Perspective

[ARNWAY]

I always had the gut feeling that allot of members try and distort the true meaning on nagualism either because of there misfortune of not attaining it or
because they would like to see its demise, more so on other sites.




That's why I started slinging mud because I first visited S.Reaction and P.P. and was being pounced on by "know-it-alls", 2 years ago for the
first time.




I see allot of "talking the talk" and hardly ever "walking the walk" and when someone walks the walk you have people there to discredit the
whole notion of acting the warriors way.

[dreamways]

grandspeculator wrote:

What is utterly ridiculous is that you accuse me of being anti-nagual... that's a joke! I'll repeat it... I'am ULTRA-NAGUAL... do you get it?


Nope, I don't get it.


grandspeculator wrote:

The Death Defier didn't "modify" them... He/She invite them to become more indulgent and they agreed to it. They could say no, but except for
Carlos no nagual of that line ever said "NO" to a gift from the Death Defier. And even in his "no" he was very indulgent.


I'm not giving you the benefit of the doubt because you are not giving them the benefit of the doubt. I don't see any core diffence between you
and Ghostdog.

[grandspeculator]

Think of me whatever you want. Who cares? I'am just saying what I know and/or speculate... it's all the same anyway. if someone dislikes what I
write/say, someone will **** about it.




A nagual would not care at all what an **** like me says about them. Why do you care what I say of them?




If there is a definition of indulgence is "actions that prevent us from being free". From self-importance, passing by lazyness, seeking excitement,
fame, mundane or subtle power, pleasure, to much fucking and plain ignorance, etc... it's all indulging.




If naguals are not free, they are indulgent. It can't be more simple than that.




Ultra-Nagual means that I'am for nagualism but I'am also beyond it, because I want freedom: real, tangible, extreme freedom.




And THAT the nagual path can't give me. Other paths can do it, so follow them also. I take the
good things of every path I learn of.




Nagualism is, nevertheless, extremely helpful. For that I'am grateful. Hell... I been saying over and over how much I love your contributions and you still
think that I'am anti-nagual? ***... perhaps all this explaining is useless.




Time will tell.

[dreamways]

grandspeculator wrote:

Ultra-Nagual means that I'am for nagualism but I'am also beyond it, because I want freedom: real, tangible, extreme freedom.


And THAT the nagual path can't give me.


You are a real, tangible ****, that's for sure.

[dreamways]

ARNWAY wrote:

I always had the gut feeling that allot of members try and distort the true meaning on nagualism either because of there misfortune of not attaining it or
because they would like to see its demise, more so on other sites.




That's why I started slinging mud because I first visited S.Reaction and P.P. and was being pounced on by "know-it-alls", 2 years ago for the
first time.




I see allot of "talking the talk" and hardly ever "walking the walk" and when someone walks the walk you have people there to discredit
the whole notion of acting the warriors way.

Here is a vivid example of the type of **** you are describing:


grandspeculator wrote:

Ultra-Nagual means that I'am for nagualism but I'am also beyond it, because I want freedom: real, tangible, extreme freedom.


And THAT the nagual path can't give me.

[grandspeculator]

Your contributions coming from your experiences in the inorganic's realm are still great... keep them coming.

[dreamways]

Nagualism, for me is the only path. Be it right, wrong, good, bad, ugly, beautiful, old or modern, it is where you will find me, the only place you'll
find me.

[ARNWAY]

I don't exactly know how Kudos works as far as the amount you attain them.




When you go to one particular site and you see someones Avatar and the amount of kudos is it just from that site or is it the accumulation that someone
attained in there user name or I.P. address and carry them and carry them with you where ever you go?




Does anyone Know?

[grandspeculator]

Kudos is a sort of congrats that a single person can get from other users. You can only get one kudos per other user and it's a form of "popularity
meter" in the yuku communities.




There are now several forms of kudos, according to number of posts, friends, etc...




Because my account is relatively new I started with a hundred kudos. Before one started with zero kudos.

[Bob May]

Hi dreamways,




"His goal for Carlos was for him to become a "man of knowledge." And not become trapped by either the world of normal men or the world of
sorcerers. Both were equally illusion.

How are you "taking this" from Don Juan? Please provide the quote in which Don Juan says "sorcery is a trap". He never said that."




I could be wrong on that as far as his exact wording. I believe it is one of the earlier books. But that is my "perspective". And this is the
perspective thread, isn't it?




But, I'll tell you what. I will find the quote that led me to this conclusion if you can tell me what the "tyrant" is.

[dreamways]

Bob May wrote:

I could be wrong on that as far as his exact wording. I believe it is one of the earlier books. But that is my "perspective". And this is the
perspective thread, isn't it?




But, I'll tell you what. I will find the quote that led me to this conclusion if you can tell me what the "tyrant" is.




Exactly, it is your perspective. This is what I'm getting at, that anti-nagualist people like you and speculator try to pawn off your own perspectives
as something that Castaneda said. It's because you are lying sacks of ****, or "tyrants." if you prefer.

[Hawkeye Crow]

Sometimes I 'jump' too quickly . Offending is not my intent. I congratulate those who able to bypass being offended.




I agree that to be a Seer is to go between the perceptions of this world and that of sorcery. At the same time , it seems that one must first be a sorcerer to
do that , and there are sorcery teachings in the books. Once I found an exact definition of what sorcery is , I was opened up to a view of many effects that
are sorcery : stage magicians , gypsies , politicians , and others , all manipulate perception , although some may not realize that is what they are doing ,
or its operation and effects in the second attention. Juan matus did say that our fellow humans are the 'real sorcerers! True sorcerers are practitioners
of the principles of sorcery. They may read Tarot or chart astrology , but see that as a tool , only.(my opinion)




My first impression of sorcery has been that as tool , used as described on 'the path with heart ' , a person could be more successful at parrying the
slings and arrows of the outrageous fortune that we know as life in this world. That is , to become an expert stalker , and not be like a leaf in the wind.




Conventional wisdom has always claimed that we find the goodness in our fellow humans; love thy neighbor , do unto others and so on. That path never did a
thing for me , try as I might. Once I accepted the idea of a 'predatory universe' , my world-view shifted , and that my tendency to openness and
innocence was suicidal. This world really is a jungle. Therefore , the wise warrior will learn hunting and stalking to survive. He will acknowledge his
magical side and allow that 'second attention' to aid him in survival and well-being. Sorcery is a tool for doing this. It is a beginning. All of
the other principles , losing self importance, mind silence , fluidity , are the ways to move forward from that beginning , into awareness. The
Bodhisattva , a worthy goal.




Then , there is 'body knowledge' . This stumps me , as it seems that to do it , I must have a teacher to lead me through it, or perform it upon me,
as there is indeed no rational way to attain it. No tech manual.




Another thing : our feelings, our emotions , seem to be the source of AP movement , and to learn their purpose and use is a real art.




Is it possible that I am fixated on Nagualism? Perhaps , but I don't fret about it much , I take it day by day , soaking in it like a balm.

[dreamways]

Hawkeye Crow wrote:

The Bodhisattva , a worthy goal.

What I have learned, from my own dreaming experiences, is that everyone on this earth that finds themselves "connected" to nagualism, are actually
the beneficiaries of a single Bodhisattva, the one who showed them how to get here, to a life on earth. The process is intended jointly, by both benefactor
and benficiary, through a series of movements that are carried out within a specific location of the inorganic realm. They simply call the movements,
"dance on the earth", and it is done in groups. The last thing a sorcerer remembers is the sound of feet stepping in unison, it sounds like
"marching", and it still echoes in their mind after they are born.

[Bob May]

I have accidentally given kudos a few times.


I press the button to see what it means and then the person has an undeserved kudo.


They should label the button undeserved kudos.

[Guest]

LOL Bob that is funny, I might have done that too...I am such a
clumsy when it comes to yuku.

[Bob May]

So, you don't know what the tyrant is?




Anybody out there want to help him?

[grandspeculator]

I gave Dreamways a kudos...

[grandspeculator]

A Tyrant is an negative influence coming from a person that enables a sober nagual to take his stalking to new levels. In nagualism it's exposing yourself
to these persons in a calculated risk to get into a learning-how-to-stalk situation.




They are called petty tyrants because the human tyrants are an small menace in comparison with the dangers of the subtle realms.




Don Juan had a real petty tyrant... now it's more difficult to find them.

[Bob May]

Hi Bob,




"Sometimes I 'jump' too quickly . Offending is not my intent. I congratulate those who able to bypass being offended."




To bypass being offended is what I see as being a warrior. Emotions keep us bound to the body and also keep the body in charge of us.




"Once I accepted the idea of a 'predatory universe' , my world-view shifted , and that my tendency to openness and innocence was suicidal. This
world really is a jungle. Therefore , the wise warrior will learn hunting and stalking to survive."




Yea, but don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. There are good people out there and good in everyone.


Hunting and stalking are ok. But there is also "wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove." and "turning the other cheek."




The stalker is constantly on the offensive or defensive. The tightness in the solar plexus is a constant for some people. I would rather have a broken nose
than live like that again. A nose heals. Aggravation grows.


We can walk away from a fight or argument and forget it, we can let it go and enjoy life.


We can harbor grudges or peace.






"Then , there is 'body knowledge' . This stumps me , as it seems that to do it , I must have a teacher to lead me through it, or perform it upon
me, as there is indeed no rational way to attain it. No tech manual."




Try the Twelve Steps to Spiritual Enlightenment by Israel Regardie.




"Another thing : our feelings, our emotions , seem to be the source of AP movement , and to learn their purpose and use is a real art."




There are emotions that weaken us like embarassment, fear, anger etc. These should be at least under our control if not done away with.


What I have found in body awareness meditation is that emotions are just a feeling in the body. We get that feeling and we go into that emotion. Just like
Pavlov's dog. By realizing "we are not our bodies" we become aware of this and of the power we have to turn them off. Just as easily as turning
off a light switch. The only way that I know of to come to this realization that "we are not our bodies" is through the discipline of body awareness
meditation.




So feelings can be useful tools. They bring back memories good or bad. To remember a "feeling" is a way to repeat a state of mind and or spiritual
experience.


Other feelings keep us tied to our habitual emotions and keep us tied to self importance, rage and jealosy, etc.




Body awareness (the ability to sit for long periods without moving a muscle) is the first step in learning to meditate. The second is mind awareness (at first
it is similar to recapitulation later it grows into the ability to sit for hours with but one subject or thoughtin your mind.)


My teacher used o say you needed to master both of these techniques in order to begin to meditate.


I believe any progress in either is very beneficial and the results in the attempt are almost immediately apparent.


Even a half hour a day is a big help.

[Bob May]

"I gave Dreamways a kudos... "




Yea, so did I.

[Guest]

Me too, I like Dreamways.

[dreamways]

Bob May wrote:

"I gave Dreamways a kudos... "




Yea, so did I.


Dreamways likes kudos sacrificed in his honor. A bountiful harvest
and abundant fertility will be bestowed upon you.

[Hawkeye Crow]

Early on , don Juan described the possibility of not even being in the vicinity of something like that. Yet, the Petty Tyrant is a presence, from Hitler to
W Bush , to the workplace. Wisdom , Stalking , the Second Attention, are all tools the warrior needs to parry these roadblocks. Man , I would really just
prefer to be unavailable , invisible , a Sorcerer-Seer!




I give everyone , their kids , their dogs and cats , Kudos. Hell , I'll give myself one . So Be It!




Speaking of stalking, does anyone recall that story about the Nagual Julian , where he had these three (?) couriers impersonating each other? What an amazing
feat! I get shivers and belly laughs just considering such a stunt.

[grandspeculator]

Quite a feat... that was some serious mind-fucking.

[dreamways]

Hawkeye Crow wrote:

Man , I would really just prefer to be unavailable , invisible , a Sorcerer-Seer!


Kind of like an inorganic being? You're in luck, that position is open!