Modern Nagualism-What Happens After Death?

[quantumshaman]

Just for the record, in case anyone is casting bets... heh... I'm still willing to bet all 3 are the same, or at the very least members of the same "group."  Personally - my money is on ALL 3 being the same person.  I think the personalities can "present" differently, 'cuz that's the nature of MPD.
None of it matters in the least - EXCEPT that it wastes the time of serious-minded warriors who may get drawn into the games.  And, yes, the same may be said of passive-aggressive games.  I simply have no tolerance for that anymore (as if I ever did...)

[spiderlily]

quantumshaman wrote:
 
To the second point... you  let's not pretend your comments here are coming from an innocent perspective.  They are rooted in the personal history between us, which is okay by me, but I'm no longer going to allow you to play your passive-aggressive games with me on an open forum.  Self importance knows how to feed itself?  You should know most of all, or you would not have felt the need to make this post in the first place.
 
I'm not arguing with you here, nor am I defending myself for replying.  I have just as much right to do so as anyone else on this forum.  My points still stand.  The energy created in such exchanges can get addicting.
We've all felt it.

[Uncle Sam]

QS has scout disorder, seeing scout everywhere. PW is the first victim of it. It is funny, boring and idiotic. With such a mindfuck, i am close to seeing too.

[quantumshaman]

Uncle Sam wrote:

QS has scout disorder, seeing scout everywhere. PW is the first victim of it. It is funny, boring and idiotic. With such a mindfuck, i am close to seeing too.
I stand by what I've said.  If you AREN'T Scout1, then why are you acting like him, repeating everything he has said?  You are clearly a sock puppet.  Sorry - but THAT is the mindfuck... It may work on others, but not on me.

[quantumshaman]

spiderlily wrote:
quantumshaman wrote:
 
To the second point... you  let's not pretend your comments here are coming from an innocent perspective.  They are rooted in the personal history between us, which is okay by me, but I'm no longer going to allow you to play your passive-aggressive games with me on an open forum.  Self importance knows how to feed itself?  You should know most of all, or you would not have felt the need to make this post in the first place. I'm not arguing with you here, nor am I defending myself for replying.  I have just as much right to do so as anyone else on this forum.  My points still stand.  The energy created in such exchanges can get addicting.We've felt it. 

That kind of energy is certainly NOT addictive to me.  If it is addictive to you... you have a serious problem (but I already know that).
Why do you insist in playing these little games, Lori?  Does it get you off, or are you simply that insecure?

[Uncle Sam]

PW: There are many new age gurus and "spiritual" teachers. However, CC is completely in different league. This is why QS is calling you moron fyi.

It is not new age, and it is not spiritual, but rather life time dedicated to hard discipline, it is navigating into unknown, and for this shaman needs: iron discipline of warrior, unlimited pragmatism and guts of steel, i.e. not in your shitty life.

It is sorcery, shamanism, cosmic nagualism. Osho, Mooji, Tolle etc. are not teaching about this discipline, not teaching about warrior.

If you want to get serious in this "spiritual" affair, you need to turn on Yoga or this Warrior paradigm, all inclusive, as to the practice. It is life discipline, disciplined life including all aspects. Intelligence, will, intent, integrity, coherence, completeness, knowledge, wisdom.

[Uncle Sam]

quantumshaman wrotepiderlily wrote:
quantumshaman wrote:

To the second point... you  let's not pretend your comments here are coming from an innocent perspective.  They are rooted in the personal history between us, which is okay by me, but I'm no longer going to allow you to play your passive-aggressive games with me on an open forum.  Self importance knows how to feed itself?  You should know most of all, or you would not have felt the need to make this post in the first place. I'm not arguing with you here, nor am I defending myself for replying.  I have just as much right to do so as anyone else on this forum.  My points still stand.  The energy created in such exchanges can get addicting.We've felt it. 

That kind of energy is certainly NOT addictive to me.  If it is addictive to you... you have a serious problem (but I already know that).
Why do you insist in playing these little games, Lori?  Does it get you off, or are you simply that insecure?QS you are control freak, and thats boring.

[Uncle Sam]

quantumshaman wrote:Uncle Sam wrote:

QS has scout disorder, seeing scout everywhere. PW is the first victim of it. It is funny, boring and idiotic. With such a mindfuck, i am close to seeing too.
I stand by what I've said.  If you AREN'T Scout1, then why are you acting like him, repeating everything he has said?  You are clearly a sock puppet.  Sorry - but THAT is the mindfuck... It may work on others, but not on me.
But why are you obsessed with it ? I cant see any point in that, but for you, it is a game.  However, it is completely irrelevant and i suggest to focus on topic and context instead, not ad hominem.===
So I will go by direct example, and this is the so called  Problem of second attention warriors.
Don Juan was pointing the way towards third attention achievement, completion of energy, to bring body and energy body together, to reach totality of oneself and third attention, if warrior is able to reach the completion of energy - needless to say as a result of colossal, gigantic discipline - whats is mainly involving the practice called Recapitulation.
To reach double and occupy it as QS pointed, is the step I, called bilocation, result of this discipline. But this bilocation is to be continually at two places at once, what includes capacity of the energy body (double) to be present in this world (as the Nagual). Don Genaro and Don Juan in the Tales of Power book are the exampleś for it.
The second step II, is to to join the two luminous spheres, with the two APs, together, to become one bright evolved luminous inorganic being, a departed third attention warrior. It is called Eagles gift, toltec total freedom. So there in this step is the difference inbetween the second attention warriors and the third attention warriors.
The second attention warriors cannot reach the third attention, the completion of energy, joining body (tonal) and energy body (nagual) together to become one.
The problem for this is not following the third attention course of discipline, focusing on the second attention instead - this is doing dreaming without Recapitulation, or not doing Recapitulation at all. Then there are the factors of health (physical and energetic), time and biological death.
Without complete Recapitulation, one is loosing lifeforce (the tonal luminous sphere) to Eagle and is left with the energy body (double) only. This is the departed second attention warrior then. Also this can be varied for a second attention warrior, to be done technically - a leap to Infinity or Flight to the second attention, instead of third attention evolutionary achievement  in more, death defying ways. One of this examples is the Tenant (Xoxopan), who is defying death by shifting AP, i.e. he has not encountered Eagle (field) in the death yet, he has not died energetically, nor biologically, what is an interesting maneuver. The other one is to dissolve the physical matter of physical body.
Nothing against second attention warrior-sorcerers, it is their personal problem, but it is not the third attention, toltec total freedom achievement, and this must be clear, to new seers.
Second attention warriors are ghost-like.
Don Juan Matus has called it Graveyard, as it implies this literal death for a sorcerer.
This is in contrast with the third attention evolutionary achievement.

[spiderlily]

That kind of energy is certainly NOT addictive to me.
For clarification,  the energy created in the heat of a battle can be envigorating and some people do find they crave that and will even create conflict in order to get their next fix of that energy.
It is easily obtainable plenty of other ways, but to some people this is the easiest, and shortest route to obtaining the energy surge.

[watergaze]

concerning IPs... Anyone can use an anonymous proxy. Any student studying in a different city or state can log in through a different city or state from their university and have a consistent IP from a different spot than their own home while being at home (it is also the case with some work places). A cell phone has a different IP than a house line. An intelligent computer eer freak I think is the colloquial term can disguise their ip to come from elsewhere consistently, say from a different country. I therefore do not put too much value on IPs.

But to ease your curiosities and not make it harder on peaceful warrior I can tell you that peacefulwarrior's and scouts' IPs are not the same. Peacefulwarrior has a consistently different IP from another country than scout. His IP is actually so consistent i would almost be suspicious hehe . If you are of a suspicious nature you will be almost no matter what the info says .

It is true that scout uses a different alias on the board, but he cant use his scout username because it was banned by LW (LW did not ban his IP address, and he could have, so i allow scout to remain here while he behaves). I would prefer it if people used consistent usernames, but many here have come to this site under aliases. Having done it yourselves you are not ones who should reproach others when they do the same thing. We can make a one nickname policy if you guys and gals like and then i can limit scout and anyone else if they come under suspicion while using other aliases and i check their ip (cause you cant expect me to check every ip against every ip..)
Also if you guys prefer scout to use his scout username i am thinking of unbanning him in due time, if he keeps behaving.

Im trying to find what all this has to do with nagualism after death... looking at all angles, tweaking my mind.. how to make a drop of something out of this for this thread, for me. why do many choose to use different nicknames and lead others by the nose concerning their identity? (unless ofc they were banned, the reason for that type of nickname change and anonymity is obvious). Is this a type of death they seek? Are we so narrow minded we cant give freedom to each other, enough freedom to let each other be whoever we want to be at a given moment in time?

1) It is harder to fight against this flow of others' minds if we conceal our identity, it is the easy way. The better way to go is to make others see you are not in a box. Being boxed in different boxes under different nicknames is not much of a solution. But it is not only others who box us in.. we make restrains for ourselves too, we put us in a box too. Different identity is easier on us to give ourselves different rules. But how strange that is, it is still us, why do we feel a different nickname gives us more freedom of this sort. It is sad thought that to a big extent it is used by many to helps them elude responsibility - that is a very cowardly approach. Warriors have to face the consequences of their actions/decisions.
2) if we cant behave and say stupid stuff then it is the easy way out to hide under a different identity when people stop listening to us. it is surely easier than to get our act together and be consistent at it enough to make people's perceptions about us change.

These two things that came to my mind now boil down to trust - we dont trust others enough and/or we dont trust ourselves. People like us should know how bad it is to box people into boxes, we want freedom from it so we should help not do it to others. Im not saying that paradigms of behaviour are not to be made and consulted when interacting with others, just that they cant be rigid, cant be boxes. need to give enough space for people to act differently, or they most probably never will - which, sadly, will confirm the validity of the box made (when the box may be what contributes to the behaviour).

[Uncle Sam]

You are sorcerers and i suggest you to focus attention on the context, information here, not on the superficial.

i.e. to bring body and energy body together, get over to the bilocation step, and then to the completion of energy - the completion of Recapitulation, this is the third attention discipline, not the second attention bias, putting too much stock into dreaming, without Recapitulation.

This is general part of Yoga, to bring the two bodies together, in contrast to the second attention bias, what is well known aberration of sorcery, the death end street.

However, death is very dependent on the state of energy/awareness, there are many qualitatively different results for a man who dies not reaching the third attention, the second attention warrior is special case there with many different (more or less exotic) ways, what can get pretty morbid.

There are even different results for the accomplished third attention warriors, if they are doing Yoga..

Naturally, i am trying to advice second attention warriors to be third attention warriors, and advice the third attention warriors with some special features of Yoga what is an upgrade for a third attention warrior, where is the joining the body and energy body the basic yoga, to reach the "Light body" (this is the third attention, "Rainbow body" is something different), how it is called in Yoga. The other ways are utilizing the Radiant energy fields of Universe related to Awareness, e.g. anchoring oneself in Dharmakaya ("Truth State", Thugdam in tibetan, what is an example of supreme Yoga achievement).

So there are numerous ways, not only for the second attention warrior-sorcerers (what are the deterrent examples of death defiers from CC books), but also in Yoga, and numerous qualitatively different states of death, qualitatively different spectrum of rebirth included.

[watergaze]

Almost missed your post unlce sam, we wrote at the same time .
Don Juan was pointing the way towards third attention achievement, completion of energy, to bring body and energy body together, to reach totality of oneself and third attention, if warrior is able to reach the completion of energy - needless to say as a result of colossal, gigantic discipline - whats is mainly involving the practice called Recapitulation.

To reach double and occupy it as QS pointed, is the step I, called bilocation, result of this discipline. But this bilocation is to be continually at two places at once, what includes capacity of the energy body (double) to be present in this world (as the Nagual). Don Genaro and Don Juan in the Tales of Power book are the exampleś for it.

The second step II, is to to join the two luminous spheres, with the two APs, together, to become one bright evolved luminous inorganic being, a departed third attention warrior. It is called Eagles gift, toltec total freedom. So there in this step is the difference inbetween the second attention warriors and the third attention warriors.

The second attention warriors cannot reach the third attention, the completion of energy, joining body (tonal) and energy body (nagual) together to become one.

The problem for this is not following the third attention course of discipline, focusing on the second attention instead - this is doing dreaming without Recapitulation, or not doing Recapitulation at all. Then there are the factors of health (physical and energetic), time and biological death.
learning on second attention is part of the process to reach third. Also i think all who have read CC know the desired goal there is third attention. DJ led the warriors under his care into dreaming for a reason, he would not lead them into a dead end, it was the way he saw that would lead to third attention for impeccable warriors. Dreaming is not the only thing he taught the warriors either. Thus, one reading the books should not conclude that one method from a palette of complimentary methods will bring them the same result... just like one color spectrum of the rainbow will not make white light.

telling people who are learning to stand up on their two feet that they should be jumping and running around is not helpful. those who are for the time being just trying to get their muscles strong enough to carry them are not helped if you make them think they have to jump (when their muscles are not developed yet).
ofc it is information as informations goes, but one needs to go one step at a time..

[spiderlily]

Nice change of thread direction.water and Sam. Impressive :-)

Sent by my Samsung Galaxy

[quantumshaman]

To the relief and delight of all concerned...
I hereby quit.
Ya'all can have the madhouse and the passive aggressives bliss ninnies and the alternyms with yoga pimples on their brains.
I have far better things to do anyway, and frankly the games around here have grown tedious.  Too bad NLW doesn't seem to care, but who can really blame him? 
I'd like to say it's been fun... but that would be a lie.  Ever since the forum became overrun with Scout1 and his sock puppets, this whole place has gone to hell.  I'm outta here!  (Let the cheering begin!)
QS

[delawaredan]

quantumshaman wrote:

To the relief and delight of all concerned...
I hereby quit.
Ya'all can have the madhouse and the passive aggressives bliss ninnies and the alternyms with yoga pimples on their brains.
I have far better things to do anyway, and frankly the games around here have grown tedious.  Too bad NLW doesn't seem to care, but who can really blame him? 
I'd like to say it's been fun... but that would be a lie.  Ever since the forum became overrun with Scout1 and his sock puppets, this whole place has gone to hell.  I'm outta here!  (Let the cheering begin!)
QSI am not happy to see you go........you add much wisdom here.       Take care friend

[Senear]

quantumshaman wrote:To the relief and delight of all concerned...

I hereby quit.

Ya'all can have the madhouse and the passive aggressives bliss ninnies and the alternyms with yoga pimples on their brains.

I have far better things to do anyway, and frankly the games around here have grown tedious.  Too bad NLW doesn't seem to care, but who can really blame him? 

I'd like to say it's been fun... but that would be a lie.  Ever since the forum became overrun with Scout1 and his sock puppets, this whole place has gone to hell.  I'm outta here!  (Let the cheering begin!)

QS

I dont think anyone is cheering. Actually if you give up on it it makes me a bid upset. I hope im not the bliss ninny although i can seem that way unless one reads my dreams or knows me at all. Ahh. I posted something of this beofre, but the irony is i was looking for a way to sahre something, so i guess ill do it here what the hell.

So, i had an interesting childhood, with magical events and such and as a teenager. I didnt welcome it though, I went out of my way being the militant atheist on the outside...hippies, christians, new agers i relished tweaking and getting under their skin. A bit obsessively. I began to soften a bit on that in college when the rational, logical thing was to not expalin things way that i couldnt explain away. I went to college in san bernardino, ca and one of my favorite things to do was SCA and Renfair...and i was a huge startrek/Babylon five fan. The oddest experience...what made me sorta accept that reality wasnt what i could find in the newspaper was this: One time i went to renfair, and i was on my own. I was in a strange shifted state...it was a warm sunny day at glen hellen pavalion, and i was coming from the far side of the little lake they had their they would put the royal barge on at renfair. There were two woman talking...i think they had their shop set up as close tot he lake as one could...a huge one. So two woman talking. and thats all i saw...i eman the crowds faded, and the sun, it was me walking and everything was dark...the only people i could see were the ladies talking on the far side of the lake, so i was sorta drawn in that direction. they looke dup and it was like we were close, but i was still far away...i shook like a dog, and the sun and noise came back...and i sheepishly went the other way. I was like 21 or 22 at the time...i was wearing a bg homemade scotish kilt at the time as i remember.

that moment...was one...i couldnt explain away. it really stuck in me, how the world faded, and it was so different, and the two ladies how they grew so real and close, when all these other people werent even shadows anymore. also, there was a particular startrek book i liked, the first edition, i had gotten it at a fthrift shop in banning ca for a quarter...and no one esle did, because they were homophobic and thought it gross. So id argue for it on usenet, because there was allot more tot he book, what it said, then people could even see. I dont like people, to be honest, i just challenge myself on that point constantly. So say....in 2007 the weirdness which ahd been going like crazy since 2000, really kicked into another level. So i thought to apply something from one of those seeing spells, quantum...and then shaman, since i had to be told about that stuff by dreams...i kind aliked ufos, (due to personal experiences) but that hippy stuff i had no stomache for...despite my experiences. So i did a search around wher ei lived...and found Qs's site. I poked around...and recognized the lady fromt he renfair....and she was the same as the author of that one...magical...startrek book! I was just wow...so excited...and i had seen her once or twice in the real world since then, never spoke, but i had a similar shift. So i got really enthusiastic but i didnt know what to say exactly, and she shut down her forums before i worked up any nerve, and that was that.

So i kinda find my way here, and shes here, so wow right? so again i want to say something but their is nothing to say and the one time i raised my head it didnt go real well. So after all this, last night i decided to look at her forums again...they are open not read only again. and they...well, they are well run, and its not the **** that seems to happen here. But the main thing, is i followed some of QS's links...and finally figured that the other lady was her partner in her business etc, (that was her distinctive business tent) and then i looked up the book again...back and forth for several hours...and...sorta...got something. So i have to say...yea shes a hard ass, actually, shes kinda like me as i really am in that lack of tollerance....and thats not a bad thing, when the stakes are so high. and it annoys me, people talking on the forums, lecturing her or others about what they need to do blah blah...like who are they, what can they do, what do they see...not what bullshit they can post. Pisses me off really. Even if i dont get mad anymore, and try to see what they are saying. I mean QS is a nagual woman, like some others here...infact, indirectly, she kinda kicked me out of my denial phase indirectly. So in a way, thats how she posts...and its a good thing, which was my real point to pw. So no, im not glad at all that she decides she needs to leave, and no one else should be either. unless they are sofakingretarded they dont know their ass from a hole in the ground. People suck. I dont say "mean people suck" just...people suck...and yea, people loose the softness in the face of that over time. thats what i think. Keep it real. So...thats what i wanted to say.

[Guest]

Quantum, I do not want you to leave either. Your voice is valued by lots of us here. So please stay.

[spiderlily]

Senear wrote:
 
 
I hope im not the bliss ninny although i can seem that way unless one reads my dreams or knows me at all.
 
I feel like this is a good point.  How do we truly know another person by a few posts he makes on a forum.  You can rest easy though, senear, I'm pretty sure I'm the bliss ninny!  lol

That was a nice post, S, very honest, way to show your heart.

[rosygyro]

in the world of internet fake avataars and personalitieshonesty could quite easily be both the best stalking as well as not doing.I o worry that some people focus too much on prjecting an image in order to stalk.the deeper nature of the truth is such that people who have been stalked impeccably were never lied toinstead the illusion between combatants is self imposed... the nagual in between

[watergaze]

("I o worry that some people focus too much on prjecting an image in order to stalk.")
they/most project an image in order to satisfy themselves..

"the deeper nature of the truth is such that people who have been stalked impeccably were never lied to" *nod*

[spiderlily]

watergaze wrote"I o worry that some people focus too much on prjecting an image in order to stalk.")
they/most project an image in order to satisfy themselves..

*
Agree. Much of the behaviour that.is written off as stalking (others) is nothing more than self importance and ego doing the usual dance.

Sent by my Samsung Galaxy

[delawaredan]

We would not need to "stalk" behind various screen names if everything we said and did was impeccable.   This whole stalking excuse is BS.    Why would anyone need to change their screen name if they stood behind their words and actions.   If you are ashamed of your actions, you may need to start fresh, but a more warrior like way would to be up front and not hide behind a new name.

[spiderlily]

delawaredan wrote:We would not need to "stalk" behind various screen names if everything we said and did was impeccable.   This whole stalking excuse is BS.    Why would anyone need to change their screen name if they stood behind their words and actions 
Personally I change my screen name quite often for a number.of.personal reasons. Not because I am ashamed, though.


I agree that.stalking others is BS and I'm glad to hear you say this!

I always say if you want to stalk someone, stalk the self! self needs ruthless stalking more than anyone else does!


Sent by my Samsung Galaxy

[delawaredan]

spiderlily wrote:
delawaredan wrote:

We would not need to "stalk" behind various screen names if everything we said and did was impeccable.   This whole stalking excuse is BS.    Why would anyone need to change their screen name if they stood behind their words and actions 
Personally I change my screen name quite often for a number.of.personal reasons. Not because I am ashamed, though.
I agree that.stalking others is BS and I'm glad to hear you say this!
I always say if you want to stalk someone, stalk the self! self needs ruthless stalking more than anyone else does!
Sent by my Samsung Galaxy
Yes - but you are honest about your name change.   There is nothing wrong with changing names, especially if it does help you stalk yourself (good point!).   But when someone justifies lying or hiding behind different names to stalk others..they are full of sh**.

[cabbageman]

I just posted something. Did someone delete my post?