Modern Nagualism-What Happens After Death?

[rosygyro]

DoktorGreen wrote:
SO then, rosy... from your comments, I assume that you believe that time is a consistent measure in all worlds? And that it is a measure that can be relied on when passing between worlds? And indeed, that time exists in all worlds?
DG

[DoktorGreen]

Good reply. I'll bank on that one.



Dok

[Peacefulwarrior]

nemo wroteJ Fire From Within:He said that the old seers, being the masters of awareness, applied their expertise to their own glows of awareness and made them expand to inconceivable limits. They actually aimed at lighting up all the emanations inside their cocoons, one band at a time. They succeeded, but oddly enough the accomplishment of lighting up one band at a time was instrumental in their becoming imprisoned in the quagmire of the second attention.***

„The new seers corrected that error,” he continued, „and let the mastery of awareness develop to its natural end, which is to extend the glow of awareness beyond the bounds of the luminous cocoon in one single stroke.

„The third attention is attained when the glow of awareness turns into the fire from within: a glow that kindles not one band at a time but all the Eagle’s emanations inside man’s cocoon.”

Don Juan expressed his awe for the new seers’ deliberate effort to attain the third attention while they are alive and conscious of their individuality.

He added that at the moment of dying all human beings enter into the unknowable and some of them do attain the third attention, but altogether too briefly and only to purify the food for the Eagle.
„The supreme accomplishment of human beings,” he said, „is to attain that level of attention while retaining the lifeforce, without becoming a disembodied awareness moving like a flicker of light up to the Eagle’s beak to be devoured.”




(nemo) Anybody reading my words now, is an assemblage point.
A thrust of energy, an accumulation of moments through a furrow of time. Normal
death is the end of the sense of the individual self.

Picture your life experience as a holographic movie that
your soul is experiencing, and when you die a normal death your soul is akin to
a person leaving the movie theater, it picks up the experience looks for the
next life (Holographic movie) experience because checking experiences out is
the universes gig. The eagle likes to experience itself through you and you are
the eagle.

The universe every so often creates, and it may be an
anomaly lol a furrow of time that accumulates or saves enough energy and or knowledge to withstand the pressure of, (I suppose you could
say pure light). This is best done before your body starts to fail, and is
called in Toltec terms the third attention.

So you have a few options.***
quagmire of the second attention.***
This is the problem in putting a lot of stock in dreaming!
Thanks so much for this wonderful and truthful comment dear nemo

[Uncle Sam]

Btw those Eagle, "Indescribable Force" etc. are artificial artifacts, its Absolute, or Infinity as CC has coined it.



Good point to check on Dharma (buddhism) on transference/rebirth, because energy body (double) is not the entity for rebirth.



There is no permament soul, only stream of awareness/energy ongoing transformations on Infinity.



CC stuff is too much "special". Only a second attention warrior uses energy body for transference, otherwise ordinary people take rebirth (in 49 days after death of physical body, bardo) and theirs energy body (double, doppelganger, ghost) fades into Infinity in aprox. 50-100 years.



Its dual issue, and on this special example it is illustrated.



Every day of life is special, at least opportunity to contemplate Absolute and clear ones awareness/consciousness (recapitulation is good) and especially letting go, not clinging, try buddhist meditation - e.g. vipassana, samatha or zazen.



Seek the Light. The Basis of Universe (of Consciousness) is Clear Light of this Absolute. It is not some "Eagle" (Eagle is only neutral force field), but Absolute, Dharmakaya or God. The Clear Light (Dharmakaya, God) manifests to every being in the first hour past death of physical body.

[Uncle Sam]

BTW those are not theories or beliefs (e.g. on bardo), but a sure thing, after death of physical body, big time ride.



The greatest kick of all, for the last, as CC used to say it.



Be prepared for it.

[Peacefulwarrior]

got it right. Most of the comments are nonsense. When a person dies his body dies and then does his mind. His spirit though doesn't die. I don't know about reincarnation, but I think that those who were evil reincarnate as animals or as poor people. Those who were not evil have a choice whether to reincarnate or to merge with The Creator and be eternal Bliss.

[quantumshaman]

Peacefulwarrior wrote:

got it right. Most of the comments are nonsense. When a person dies his body dies and then does his mind. His spirit though doesn't die. I don't know about reincarnation, but I think that those who were evil reincarnate as animals or as poor people. Those who were not evil have a choice whether to reincarnate or to merge with The Creator and be eternal Bliss.
Who says so, and why would you believe them?  Why do you believe a person's body dies and then his mind?  Why do you believe the spirit doesn't die?  Why would you think those who are evil reincarnate as animals or poor people (that one brought a chuckle)?  And - most of all - why do you believe in a "creator" or the idea of bliss, or evil?
Everything you are saying here is assumption upon assumption, resulting in a false belief system that will bury you if you let it.
Don't shoot the messenger.  Just pointin' it out.
QS

[spiderlily]

Peacefulwarrior wrote:got it right. Most of the comments are nonsense. When a person dies his body dies and then does his mind. His spirit though doesn't die. I don't know about reincarnation, but I think that those who were evil reincarnate as animals or as poor people. Those who were not evil have a choice whether to reincarnate or to merge with The Creator and be eternal Bliss.
What about if the mind goes first, before the body?  Then what of this theory?  Also who judges evil or not evil? 

Like QS says it's all assumption.  But really, that's all we can do is assume and conjecture, unless we've already been there, come back and remember!

[Uncle Sam]

CC is just modern, anthropological-phenomenological account on a very high profile type of sorcery, otherwise it is just plain sorcery.

To disregard Christian, Buddhist and Hindu sources is plain wrong.

[quantumshaman]

Uncle Sam wrote:

CC is just modern, anthropological-phenomenological account on a very high profile type of sorcery, otherwise it is just plain sorcery.
To disregard Christian, Buddhist and Hindu sources is plain wrong.In order to succeed, the seeker must disregard ALL of it.  That is the point of the Toltec teachings:  to lose ALL belief systems, including its own.  If you are clinging to xtian, buddhist, et al... you are just following what someone else did, walking in someone else's footsteps. 
Who are YOU?  What is YOUR experience?  What have YOU done to create your existence beyond this fragile mortal continuum?  If you can't answer those questions... go back to square one or huddle in the corner with your belief systems.  It's up to you.  Only you.  There is no other god, no other creator.  Just you.

[Uncle Sam]

QS thats 100 % buddhist opinion what You have written, fyi. And fyi, when we discuss a frame - cc, buddhism, christianity and hindu texts, we look into cognitive aspects of it. e.g. gods and Gods exists too, not only humans. and yes, humans are 100 % responsible

[Uncle Sam]

Life is impermanent. the trees for your coffins are already cut down

[delawaredan]

"In order to succeed, the seeker must disregard ALL of it. That is the point of the Toltec teachings: to lose ALL belief systems, including its own. If you are clinging to xtian, buddhist, et al... you are just following what someone else did, walking in someone else's footsteps. "
Love this QS.  
And yes Sam, it is 100% Buddhist as well....further clarifying the simplicity of the concept and also uniting spiritual traditions.

[Uncle Sam]

What is "Cosmic Nagualism" ? Sorcery (second and third ring of power) and Yoga are technical disciplines.

[Uncle Sam]

There are maps, even very detailed maps. but "Map is not territory"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Korzybski

[Uncle Sam]

it has proufound meaning, and also warning in qualitative sense, that "The map is not the territory".

There is also warning against quantification, in the qualitative sense too.

So the quality is the answer.

[Peacefulwarrior]

quantumshaman wrote:
Peacefulwarrior wrote:

got it right. Most of the comments are nonsense. When a person dies his body dies and then does his mind. His spirit though doesn't die. I don't know about reincarnation, but I think that those who were evil reincarnate as animals or as poor people. Those who were not evil have a choice whether to reincarnate or to merge with The Creator and be eternal Bliss.
Who says so, and why would you believe them?  Why do you believe a person's body dies and then his mind?  Why do you believe the spirit doesn't die?  Why would you think those who are evil reincarnate as animals or poor people (that one brought a chuckle)?  And - most of all - why do you believe in a "creator" or the idea of bliss, or evil?

Everything you are saying here is assumption upon assumption, resulting in a false belief system that will bury you if you let it.

Don't shoot the messenger.  Just pointin' it out.

QS
I say so and you obviously don't know what you are talking about. I learned from Mooji that the body dies and then the mind. And it is obvious that the Spirit doesn't otherwise there would be no infinity. What do you believe happens when we die? Also Im 100% sure that some of Carlos Castaneda's work is pure fiction otherwise I should have already reached "total freedom". What do you believe will happen when you die?

[Peacefulwarrior]

Uncle Sam wrote:QS thats 100 % buddhist opinion what You have written, fyi. And fyi, when we discuss a frame - cc, buddhism, christianity and hindu texts, we look into cognitive aspects of it. e.g. gods and Gods exists too, not only humans. and yes, humans are 100 % responsible
There is birth and there is death life is eternal.

[Uncle Sam]

Also Im 100% sure that some of Carlos Castaneda's work is pure fiction otherwise I should have already reached "total freedom" =))

i would stick to dreaming for a while.

e.g. enough zewling at 2nd gate, find some jinn and have some sci-fi fun with it, or dj first if you can survive it )), or call some angels you can skip this part and assemble lower heavens instead.

Goose will think about accepting you as an apprentice =)

p.s. if someone wants to become apprentice, start to do daily zazen with the intention of total awareness, like a tiger or dragon.



(edit: merged posts)

[Uncle Sam]

[Uncle Sam]

ofc it is lethal past the 2nd gate. both djinn and sorcerers, or anything.

what is problem with dreaming past 2nd gate: imbue-ment of energy body of all sorts (inorganic, and death defiers). real new seers recommend the third ring of power course, 3rd attention course, not the 2nd attention sorcery.

(edit: merged posts)

[Uncle Sam]

what is problem with dreaming past 2nd gate: imbue-ment of energy body of all sorts (inorganic, and death defiers). real new seers recommend the third ring of power course, 3rd attention course, not the 2nd attention sorcery.

[delawaredan]

Peacefulwarrior wrote:
quantumshaman wrote:
Peacefulwarrior wrote:
got it right. Most of the comments are nonsense. When a person dies his body dies and then does his mind. His spirit though doesn't die. I don't know about reincarnation, but I think that those who were evil reincarnate as animals or as poor people. Those who were not evil have a choice whether to reincarnate or to merge with The Creator and be eternal Bliss.
Who says so, and why would you believe them?  Why do you believe a person's body dies and then his mind?  Why do you believe the spirit doesn't die?  Why would you think those who are evil reincarnate as animals or poor people (that one brought a chuckle)?  And - most of all - why do you believe in a "creator" or the idea of bliss, or evil?
Everything you are saying here is assumption upon assumption, resulting in a false belief system that will bury you if you let it.
Don't shoot the messenger.  Just pointin' it out.
QSI say so and you obviously don't know what you are talking about. I learned from Mooji that the body dies and then the mind. And it is obvious that the Spirit doesn't otherwise there would be no infinity. What do you believe happens when we die? Also Im 100% sure that some of Carlos Castaneda's work is pure fiction otherwise I should have already reached "total freedom". What do you believe will happen when you die?

PW - you have not reached total freedom becasue you wallow in self pity and threaten to kill yourself.

[quantumshaman]

delawaredan wrote:

I say so and you obviously don't know what you are talking about. I learned from Mooji that the body dies and then the mind. And it is obvious that the Spirit doesn't otherwise there would be no infinity. What do you believe happens when we die? Also Im 100% sure that some of Carlos Castaneda's work is pure fiction otherwise I should have already reached "total freedom". What do you believe will happen when you die?
  What I "believe" is entirely irrelevant.  What you believe is entirely irrelevant.
I don't know who Mooji is, but if you want to believe him/her/it, go ahead. It won't change the fact that it's all pointless speculation and conjecture, 'cuz Mooji doesn't have the patent on knowing what happens after we die.
What I KNOW about what happens when you die is that your awareness can be transferred to your double, so that you inhabit the totality of yourself.  I don't "believe" it or hope it is true.  I have experienced it outside of time (which I don't expect you to understand), and at the very least I don't have to base my beliefs on what someone else told me.  Heh. 
And for what it's worth, spirit and infinity aren't necessarily the same thing, so I'm not sure where you are coming up with your notion that spirit doesn't die or there could be no infinity?  Eh? 
The one thing we agree on is that at least some portion of CC's work is fiction.  Then again... life itself is largely fiction.

[quantumshaman]

Just a technical glitch, but I wanted to point out that my response wasn't intended for delewaredan, but for some reason the embedded quotes seem to have confuzzled one another.    Can't edit, so...