because of some moral code.

"Roma-fix" I believe is a typo.

"Ordinarily a yin yang concept"
I'm glad this is how most people view it. Its healthier than thinking that happiness lies within another person. Actually I WISH some people I know saw it this way instead of constantly seeking happiness outside of self.

I was only answering because you seemed to be questioning the odd behavior of Dante regarding this woman. Just without reading it that's what it sounds like to me.

I dont know why you brought Dante in the first place. Just my two cents.

[glance left]

"I love that Dante offers an alternative perspective to religion.  The Bible has been written and interpreted in so many styles that it's confusing and complicated"

There it is, in a nutshell.  Its a personal perspective, but that sums it up for me.  Take a the simplicity of a clear and open way out/through, easily instantly accessible to anyone who can look inward and sustain that focus once alignment is arrived upon....and then obscure it in layers upon layers of a obfuscating complicated mess that impossible to sort out as long as the focus is on the strings/threads. 

It's the irony of the etching.....the tunnel of light or stairway to heaven or whatever one wants to call it.  A clear path....swirling along the periphery with angels which are intriguing, of course....but also, perhaps, diverting as well because the attention naturally gets pulled to the sides.

Priests and priestesses.  Gods and goddesses.  Angels and demons.  Layers upon layers of stratified "heaven" and "hell".  A crown of thorns around the empty core.  All of this the ultimate challenge to navigate....playing out at the level of the mind.

Man oh man....what a pickle! 

[Le_Regard]

Atlantean wrote:
I dont know why you brought Dante in the first place. Just my two cents.

I brought up Dante because Pixie Dust was raving about the devil and mentioned that hell seemed strangely cold.

I said that's not strange at all, Dante knew that 700 years ago.

I think what's still at stake here is if that's NOT in the Bible (and it isn't), where did Dante get such a wild idea?  Who comes up with an idea that literally being tortured by demons in a lake of fire is still relatively speaking BETTER than just being left alone in the cold for eternity?

If you're wondering what that has to do with Taylor Swift that's kind of a hard question at this point, but in a manner of speaking she just dropped a new album like, "*** you, entertainment industry, I am not your Beatrice.  I'm a real person and my relationships are not your reality TV."

[Le_Regard]

"I'll be the actress starring in your bad dreams"

[Le_Regard]

Also, if I may,

"While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”

Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you..."  Matthew 26:26-27

[Le_Regard]

"Gravity hurts
You made it so sweet
'Til I woke up on—
On the concrete

Falling from cloud nine
Crashing from the high
I'm letting go tonight"

There is very much a Fallen Angel theme in pop music these days, wouldn't you say?  Everywhere I look I see Beatrice the way she'd look if she'd finally had enough and crashed down to Earth just to tell Dante and his legacy to go *** themselves.

[Atlantean]

Le_Regard wrote:
Atlantean wrote:
I dont know why you brought Dante in the first place. Just my two cents.

I brought up Dante because Pixie Dust was raving about the devil and mentioned that hell seemed strangely cold.

I said that's not strange at all, Dante knew that 700 years ago.

I think what's still at stake here is if that's NOT in the Bible (and it isn't), where did Dante get such a wild idea?  Who comes up with an idea that literally being tortured by demons in a lake of fire is still relatively speaking BETTER than just being left alone in the cold for eternity?

If you're wondering what that has to do with Taylor Swift that's kind of a hard question at this point, but in a manner of speaking she just dropped a new album like, "*** you, entertainment industry, I am not your Beatrice.  I'm a real person and my relationships are not your reality TV."

Well since he wrote so much about it I assume its probably because he actually went there. I know someone that wrote a story similar to his when they were young...like really young too young to have read his work or know anything about it. This person had never read anything about it...it was simply a creative writing assignment. Kinda strange that someone who had never read it could come up with similar ideas.

Also I believe the Vikings believed he'll to he a cold place.

[Le_Regard]

That happens. Little children dream all kinds of archetypal stories, knights in white armor saving princesses from dragons, that kind of thing. Carl Jung studied it.

The conventional story is that in Dante the bottom of hell is cold because it's as far away from God as possible. The idea is supposed to be that sin is separation from God, and separation from God is the worst kind of suffering. But the Beatrice-is-Heaven angle turns it all upside down. He's making tragic adolescent Romeo and Juliet style romance, and I'm talking angsty teenage break up songs AND cheap paperback romance novels here, into something IMPORTANT. Like some random girl he thought was pretty once was the mystic key to everything, above all the Heavens and below all the Hells.

[serloco]

God is everywhere, even Hell.

[Le_Regard]

As much as I love The Divine Comedy, a discussion of courtly love would definitely be incomplete without introducing Don Quixote.

Courtly love literature and in particular something called "knight errantry tales" were already extremely popular at the time so Cervante's Don Quixote is actually something of a parody.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight-errant

Don Quixote, the character, is portrayed as just an ordinary guy who has read too many knight errantry tales and started to actually believe in them.  He really thinks he's going to go out and do brave deeds and slay dragons and fight evil wizards and save kingdoms and win the hand of his fair maiden.

But this is 16th century Spain and there just aren't a lot of dragons and evil wizards around, and EVERYONE EXCEPT Don Quixote knows that this is all just something you read about in books.  But Don Quixote believes in it, and he believes the values of knight errantry - bravery, chivalry, courtly love - these are real, meaningful values to really be acted on in the real world.

And he really did have a "fair maiden", and her name was Dulcinea.  She wasn't in Heaven, but she was Heavenly to him, etc., etc., etc., and he wrote the most glowing poetry of her and swore his loyalty to her and dedicated all his bravery to her virtue, or something like that.  But in Cervantes' version she was also quite literally a peasant girl down the street from where Don Quixote lived, and she didn't spend her days receiving courtly suitors so much as winnowing buckwheat and making bread and so on, but somehow she inspired Don Quixote anyway.

The most famous scene in Don Quixote is Don Quixote in his sad armor on a sad horse, charging at windmills believing they are giants.  It doesn't go so well for him.  This is how Gustave Doré drew it (weird how he illustrated both, isn't it?):

[Pixie Dust]

[Guest]